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150 Years Later, Floridians are Still Fighting over the Civil War
AllGov ^ | January 22, 2014 | Noel Brinkerhoff, Danny Biederman

Posted on 01/25/2014 6:38:12 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo

Florida’s first state park has become ground zero for a raging political fight to establish a monument honoring Union Army soldiers who died during the Civil War.

The three-acre Olustee Battlefield Historic State Park currently includes three monuments honoring Confederate soldiers who died fighting to secede from the country.

The park, first established in 1912, was the site of Florida’s largest and bloodiest Civil War battle that killed 3,000 Union and 1,000 Confederate soldiers. It occurred on February 20, 1864, and raged on for four hours.

With no marker respecting the sacrifice of so many northern men, the Florida chapter of the Sons of Union Veterans of the Civil War asked the state parks department last year for permission to place an obelisk to honor Union soldiers.

State officials agreed that the park needed some historic balance. They held a public hearing about the new monument and chose a location within the park for it.

But those actions angered the Sons of Confederate Veterans, which called the proposed monument a “Darth Vader-esque obscene obsidian obelisk.”

Opponents enlisted the help of key politicians, like State Representative Dennis Baxley, the Republican chairman of the House Judiciary Committee and a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, to stop the addition to the park. “There is a sacred trust that's being violated when you go in and change an historic site from the way it was commemorated by those who established (it),” Baxley told the News Service of Florida.

“Putting a Union monument at Olustee would be like placing a memorial to Jane Fonda at the entrance to the Vietnam memorial,” added Leon Duke, a wounded veteran.

Longtime historical park exhibitor Mike Farrell, who is a descendent of a Union soldier who died at Olustee, said that park visitors often seek out a Union memorial at the site. “I always have the visiting public approach me and ask me where the Union monument is on the battlefield, and I often tell them, ‘There isn't any,’” he told the News Service. “I'm not talking about…a cemetery marker to the dead. What I'm talking about is a battlefield monument.”

Ancestors of Charles Custer fought on both sides of the war, and he favors a Union monument. “There were twice as many Union casualties there as Confederate,” he told The New York Times. “They fought. They bled. And they are really not recognized anywhere.”

The battle of Olustee is reenacted each year, making it one of the Southeast’s largest Civil War re-enactments.

Although it was not nearly as large as many other Civil War battles, the Olustee one was significant because the South’s victory denied the North from establishing a government in Florida and cutting off supplies to the Confederate army.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: civilwar; dixie; florida; scv
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By resisting the long national tradition of honoring the Civil War dead from both sides, these pro-Confederates bring discredit to their organization. Too bad they lack the dignity and magnanimity exhibited by the elderly veterans in Blue and Gray when they met for the half century commemoration at Gettysburg.
1 posted on 01/25/2014 6:38:12 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Well said. Some folks just haven’t the common sense of a rock


2 posted on 01/25/2014 6:43:01 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

The Union forces not only lost the battle but were an invading army.

No nation builds monuments to an army that invaded, overthrew a government and occupied their land.

It would be just like the Frence erecting monuments to be German army and all others who have invaded.


3 posted on 01/25/2014 6:46:39 PM PST by Oliviaforever
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To: Oliviaforever

The Union forces not only lost the battle but were an invading army.

No nation builds monuments to an army that invaded, overthrew a government and occupied their land.

It would be just like the French erecting monuments to be German army and all others who have invaded.


4 posted on 01/25/2014 6:47:54 PM PST by Oliviaforever
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To: Oliviaforever

The Confederates invaded Pennsylvania yet nobody begrudges monuments to the brave Confederate dead at Gettysburg.


5 posted on 01/25/2014 6:49:57 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

I for one am glad the “war isn’t over.” DEO VINDICE.


6 posted on 01/25/2014 6:51:29 PM PST by golux
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
My great-great uncle emigrated from Norway to the US in the 1850s, and was killed in the Civil War. He was from Minnesota, and fought on the Union side. He might even have been in this battle. He wasn't in the US long enough to learn English. So, I'm a little partial to the North.

I now live in Texas. When in Minnesota, I expect to see memorials to the Union. When in Texas I expect to see memorials to the Confederates. I don't expect Minnesotans to erect memorials to their enemies of the times, and I don't expect the Texans to do it either. There are no memorials to Confederates in Minnesota that I have seen.

7 posted on 01/25/2014 6:53:36 PM PST by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Exactly...and, 150 years is nothing in the grand scheme of the history of the world. People need to realize that.

Just look at the people on the other side of the world, in the desert...they keep grudges for thousands of years. 150 years?! That’s nothing. That was just a few generations back.

150 years later and we see that the current Administration desires to take Pres Lincoln’s mandate of a Federal government to the extreme and get rid of all state’s rights. Just what the Confederates were fighting against. (at least a major issue for them)


8 posted on 01/25/2014 6:56:02 PM PST by I_Publius
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
One of your heroes of the war of northern aggression


9 posted on 01/25/2014 6:56:57 PM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

I would not object to a Union monument to their dead as long as it was done in good taste and did not seek to overshadow other monuments.

According to the story there were 3 times as many Union dead. I do know that soldiers who fought in the battle all agreed that it was the most ferocious fight they were ever in.


10 posted on 01/25/2014 6:57:01 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: yarddog

There is a monument to the Union soldier in Lynn Haven, Florida, just North of Panama City.

The first Confederate monument in Florida and the second one anywhere is in my home town of DeFuniak Springs, FL.


11 posted on 01/25/2014 7:01:11 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: piroque

War is brutal. It was brutal before Sherman invaded Georgia and Southern citizens were suffering many months before Sherman’s invasion, often at the hands of Confederate authority, both civil and military. Sherman’s march had the effect of shortening the suffering of war.


12 posted on 01/25/2014 7:05:47 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Hell... The whole south is still fighting the civil war AND they’re still saving their confederate money.


13 posted on 01/25/2014 7:08:54 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Should have won at Gettysburg and then taken Washington. I guarantee you our lives would all be a lot better off now. My family and I stopped by olustee battlefield last year and it is a wonderful little self guided tour through the monuments and getting to see the artifacts. A LOT of the confederate troops were from Georgia. They really put it on those blue bellies that day.
14 posted on 01/25/2014 7:10:37 PM PST by Vote 4 Nixon (EAT...FISH...SLEEP...REDUX)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Your way of thinking ,if you ever did , is to kill all the southerners as sherman wanted, is that right ?

Be sure and read the last paragraph and let it sink in thought your twitted mind.

15 posted on 01/25/2014 7:13:55 PM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

To those unfamiliar with Florida, Miami, West Palm Beach, etc., probably comes to mind, the area this battlefield is located is up next to Georgia. Rebel flags on almost every pickup truck up there.

Some have noted that the folks in this part of Florida are even more zealous of things southern than their neighbors in the southern states nearby. It thus comes as no surprise to see the brouhaha about this monument. To those who know this area, we would not expect otherwise.


16 posted on 01/25/2014 7:14:26 PM PST by sasportas
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

“With no marker respecting the sacrifice of so many northern men...”

Put up a marker...see how marked up it becomes.


17 posted on 01/25/2014 7:14:56 PM PST by moovova
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To: piroque

The viciousness of the Sherman quotes lives on in the heart and soul of Obama, Obamoids, and most Democrats/Gubment Trough Feeders.


18 posted on 01/25/2014 7:16:46 PM PST by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est - because of what Islam is and because of what Muslims do.)
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To: Vote 4 Nixon

“Should have won at Gettysburg and then taken Washington.”

Without a doubt that our lives would be better if the USA were now the CSA.

No meddling government, no reconstruction, no plethora of pesky post War of Northern Aggression constitutional amendments.


19 posted on 01/25/2014 7:18:42 PM PST by Oliviaforever
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To: sasportas
 photo waltoncocopy_zpsb0e141ff.jpg This is the first Confederate monument in Florida and maybe the first anywhere. It is at the Walton County courthouse in DeFuniak Springs.
20 posted on 01/25/2014 7:19:27 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: sasportas

Most of the early settlers of north Florida were from Georgia. I often remark to my wife on our Florida excursions that when we cross the state line into Florida that we are still among our own people. It’s only when you work your way south that you encounter the contagion.


21 posted on 01/25/2014 7:21:34 PM PST by Vote 4 Nixon (EAT...FISH...SLEEP...REDUX)
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To: GladesGuru

And they wonder why most southerners dislike the north.


22 posted on 01/25/2014 7:25:59 PM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: piroque

My only Southern relative who lost his life during the war was a rebel soldier murdered by the Confederate home guard in Walker County, Georgia. If Sherman had just made it to Walker County sooner, my kinsman might have survived the war.


23 posted on 01/25/2014 7:26:16 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

I had ancestors on who fought on both sides of the War Between the States ...tough call on the monument.


24 posted on 01/25/2014 7:32:29 PM PST by Cloverfarm (This too shall pass ...)
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To: piroque

Sob should have been hung for crimes against humanity.


25 posted on 01/25/2014 7:35:01 PM PST by patriot08 (NATIVE TEXAN (girl type))
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

the wrong side won Sir, and now we have the situation we have today, a nice strong central government.


26 posted on 01/25/2014 7:37:53 PM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Bulwyf

We can’t blame the Union victory for our sad condition today no more than we can blame our revolutionary victory over the British. And given the oppressive, heavy-handed short history of the Confederacy’s treatment of its own citizens, I think a strong case can be made that we’d be in even worse shape.


27 posted on 01/25/2014 7:44:46 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Oliviaforever

“Although it was not nearly as large as many other Civil War battles, the Olustee one was significant because the South’s victory denied the North from establishing a government in Florida and cutting off supplies to the Confederate army.”

There you have it. Why would they want to put up a monument to an invading horde?

Some wounds don’t heal even after 150 years.



28 posted on 01/25/2014 7:45:55 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: sasportas

“To those unfamiliar with Florida, Miami, West Palm Beach, etc., probably comes to mind, the area this battlefield is located is up next to Georgia. Rebel flags on almost every pickup truck up there.”

“Some have noted that the folks in this part of Florida are even more zealous of things southern than their neighbors in the southern states nearby. It thus comes as no surprise to see the brouhaha about this monument. To those who know this area, we would not expect otherwise.”

When you are right you are right. I’m originally from Jax and the sentiments have not changed much in 150 years. Same goes for GA and a lot of the South. I would not bet on the Union monument going at at Olustee. Might as well call the Japs and ask them if they want to erect a statue to Truman on Hiroshima.


29 posted on 01/25/2014 7:55:20 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: piroque

Other than ice storms, crowding, Urban Ferals, anti-gun laws, hive personalities to match their hive dwellings, excessive regulations, Nanny-state gubments - what’s not to like about Neu Yuk types?


30 posted on 01/25/2014 8:02:39 PM PST by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est - because of what Islam is and because of what Muslims do.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

I don’t think the sons of the Union soldiers are planning to erect a mighty Yankee triumphant victory monument, just a dignified memorial to brave men who died fighting for what they thought right, the type of apolitical memorial that has been generally accepted at battlefields for both sides, by both sides, for well over a century.


31 posted on 01/25/2014 8:21:03 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: GladesGuru

If ya ever served with damn yankees you would know that most are idiots, always had to have a southern country boy in charge so wouldn’t get lost.


32 posted on 01/25/2014 8:24:25 PM PST by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: piroque

Ah, there’s that genteel southron grace I’ve heard so much about. Well bless your heart.


33 posted on 01/25/2014 8:39:12 PM PST by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Well I have to tell you that its not wanted in N Fl and you can put forth any reasonable argument you want but the folks don’t want it. Its their choice. Let it go.
I


34 posted on 01/25/2014 8:40:35 PM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Sounds like you’re taking a few isolated cases and painting it with a broad brush. As a Canadian with no relatives in that fight, and seeing from outside, it looks to me like the central government types won, and freedom and state’s rights lost.


35 posted on 01/25/2014 8:41:50 PM PST by Bulwyf
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
“Putting a Union monument at Olustee would be like placing a memorial to Jane Fonda at the entrance to the Vietnam memorial,” added Leon Duke, a wounded veteran.

All the Confederate veterans, wounded or not, died 60+ years ago. So unless he's a veteran of a non-American military he's a veteran of the Union forces' successors.

36 posted on 01/25/2014 8:46:42 PM PST by JohnBovenmyer (Obama been Liberal. Hope Change!)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
“Putting a Union monument at Olustee would be like placing a memorial to Jane Fonda at the entrance to the Vietnam memorial,” added Leon Duke, a wounded veteran.

All the Confederate veterans, wounded or not, died 60+ years ago. So unless he's a veteran of a non-American military he's a veteran of the Union forces' successors.

37 posted on 01/25/2014 8:47:14 PM PST by JohnBovenmyer (Obama been Liberal. Hope Change!)
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Troll, stirring up trouble. Pitting Freeper against Freeper.


38 posted on 01/25/2014 9:40:02 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: Dalberg-Acton

Considering the long tradition of Civil War threads here, this one is very mild. You need to see the one a few days ago on the same incident for more typical fireworks.


39 posted on 01/25/2014 9:47:57 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

Did you kick that one off too?


40 posted on 01/25/2014 9:51:03 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: Dalberg-Acton

Nope. And don’t you think it’s a shame that conservatives from all over the country can’t unite to honor all our brave ancestors, both Blue and Gray? This isn’t about North or South, Lincoln or Davis, Lee or Grant, but brave ordinary Americans who died for what they thought right. This is so far from trolling as it is an honoring of the common heritage of the brave American citizen soldier no matter what part of the country he came from.


41 posted on 01/25/2014 9:58:30 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

A lot of those weren’t fighting for what they thought was right, they were conscripted. I think that was mostly in the North.


42 posted on 01/25/2014 10:01:52 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

This shouldn’t be an issue. Florida has been occupied for decades by Yankees who are regularly reinforced by invading Canadians every winter.


43 posted on 01/25/2014 10:01:57 PM PST by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
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To: Dalberg-Acton

Conscription started in the Confederacy.


44 posted on 01/25/2014 10:03:15 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Regardless, those conscripted weren't likely fighting for "what they thought was right".

From the wikipedia:
The vast majority of troops were volunteers; however, of the 2,100,000 Union soldiers, about 2% were draftees, and another 6% were substitutes paid by draftees.

45 posted on 01/25/2014 10:11:35 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: Dalberg-Acton

And one more thing about conscription, my dad and a lot of other soldiers from World War II and other wars were conscripts and I do not accept the fact that those conscripts who faithfully served, bled and died are not worthy of honor or were not inspired by patriotic feeling to accept their duty.


46 posted on 01/25/2014 10:13:02 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo

I can’t speak to their motivations, but why did they wait to be conscripted?


47 posted on 01/25/2014 10:19:47 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: Dalberg-Acton

That’s a very low percentage of Union soldiers who were drafted or paid substitutes.


48 posted on 01/25/2014 10:20:17 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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To: Colonel Kangaroo
Whether it's high or low is matter of opinion. It's about every twelfth man.

From www.civilwarhome.com:

Conscription (Military Draft) In The Civil War

        There was no general military draft in America until the Civil War. The Confederacy passed its first of 3 conscription acts 16 April 1862, and scarcely a year later the Union began conscripting men. Government officials plagued with manpower shortages regarded drafting as the only means of sustaining an effective army and hoped it would spur voluntary enlistments.
But compulsory service embittered the public, who considered it an infringement on individual free will and personal liberty and feared it would concentrate arbitrary power in the military. Believing with some justification that unwilling soldiers made poor fighting men, volunteer soldiers despised conscripts. Conscription also undercut morale, as soldiers complained that it compromised voluntary enlistments and appeared as an act of desperation in the face of repeated military defeats.
        Conscription nurtured substitutes, bounty-jumping, and desertion. Charges of class discrimination were leveled against both Confederate and Union draft laws since exemption and commutation clauses allowed propertied men to avoid service, thus laying the burden on immigrants and men with few resources. Occupational, only-son, and medical exemptions created many loopholes in the laws. Doctors certified healthy men unfit for duty, while some physically or mentally deficient conscripts went to the front after sham examinations. Enforcement presented obstacles of its own; many conscripts simply failed to report for duty. Several states challenged the draft's legality, trying to block it and arguing over the quota system. Unpopular, unwieldy, and unfair, conscription raised more discontent than soldiers.
        Under the Union draft act men faced the possibility of conscription in July 1863 and in Mar., July, and Dec. 1864. Draft riots ensued, notably in New York in 1863. Of the 249,259 18-to-35-year-old men whose names were drawn, only about 6% served, the rest paying commutation or hiring a substitute.
        The first Confederate conscription law also applied to men between 18 and 35, providing for substitution (repealed Dec. 1863) and exemptions. A revision, approved 27 Sept. 1862, raised the age to 45; 5 days later the legislators passed the expanded Exemption Act. The Conscription Act of Feb. 1864 called all men between 1 7 and 50. Conscripts accounted for one-fourth to one-third of the Confederate armies east of the Mississippi between Apr. 1864 and early 1865.
Source: "Historical Times Encyclopedia of the Civil War" Edited by Patricia L. Faust

This Page last updated 02/15/02


49 posted on 01/25/2014 10:25:08 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: Dalberg-Acton

Unless we have volunteered to fight in our recent foreign wars, I think it’s presumptuous to question the motivation of those who did answer the call and sometimes suffered and died for our nation.


50 posted on 01/25/2014 10:28:16 PM PST by Colonel Kangaroo
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