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Boeing Surveillance Plane Found Not Effective for Mission
Seattle Times ^ | Jan 23, 2014 3:16 PM ET | Tony Capaccio

Posted on 01/24/2014 10:03:13 AM PST by maddog55

A new Boeing Co. (BA) surveillance aircraft deployed to Japan last month isn’t yet effective at hunting submarines or performing reconnaissance over large areas -- two of its main missions, the Pentagon’s weapons tester found.

Flaws in the $35 billion program included the plane’s radar performance, sensor integration and data transfer, Michael Gilmore, chief of the Pentagon testing office, wrote in his annual report on major weapons, which has yet to be released. He said the new P-8A Poseidon exhibited “all of the major deficiencies” identified in earlier exercises when subjected to more stressful realistic combat testing from September 2012 to March 2013.

“Many of these deficiencies” led Gilmore to determine that the P-8A “is not effective for the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance mission and is not effective for wide area anti-submarine search,” he said in a section of the report obtained by Bloomberg News. The Navy plans to conduct additional testing “to verify the correction of some deficiencies,” he wrote.

Gilmore’s conclusions suggest the initial aircraft in the program -- which packs a modified Boeing 737-800 with radar and sensors -- aren’t ready for deployment. Among its primary missions is tracking Chinese submarines. Six of the planes have been deployed to Japan supporting 7th Fleet maritime patrol operations at Naval Air Facility Atsugi as part of the U.S. strategic pivot to the Asia-Pacific region.

(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; Japan; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; boeing; miltech; navair; surveillance
P3 was far superior and still is. Had the Navy done the right thing and gone with a new P-3 and just used the current system and capabilities it would be a far better platform at 1/3d the cost.

Navy's Take on P-8: Vice Admiral Robert Thomas, commander of the 7th Fleet, said in a Jan. 10 press release that the aircraft “represents a significant improvement” over the older P-3 Orion from Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT), “providing the opportunity to detect, track and report on more targets than ever before.”

1 posted on 01/24/2014 10:03:13 AM PST by maddog55
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To: maddog55

Yeah. A 737 is perfect for a low and slow long loiter time mission.


2 posted on 01/24/2014 10:07:56 AM PST by null and void (We need to shake this snowglobe up.)
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To: maddog55

Deploy first — then verify that functional requirements have been achieved.
Brilliant.


3 posted on 01/24/2014 10:11:00 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (Anti-Complacency League! Baby!)
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To: null and void

“Low and slow”

I wonder how much more it costs to fly a 737 for a mission than a P-3 with it’s outboard engines idled?


4 posted on 01/24/2014 10:12:15 AM PST by maine yankee (I got my Governor at 'Marden's')
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To: maddog55

” it would be a far better platform at 1/3d the cost. “

It’s not about money. Money is irrelevant. Capability is irrelevant. It’s about politics. Boeing has more pocket Senators than the completion.


5 posted on 01/24/2014 10:14:24 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: null and void

Radar for a sub searcher? It needs sonar

but, wide range, deep monitoring is being done by satellites and sosus


6 posted on 01/24/2014 10:22:00 AM PST by edcoil ( "All men's miseries derive from not being able to sit in a quiet room alone." - Blaise Pascal)
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To: edcoil
"but, wide range, deep monitoring is being done by satellites and sosus"

Just upgrade the ARGO buoys.

7 posted on 01/24/2014 10:31:16 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: Gen.Blather
Boeing has more pocket Senators than the completion.

Sure you weren't posting to the thread: 35 Hilarious Chinese Translation Fails?

8 posted on 01/24/2014 10:33:30 AM PST by xone
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To: Gen.Blather

It seems to meet every milestone to get funded it just doesn’t work.

A lot like the welfare program.. they don’t work either so just spend money.


9 posted on 01/24/2014 10:36:29 AM PST by maddog55
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To: maddog55

Hopefully just teething issues.


10 posted on 01/24/2014 10:38:42 AM PST by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: maddog55

Could be ‘playing possum’, except that under bo, he spills his guts on all our capabilities.


11 posted on 01/24/2014 10:43:16 AM PST by Scrambler Bob ( Concerning bo -- that refers to the president. If I capitalize it, I mean the dog.)
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To: maddog55

Who remembers the first competition to replace the P-3? Boeing proposed a 757-based platform, McDonnell Douglas proposed an MD-90-based platform, and Lockheed won the contract in 1988, with a stretched P-3, called the P-7.

Lockheed blew it, though, as they had made serious weight miscalculations. The program went over budget and the Navy cancelled it in 1990.


12 posted on 01/24/2014 10:50:13 AM PST by kerosene
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To: xone

Sorry, meant competition. And this IS my native language. (Sigh.)


13 posted on 01/24/2014 10:54:07 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: Gen.Blather

I read it the first time as ‘competition’, then saw it wasn’t, the brain made the connection, just a little hump bust.


14 posted on 01/24/2014 11:14:25 AM PST by xone
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To: Gen.Blather

Yeah, we’ll cut COLA for vets, saving $600 million a year, so the Pentagon can have its $35 Billion P-3 replacement...


15 posted on 01/24/2014 11:14:35 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Liberals are like locusts...)
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To: edcoil

From what I understand, sonar is not a good option unless you are under the surface of the water. If the sonar is on an airplane, that is not a good option.


16 posted on 01/24/2014 11:57:43 AM PST by DennisR (Look around - God gives countless, indisputable clues that He does, indeed, exist.)
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To: maddog55

It is amazing how stupid our > O-6 officers can be to parrot vendor provided PowerPoint presentations.


17 posted on 01/24/2014 12:04:05 PM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: null and void

I was involved with some aspect of the low and slow testing...can’t really say more.

But if you reread the article it doesn’t seem to be the aircraft that’s failing miserably but rather the onboard systems. Although, I will concede the article is a little cryptic in that regard.


18 posted on 01/24/2014 12:09:43 PM PST by Axeslinger (Where has my country gone?)
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To: DennisR
Sonobuoys
19 posted on 01/24/2014 12:40:54 PM PST by logi_cal869
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To: null and void
Yeah. A 737 is perfect for a low and slow long loiter time mission.

Yes, but propellers aren't pretty or cool.

20 posted on 01/24/2014 1:40:57 PM PST by OldMissileer
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To: OldMissileer
Yeah. A 737 is perfect for a low and slow long loiter time mission.


Not as low and slow as this.

21 posted on 01/24/2014 5:30:05 PM PST by itsahoot (It is not so much that history repeats, but that human nature does not change.)
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To: maddog55

Field experience only CONFIRMED the shortcomings found in pre-deployment testing.

“He said the new P-8A Poseidon exhibited “all of the major deficiencies” identified in earlier exercises when subjected to more stressful realistic combat testing from September 2012 to March 2013.”

They already KNEW this platform is deficient. Shouldn’t somebody go to Leavenworth for a very long visit and take their pocket politician with them?

What good does it do to say anything. Only the people in the right and exposing these crimes are persecuted. Nobody is prosecuted.

$35 Billion for a POS system and the SOBs cut $600 Million from established veterans programs. Prove somebody’s palms aren’t being greased.


22 posted on 01/25/2014 11:45:36 AM PST by Sequoyah101
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To: Sequoyah101

Nobody goes to jail in these defense programs, they get promoted. This aircraft has had major problems since it’s inception, failed miserably throughout testing and when requirements can’t be met, they just drop the requirement. End result as you state is a POS aircraft that can’t do it’s job and puts people at risk either in the aircraft or the people they are supposed to be protecting on the ground or on ships.


23 posted on 01/25/2014 2:20:15 PM PST by maddog55
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To: edcoil

“Radar for a sub searcher? It needs sonar”

or MAD. To operate MAD on an aircraft the aircraft has to fly low. Therefore no MAD on the P-8...


24 posted on 01/27/2014 12:18:50 AM PST by MHalblaub ("Easy my friends, when it comes to the point it is only a drawing made by a non believing Dane...")
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