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British Museum: Prototype for Noah's Ark was round
The Associated Press ^ | January 24, 2014 | Jill Lawless

Posted on 01/25/2014 2:08:46 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

It was a vast boat that saved two of each animal and a handful of humans from a catastrophic flood.

But forget all those images of a long vessel with a pointy bow - the original Noah's Ark, new research suggests, was round.

A recently deciphered 4,000-year-old clay tablet from ancient Mesopotamia - modern-day Iraq - reveals striking new details about the roots of the Old Testament tale of Noah....

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: archaeology; beforenoah; beforethebible; bible; catastrophism; coracle; cuneiform; epigraphyandlanguage; godsgravesglyphs; greatflood; irvingfinkel; noah; noahsark

1 posted on 01/25/2014 2:08:46 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
This is gonna mess up Bill Cosby's Noah routine:

He'llhave to change from:

"Right ... what's a cubit?"

To:

"You're asking me if I know what Pi is, Lord? Of course I do - Pi 'R' round ..."

2 posted on 01/25/2014 2:22:38 AM PST by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Who knows what the shape of the ark was. God saved only 8 people. I wonder how many people were killed off. I have heard some people estimate as many as 150 million. Who knows for sure, but I think it was a large number. No one should ever say that God does not get a little hot under the collar once in a while. He does.


3 posted on 01/25/2014 2:23:12 AM PST by Mark17 (Chicago Blackhawks: Stanley Cup champions 2010, 2013. Vietnam Veteran, 70-71 Msgt USAF, ret)
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To: Mark17
Not only does God get hot under the collar, but his Son does so as well.

Whenever I hear the phrase "What would Jesus do?" I recall a bull whip and overturned tables.

4 posted on 01/25/2014 2:37:28 AM PST by N. Theknow (Kennedys-Can't drive, can't ski, can't fly, can't skipper a boat-But they know what's best for you.)
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Thanks 2ndDivisionVet.

5 posted on 01/25/2014 3:59:46 AM PST by SunkenCiv (;http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Old bar bet:

How many animals of each kind did Noah take on the ark with him?

A) 0
B) 2
C) 7
D) 14
E) All the above


6 posted on 01/25/2014 4:07:05 AM PST by Boojum
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Amazing that err they don’t realize who Moses is. Moses educated in the court of Pharaoh had access to much better documents. It is possible that there were people around who knew Shum Japheth and Ham who educated Moses.


7 posted on 01/25/2014 4:09:38 AM PST by the_daug
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To: Boojum

I think the Bible gives dimensions which make it a kind of rectangular box.

A British engineer used the dimensions to build the Great Eastern in the 19th century, IIRC.

But it is noteworthy that almost all cultures worldwide have a Flood story, with the same general details (suggesting a common origin).


8 posted on 01/25/2014 4:10:10 AM PST by CondorFlight (I)
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To: the_daug

http://mobile.askmoses.com/article/679,2107657/Timeline-of-Jewish-History.html


9 posted on 01/25/2014 4:18:59 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Makes sense to me.

The Ark wasn’t built to navigate anything, just float. A round vessel would float very well. With no bow & stern, I would think the rocking motion would be minimized.


10 posted on 01/25/2014 4:24:32 AM PST by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They might have used a replica of God’s haircut bowl....


11 posted on 01/25/2014 4:51:34 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: Mister Da

The dimensions are in the bible, it wasn’t round, they can research all they like, but if they researched the source they’d quickly see how it was shaped.


12 posted on 01/25/2014 4:58:11 AM PST by Bulwyf
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To: CondorFlight
I think the Bible gives dimensions which make it a kind of rectangular box.

It does. We have specific instructions in God's Word.

It will be 300 cubits long (137.16 m, 450 ft), 50 wide (22.86 m, 75 ft), and 30 high (13.716 m, 45 ft); it will have a roof "finished to a cubit upward", and an entrance on the side.

13 posted on 01/25/2014 5:00:20 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: Mister Da; All

Considering Noah was before Abram(Abraham) and Abraham was Mesopotamian, I would say it’s a good bet Noah is a Mesopotamian story. The Gilgamesh connection is quite plausible to anyone who thinks.
A round ark? Considering how many fat, middle aged men enjoy the stability of floating in an inner tube in the pool with a drink in one hand and a cigar in the other, I would also say that’s additional evidence in support.


14 posted on 01/25/2014 5:04:28 AM PST by j.argese (Not anymore!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What does the Biblical text say?


15 posted on 01/25/2014 5:15:10 AM PST by SoFloFreeper
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To: Mark17
"Who knows what the shape of the ark was."

"This is how you shall make it: the length of the ark three hundred cubits, its breadth fifty cubits, its height thirty cubits." Genesis 6:15

Length, breadth, height...those with a rudimentary understanding of geometry know what class of shapes are so defined. It is NOT circular, it is a rectangular solid.

We know this because God said so. And God incarnate (Jesus Christ) confirms in the NT the truth about Noah. The ark saved the faithful few, and when the son of man returns he will save the believing few then. (Matt 24:37ff, Luke 17:26ff)

16 posted on 01/25/2014 6:02:40 AM PST by nonsporting
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

"Back to work boys. Break time is over. Oh, and Irving Finkel has a small re-design
he wants to discuss so we may be a little late getting off work tonight."

17 posted on 01/25/2014 6:31:10 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Keep a simple manner for a happy life :o)
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To: SkyPilot

You need to reread the Bible. That ark is completely wrong. We’ve been tricked for decades by artists who mis-imaged the ark.

Noah’s ark is all black and tight as a drum. There isn’t an upper deck at all. It’s lit by a tsohar.


18 posted on 01/25/2014 6:35:03 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
You need to reread the Bible.

Let us do it together:

"14 Make yourself an ark of gofer-wood; you are to make the ark with rooms and cover it with pitch both outside and inside. 15 Here is how you are to build it: the length of the ark is to be 450 feet, its width seventy-five feet and its height forty-five feet. 16 You are to make an opening for daylight in the ark eighteen inches below its roof. Put a door in its side; and build it with lower, second and third decks."

Genesis 6: 14-16


19 posted on 01/25/2014 7:18:49 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: nonsporting
Length, breadth, height...those with a rudimentary understanding of geometry know what class of shapes are so defined. It is NOT circular, it is a rectangular solid.

Thank you. Why people wish to dispute this is beyond comprehension.

Maybe next we can debate if God really meant "2" when he said two of each kind of animal should enter the ark. Maybe He really meant "5"?

20 posted on 01/25/2014 7:21:13 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"But forget all those images of a long vessel with a pointy bow - the original Noah's Ark, new research suggests, was round. "

Hmm, who to believe---the British Museum or the Bible?

Yeah, I think I have the answer.

21 posted on 01/25/2014 7:22:30 AM PST by CatherineofAragon ((Support Christian white males----the architects of the jewel known as Western Civilization.))
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To: SkyPilot

“Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.”


22 posted on 01/25/2014 7:23:58 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: CondorFlight
But it is noteworthy that almost all cultures worldwide have a Flood story, with the same general details (suggesting a common origin).

Worldwide is right, not just Eurasia. Flood story exists in ancient south american legends too. Since South America was isolated from the Eurasian landmass for all of recorded history, this is either amazing coincidence or the flood story goes back way longer than most would imagine. Or as a third alternative, it originated in Mesopotamia and people of Eurasia had means of spreading their civilization and their oral traditions to the Americas a few thousand years ago then lost it. Pick your poison: coincidence, pre-historic origin, or everything we know about the ancient world is wrong.

23 posted on 01/25/2014 7:59:49 AM PST by pepsi_junkie (Who is John Galt?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

How would a 450 foot long vessel of any shape stay together without any nails or metal fasteners in raging flood waters?


24 posted on 01/25/2014 11:33:05 AM PST by gandalftb (Go OK State Cowboys!!)
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To: SkyPilot

Good start, but let’s go back to the drawing board. Humans and animals live in the 3rd, not the 2nd dimension. So following your logic we would have a cube if we followed the exact dimensions. Clearly, the directions contained within the written word of the Bible are insufficient to build an ark. At least not the kind we’ve been groomed to believe via artist misrepresentation.

Verse 6:14 contains the following unknowns or poorly translated words:

Gopher-wood, Gopher is an unknown type of tree (When I say unknown, even Hebrew scholars are uncertain);

ark, ark is another unusual word it means chest or box, but more likely basket and one stable enough to float life in it as Moses’ “basket” is the same word, perhaps implying a curved lozenge-like basket with a lid;

rooms, this word is nearly always poorly translated as it really means nest/cells/cubicles (cubicles in the sense of the kind found on an antique roll top desk).

One word is absolutely clear and that is “pitch” or tar. The verb “cover over” gives reference to the Atonement and sin offering at the altar. It is a very interesting word choice, no?

The pitch is to cover the entire Ark inside and out. At the very least the Ark is black on the outside, not raw or stained wood as shown in photos.

In verse 15, the word you highlight as “length” is used in reference to the tabernacle, the Hebrew desert temple. It also implies forbearance and self-restraint. Interesting, no?

Long/length is something at its greatest dimension, so that the Ark image God must have shown Noah could end at a point or a semi-major axis like an ellipse. The width being the semi-minor axis. A lozenge-shape would float on or under the water, depending on the load, and would be pitched inside and out, forming a water-tight seal.

What about interior light?

The phrase in verse 16 translated as “opening for daylight” is very bad Hebrew. It is most likely a lighted or miraculously illuminated stone. Challôwn stated later in chpt. 8 is the accurate Hebrew for window. If it hung from a roof, then it would be a roof 18” above the gunwale, if the ark had a toe kick or a deck. I don’t believe it had a deck at all. The Bible gives no evidence that Noah walked outside or around a deck on the Ark.

The opening needn’t be a regular door either. Placing it directly in the side doesn’t make sense, nautically speaking, but it might if it were the top hatch on a lozenge-shaped craft. It’s the same with the levels. Your translation calls them decks, but that word doesn’t appear in the Hebrew. It does say depth, beside or another or second, and third which can also mean 1/3.

Take a look here: http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/6-16.htm

It’s a great resource so as not to misinterpret what the Scriptures really say. I believed just like you that the Ark looked like it’s been drawn or made over the years. Then I found out the Bible says different, when I researched it for myself.

The most shocking thing is the pitch. It’s all black all over.


25 posted on 01/25/2014 1:40:06 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: nonsporting; Mark17; SoFloFreeper

Nonsense see my account here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3115493/posts?page=25#25

The Bible doesn’t say what you’ve been lead to believe it says. Take a look at the original Hebrew here:

http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/6-14.htm

http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/6-15.htm

http://biblehub.com/text/genesis/6-16.htm

Click through on the STR (Strong’s) word # to see the true definitions of the words. It’s a great resource to use if you’re really interested in understanding the Bible.

Keep in mind that length, width and height only determine its maximums, there’s no reason to believe that the text is sufficient to build the Ark. God must have shown Noah something in Noah’s own mind, not contained in the Bible.


26 posted on 01/25/2014 1:45:12 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: CatherineofAragon; Bulwyf; 2ndDivisionVet

I believe the Bible and it isn’t in conflict with the coracles theory. It was likely lozenge-shaped.

See here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3115493/posts?page=25#25


27 posted on 01/25/2014 1:49:29 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
It was likely lozenge-shaped.

Lol. Make up your mind. That is not "round." That is a rectangle with rounded corners.

I guess the Tent of Meeting was also shaped like this?

What about the Ark of the Covenant? The Holy of Holies? The Temple itself?

All of these have specific dimensions defined in scripture. Width and Height by definition do not define something "round" as described in the article above.

28 posted on 01/25/2014 2:20:32 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: 1010RD
The most shocking thing is the pitch. It’s all black all over.

No argument there.

29 posted on 01/25/2014 2:22:34 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: SkyPilot

The article is poorly written, which is not surprising given the quality of government education.

A coracle is not necessarily round:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Coracles&FORM=HDRSC2

I suspect your top image is the closest one to the actual Ark seen from above. How about the fact that it’s black all round? That blew my mind. I’d always believed those drawings, etc. They’re totally off on that score.


30 posted on 01/25/2014 2:23:55 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
I too Googled "coracles" and saw those.

The ratio of the ark of length to width is 6:1. So it had to have had a rectangular shape. However, I see your point on the shape you envision and agree the article is either very poorly written or misleading. I have seen several of these article on the web, and none of them even mention the description in Genesis. The comments from people are shocking. Most of them don't even know that we know what the approximately length of cubit is/was.

Good link on the Hebrew - I must learn more about that.

31 posted on 01/25/2014 2:35:04 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: 1010RD
God must have shown Noah something in Noah’s own mind, not contained in the Bible.

Possibly. I do not underestimate Noah's (and others) ability to grasp difficult concepts. I once read a book called "Did Genesis man conquer space" that was interesting to say the least. Other than that, I can not read Hebrew. I won't say it's all Greek to me, because that is the New Testament , but Hebrew looks like chicken scratches to me.

32 posted on 01/25/2014 3:33:57 PM PST by Mark17 (Chicago Blackhawks: Stanley Cup champions 2010, 2013. Vietnam Vet 70-71 Msgt US Air Force, retired)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

These idiots need to just go up and look at the Ark, it is definitely not round!


33 posted on 01/25/2014 3:49:51 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Mark17

>> “Who knows what the shape of the ark was” <<

.
Anyone who goes up and looks at it.

Clue: its not round.


34 posted on 01/25/2014 3:51:48 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: SkyPilot

Thanks for sharing. The amount of ignorance in the world is shocking. I think, as FReepers, we don’t realize how much we know or learn here versus the average “educated” person, let alone the average American.

I am often stunned at how ignorant young people are. A fellow I know flew jets for the East German Air Force. Kids often ask him if he served in WW1 or 2. Take care.


35 posted on 01/25/2014 5:21:36 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Mark17

That’s why I use those sources and even Strong’s isn’t the best. You might like, at least for the OT, the Jewish Study Bible. http://www.amazon.com/The-Jewish-Study-Bible-Publication/dp/0195297512/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1390699378&sr=8-1&keywords=Jewish+study+bible

It’s a fascinating read and clarifies the Jewish interpretation and view of the OT scriptures. It also show just how apostate they were by the time Jesus Christ arrived. At the same time, they got first crack at it and were God’s special people. They certainly can pick a point apart. Have you ever heard the joke: when two Jews are arguing there are three opinions?


36 posted on 01/25/2014 5:24:04 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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