Meet the Kronies: A Team of Politically Inspired Big Government Action Figures

I take the term Conservative with a grain of salt when folks don’t mind if China gets our technology, specifically military grade technology.

Remind me again who said they don't mind if China gets our military technology? Or are you just tilting at windmills again? Sounds like you have a problem with government.

It's kind of funny to watch folks champion the trade with China, then deny that they favor any of the downsides that go along with it.

If you're not aware of what takes place, please find a subject you know at least a little more about.

they don’t like government involvement, but when you mention that corporations get tax incentives today to move jobs off shore...

Sounds like another problem that government has created. Again, your problem is with government, not freedom.

LOL, there you go avoiding what is taking place. You don't like any of it, but you support it 100%.

I suggest we need to review what has been and still is takeing place some 20 years into this fiasco. And now you tell me my problem isn't with Free Trade, it's with government.

Okay, then if you don't agee with so much of what is taking place, why to you go into a full blown melt-down when someone says they don't like what Free Trade has done to our nation, and they want the whole thing reviewed.

Do you like China getting our tech? Well no... Do you think we should be incentivising corporations to move manufacturing off shore? Wel no... Do you think it's good that we have 23% of our workforce out of work right now? Well no...

Well then for heavens sake, let's not take a look at what's going on. Right? Geez louise...

And since the reaction to any suggestion there is need to change always focuses on “Protectionists”, I think it’s fair to ask questions that will cause folks to confront their own ignorance.

You're good with itemizing problems. You're not so good with solutions.....other than we must place more restrictions on the private sector and reign in liberty. That doesn't sound very conservative, but maybe I just don't know you well enough. I'm sure you mean well.

LOL Yeah, I guess you're just protecting the liberty of those 23% unemployed U. S. Citizens. Thanks... I'm sure their spouses and children will always be in your debt for it.

I don't blame protectionists for those problems directly. I blame those who would empower government even more to rectify their perceived problems. And that's exactly what protectionists propose. Their only solutions, at least that I've seen, involve bigger government and greater restrictions on freedom. You may or may not be a protectionist, but offering bigger government as your solution ain't much of a solution.

Did I offer up bigger government solutions? You said yourself I have posted a number of problems. Then you move on to hurl more veiled insuts and ignore the problems.

It's just comical to watch you folks flux between agreeing there are problems to be sure, but man you guys are really off base for mentioning they're out there.

Nevermind if you don't advocate higher tariffs or government intervention.

If you brain trusts have some suggestioins, why not offer them up.

Look at our employment climate in the U. S. today. Think there’s any problems?

Lots of problems. You've pointed out another result of big government. I'm seeing a common thread here.....you?

Yes. And I also see tens of millions of jobs moved off-shore. You don't see this as a problem. There are national and global security issues involved, and this isn't a prolem for you folks either. There's the jump-starting of an expanisionist communist state with six times our population, and even that doesn't cause any meaningful reaction on your part, or the part of other loud mouths on this thread.

Would lowering the corporate tax rate be government intervention to control the economy and individuals more?

I'm all for lowering the corporate tax rate so that more businesses will choose to locate here. Dramatically reduce regulation along with that and you might be on to something. Looks like you finally suggested a solution.....and, gasp, it involves shrinking government. I like it.

Who wouldn't. Does that stop our transfer of technology in it's tracks? Nope. Does it completely cut off the funding of China dead in it's tracks? Nope. Then the problem isn't fixed is it.

I'm concerned that big government is ruining our economy.

So am I. It goes far beyond the Free Trade issue too. Obama has done just about everything he can to destroy jobs. He killed the pipeline to Canada. He has devistated the coal industry. On and on it goes, with this guy playing the lead role in Dumb and Dumber, the White House years.

Wow! It's like you suddenly sobered up.

You missed some brown stuff behind your left ear.

I admit 20 million illegals is a huge problem. Deport them now. Build a wall. And then cut corporate taxes and idiotic regulations, especially Obamacare, and watch jobs grow.

I believe that would help. It certainly wouldn't hurt.

As for the Free Trade part of it, I want to support Free Trade as much as I can. The problem is, we have massive problems right now. Incentivise companies to employ people in the United States.

There you go again, suddenly making sense.

There you go finally grasping the material presented.

And yet, the government can't see any reason to help entice jobs back here. If a nation is going to effectively charge us 30-40% tariffs on our goods going into their nation, then cut them off. Tell them to change it, or else.

I have no problem calling them a "currency manipulator". Although the idea that paying more for imports and selling your exports at a discount is the route to prosperity is difficult for me to wrap my head around.

Perhaps you can show me where I suggested we pay more for imports. This infers I supported tariffs, which I didn't do.

I would rather pay a bit more for the goods I buy, if it's going to put the Johnson family down the street back on the payroll. They will be making income. They will be spending in the community.

That is an excellent idea. How do we do it?

We incentivise the corporations and companies to employ people here. We do so because it could cut government outlays, and improve government revenues to do it.

We have discussed the issue at length on this thread.

The government sets up tax rates. The government charges two difference tax rates. It taxes corporations who manufacture on U. S. soil one rate. It taxes corporations that manufacture on foreign soil another rate.

Really? Please show me the different rates.

And this after you agreeing that the government uses disincentives over incentives to move jobs off shore.

You agree that the government incentevises the movement of manufacturing off shore.

High taxes are a DISINCENTIVE to corporations here.

Does this mean you won't show the different rates the US government taxes corporations based on where they manufacture? LOL!

If you wish to look the rates up after agreeing they're diferent, be my guest. LOL indeed...

Actually it's more like ROTF LMAO. Is there more than one person posting under your name here, or are you truly this incapable of remembering what we have discussed, and conversing as if you did?

Except our trade with China can't take place without it

Baloney.

Masterful argument in rebuttal. It's on a par with the rest of your nonsensical offerings.

The answer is no. I did not bring up the subject of tariffs or advocate for raising or lowering them. There are other ways to impact trade.

By all means, elaborate.

No, I'm not going to expand this discussion further. You haven't even been capable of agreeing with yourself in the same post.

You claimed I view job displacement in the US as a great thing. Where? If I need to express that again and again for you, just let me know. You seem to be having a bit of a comprehension problem.

I mention the 23% of our workers out of work and you tell me there's no need to review our trade policies.

So you lied when you claimed I view job displacement in the US as a great thing.

No, you support full blown Free Trade and the relocation of our jobs to foriegn nations when we have 23% unemployment in our nation, and another large portion of our populace earning far less than they used to.

You can't support moving their jobs away, and then claim that you don't view the jobs lost here in the U. S. as anything other than optimal.

If you can't grasp these concepts, and you have proven again and again you can't, why stay here and make yourself look this stupid.

What is particularly amusing here, is that whichever word is used, the use of it reveals your agreement that the government moves corporate policy via tax manipulation.

Where did I disagree that high taxes impact corporate policy?

And what has corporate policy been? It has been to move jobs overseas. Glad to see we're in agreement again, if only for a few seconds.

I am offended by your lies about me.

You probably are.

I am.

Well good. I'm glad you are offended. Poor thing that you are, I know you probably think I stole your socks too.,

Nevermind if I have lied about you or not.

You made a claim about me. If you have proof, show it.

If you can't, admit you lied.

I admit that you stated opinions supporting conclusions you didn't mean others to come away with. Too bad. Think before you post some of this nonsense,

RE: “[Automation and software] have not panned out yet.”

I disagree.

Peak manufacturing employment was about 20 million in 1979.

Today, it’s about 11 million.

Adjusted for inflation, a worker today produces 3 times more value than a worker in 1979.

In other words, with half the workforce, we are producing 50% more goods than we did in 1979.

RE: “This begs the question, how much more could we have exported if we weren’t still supporting the money mainline to China?”

I don’t understand your answer.

If all countries are Protectionist, there will be no exports, from any country.

RE: “Yeah, right. Our corporations will simply refuse to sell products in the United States. LOL I think you know better than that.”

You don’t understand my answer.

We imported $2.7 trillion in manufactured goods in 2012.

Almost none of those goods are manufactured in the USA.

It would take years, and hundreds of billions of dollars in investment to meet that demand, and most of those goods would be low profit margin goods.

USA corporations would never invest in that unless they had an iron clad guarantee that no imports would ever be allowed.

RE: “Price increases.”

Again, you did not understand my answer.

What is the first thing a business owner does if one of his competitors leaves the business?

He raises his prices.

For mass produced goods, when competition is reduced, prices go up, and quality goes down.

I have no problem calling them a "currency manipulator". Although the idea that paying more for imports and selling your exports at a discount is the route to prosperity is difficult for me to wrap my head around.

Perhaps you can show me where I suggested we pay more for imports. This infers I supported tariffs, which I didn't do.

Nope. If the Chinese undervalue their currency, they pay more for imports and earn less for exports.

That is an excellent idea. How do we do it?

We incentivise the corporations and companies to employ people here.

How? Be specific.

Really? Please show me the different rates.

And this after you agreeing that the government uses disincentives over incentives to move jobs off shore.

You're not telling me the different rates the US government charges.

If you wish to look the rates up after agreeing they're diferent, be my guest. LOL indeed...

The US charges a different rate than, for example, Germany.

You claimed the US charges a different rate for manufacturing here than manufacturing there.

Now you won't tell me the two rates the US charges.

Unless you're confusing the US and another country, again. You didn't stay sober long. LOL!

Masterful argument in rebuttal.

When you say something stupid, how much deeper should I go?

You haven't even been capable of agreeing with yourself in the same post.

My responses to your muddled posts have been perfectly consistent.

You claimed I view job displacement in the US as a great thing.

You lie.

I admit that you stated opinions supporting conclusions you didn't mean others to come away with.

I admit you lied.

Keep working on those English lessons, you still don't get it.

RE: “[Automation and software] have not panned out yet.”

I disagree.

Peak manufacturing employment was about 20 million in 1979.

Today, it’s about 11 million.

LOL, you do realize you missed completely the elephant in the room right? Seriously. Peak manufacturing was 20 million in 2979, and today it's 11 million. And you're basing your disagreement on these numbers in part, no mention at all the impact of Free Trade on this.

Adjusted for inflation, a worker today produces 3 times more value than a worker in 1979.

In other words, with half the workforce, we are producing 50% more goods than we did in 1979.

And this mean exactly what? Moving manufacturing back to the U. S. with the proper corporate tax rates would be of no value at all? Really?

RE: “This begs the question, how much more could we have exported if we weren’t still supporting the money mainline to China?”

I don’t understand your answer.

No problem.

If all countries are Protectionist, there will be no exports, from any country.

You know, you folks know two things by heart. China, whoopie.....!!!!!!!!!! Wha?????? Manufacture in the U. S.? Why you sum beatch Protectionist!!!!!!

The United States became the premier nation on the planet. There's no denying that. And there's no denying that it did so without the Free Trade that is so rabidly persued, that it's still considered wholesome even if it contributes to 23% of our workforce out of work, many others making much less than they used to.

RE: “Yeah, right. Our corporations will simply refuse to sell products in the United States. LOL I think you know better than that.”

You don’t understand my answer.

I would sugges you don't understand economics. You honestly think the corporations will not manufacture in the U. S. if their tax rates are cut, and production methods make manufacturing here competitive again. You go on and on about the need for less manufacturing workers, and then miss the relevence of that as it relates to competitive manufacturing.

We imported $2.7 trillion in manufactured goods in 2012. Almost none of those goods are manufactured in the USA. It would take years, and hundreds of billions of dollars in investment to meet that demand, and most of those goods would be low profit margin goods. USA corporations would never invest in that unless they had an iron clad guarantee that no imports would ever be allowed.

If robotics and software manufacturing methods are as advanced as you say they are, then we should be able to manufacture here in mass volume mitigating the cost differential of labor here vs overseas. Even if the robotic methods were used overseas, the reduction in man hours would make the basic costs of labor almost negligable. It does cost money to produce parts, ship them to China, manufacture there, and ship back to the U. S. and distribute for sale. It's quite likely that the reduction in these costs could make the whole process a push, here vs China or other places with very cheap labor.

I realize this would really bother you guys, because it doesn't involve the word that scares you guys worse than the walking dead..., protectionist.

RE: “Price increases.”

Again, you did not understand my answer.

What is the first thing a business owner does if one of his competitors leaves the business?

He raises his prices.

For mass produced goods, when competition is reduced, prices go up, and quality goes down.

Funny how those prices in China didn't rise when there was no competition huh.

You know what, you’re not worthy of having this discussion with.

I went back and read your comments from yesterday, and it hysterical to watch you contradict yourself on post after post.

Thanks again. It’s nice of you to come back and allow me to laugh at you again, but no thanks.

Your confusion knows no bounds.

Let me know when you find out the different rates the US government charges.

The government sets up tax rates. The government charges two difference tax rates. It taxes corporations who manufacture on U. S. soil one rate. It taxes corporations that manufacture on foreign soil another rate.

LOL!

Boy you really scored with that tactic didn’t you.

Sad thing is, while you were busy correcting me about incentives and disincentives, you already caved on the point.

The reason we’re not continuing this discussion, is because you are too ignorant to know what you’ve done, why you’ve failed, and why it isn’t worth my time to continue this with you.

You’ve already ripped your credibility to shreds.