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Russian rubbish? India reportedly disappointed with stealth fighters from Moscow
FoxNews.com ^ | January 26, 2014 | Maxim Lott

Posted on 01/26/2014 3:13:20 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek

“If they get a chance to really look at the F35, they would want it," Laird said. "The Indians have requested 3 times to talk to people about the F-35B, which is the true revolutionary aircraft -- and the administration never answered the mail, they've blown them off, it's typical of the Obama administration. We love our allies except if you want anything."

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Japan; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: bangladesh; china; f35; f35b; india; japan; pakistan; russia; stealthfighter; t50
Looks like India doesn't like what it's seeing of the new Russian stealth aircraft they're supposed to eventually buy. As the article notes, it might not be in the US interest to sell the F-35 to India (and I seem to remember there was a special, more sophisticated variant we aren't selling to anyone, which sounds like a good idea). But I hope the Obama administration has actually consulted with the military to determine this, and isn't simply ignoring a possible partner with money to spend for the F-35, as well as a chance to build stronger ties with India.
1 posted on 01/26/2014 3:13:20 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

We don’t need India. They need us. Think China and Pakistan.


2 posted on 01/26/2014 3:20:21 PM PST by DIRTYSECRET (urope. Why do they put up with this.)
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To: DIRTYSECRET

the web site English Russia shows that Russia is a dumping ground for Russian Military equipment


3 posted on 01/26/2014 3:22:48 PM PST by molson209 (Hillary Clinton)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

If you’ve ever been up close enough to check out the fit and finish on Russian aircraft, the idea of a stealthy Russian fighter is hard to fathom.


4 posted on 01/26/2014 3:23:47 PM PST by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
One; selling, or trying to sell, arms to India is not a good way to advance a companies business. Just getting in the door to answer a request for bids is fraught with danger.

Two; the article oversells the F-35, and especially the F-35B, bigtime. Given a choice between the top fighters currently available and F-35B, few, if any, countries would pick the F-35B. Most would also shun the other variants. Bird in the hand and all that.

5 posted on 01/26/2014 3:31:01 PM PST by diogenes ghost
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

I have had a distaste for India ever since William F. Buckley said they took aid packages from American and marked the U.S. out and labeled them as from the USSR.

To my surprise, former ambassador to India, Daniel Moynihan confirmed that they did exactly that. What total ingrates!


6 posted on 01/26/2014 3:31:42 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Well duh. Quality control has always been a problem with Russian military hardware. Ask members of their navy.


7 posted on 01/26/2014 3:31:43 PM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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8 posted on 01/26/2014 3:37:13 PM PST by RedMDer (Happy with this, America? Make your voices heard. 2014 is just around the corner. ~ Sarah Palin)
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To: F15Eagle

Another way to look at this: Why would Russia sell its latest and greatest to the Indians?

Rooskies KNOW that when push comes to shove, the Indians will side with the West.

Why give them an edge?

IMHO, the Indians should gather up this stuff that Putin has sold them, take it to Atsugi Japan to a company called NIPPI, and have them rework the systems.

Bet they would roll out some fine systems.

NIPPI can BUILD some stuff that can WOW the world. After all, when the US Navy and Marines sent their best planes for overhaul, they sent them to NIPPI. And those planes came back with some dazzling upgrades.

Just ruminating. Don’t know if the company is even still in business. After all, its been 40 years. Lot can change and happen in that amount of time.


9 posted on 01/26/2014 3:41:37 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat ( According to mudslimz, my handle is a HATE CRIME. And I HOPE they don't like it.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Also posted here.
10 posted on 01/26/2014 3:43:44 PM PST by Yo-Yo (Is the /sarc tag really necessary?)
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To: yarddog

“But that was yesterday, and yesterday’s gone!!”

I remember that happening.

I also remember that the Indian economy at that time was seriously sucking wind. And that CCCP aide meant the difference between life and famine.

I don’t begrudge the Indians for what they had to do to eat.

Just my opinion.


11 posted on 01/26/2014 3:46:03 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat ( According to mudslimz, my handle is a HATE CRIME. And I HOPE they don't like it.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek

Or maybe they just don’t trust the Indians to not have Russian and Chinese engineers crawling all over the F35.


12 posted on 01/26/2014 3:47:59 PM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: ConradofMontferrat

That was just the point.

It was the U.S. which was keeping them alive and they gave credit to the USSR.

They showed their gratitude by lying about us.


13 posted on 01/26/2014 3:50:25 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: yarddog

Well, sorry, I think you missed my point.

When someone has a gun to your head, its kind of stupid to p!$$ them off.

When that happened, not too many people here got upset. We KNEW the reason that they were almost COMPELLED to do it.

The CCCP was breathing down India’s neck at that time. India needed a diplomatic break.

If we could dig into the archives, we may even find that it was OUR OWN state department that recommended the changed stencils. (just my opinion, no facts do I have)

But hey, that was years ago, and I’m not concerned with it now. What I do like is that India has turned out decisively pro West.

And don’t think for a moment that Russia and China haven’t noticed.


14 posted on 01/26/2014 4:03:42 PM PST by ConradofMontferrat ( According to mudslimz, my handle is a HATE CRIME. And I HOPE they don't like it.)
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To: ConradofMontferrat

India will support us if we totally abandon Pakistan. That is something the US is not fully prepared to do. As long the US has military ties/aid to Pakistan, India will remain coy to US relations.


15 posted on 01/26/2014 4:25:08 PM PST by Fee
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To: yarddog

I’ve heard those as rumours (relabeling aid packages) without evidence and don’t see the political purpose for India to even do it.

Most places receiving aid would have been illiterate / unfamiliar with English to begin with. It would be even more astonishing if the people receiving it even cared to know what the USA and USSR were. Now, if you had said local politicians relabeled them to their own names or their party’s names, it would’ve made more sense.

Ambassadors know less than what they spout. Look at the current US ambassador to Norway and how he made an ass of himself by revealing his ignorance.


16 posted on 01/26/2014 4:52:19 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: DIRTYSECRET

Perhaps we do need India for the same reason.


17 posted on 01/26/2014 5:48:23 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: USNBandit
No kidding.

T50

18 posted on 01/26/2014 6:11:21 PM PST by logi_cal869
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To: James C. Bennett

If I remember right, Daniel Patrick Moynihan claimed to have actually seen the boxes. He recognized them as being U.S. provided but they had painted over then re-stenciled the Russian name on them.

That is just plain despicable.


19 posted on 01/26/2014 7:09:38 PM PST by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: yarddog

I would love to see more proof of it actually happening before I believe an ambassador’s words from an era where he was part of an administration that was actively vilifying India while supporting Pakistan in slaughtering Bengalis under Operation Searchlight. Nixon actually sent USS Enterprise to the Bay of Bengal to threaten India whilst enabling the Pakistanis, prompting the Soviets to send their submarines and ships to tail it.

There is no dividend in India relabeling those boxes. The recipients most likely couldn’t have read the labels, leave alone being bothered about the difference between ‘USA’ and ‘USSR’.


20 posted on 01/26/2014 7:47:19 PM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: AnotherUnixGeek
Pic of the best stealth fighter in the world.

















Send 50 mil per to my bank account in the Caymans.

21 posted on 01/26/2014 9:19:20 PM PST by this_ol_patriot
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To: ConradofMontferrat

My guess is that India is finding out the quality control of Russian planes leaves much to be desired. That could drive the Indian Air Force to increase its buy of the Dassault Rafale from 126 to as many as 220 planes as a substitute for the failed Russian design.


22 posted on 01/26/2014 9:28:53 PM PST by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: DIRTYSECRET
We don’t need India. They need us. Think China and Pakistan.

Pakistan? India doesn't need our help to do what it wants with Pakistan - they're not near peers any more and haven't been for decades.

23 posted on 01/26/2014 9:50:44 PM PST by Alter Kaker (Gravitation is a theory, not a fact. It should be approached with an open mind...)
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To: yarddog
If I remember right, Daniel Patrick Moynihan claimed to have actually seen the boxes. He recognized them as being U.S. provided but they had painted over then re-stenciled the Russian name on them.

That is just plain despicable.


I tried to Google a little about this, since it did indeed sound despicable and also stupid - there have to be easier ways to make your people believe that the Soviets are helping them than hand-painting hundreds of thousands of containers in some language they don't understand.

I found that Nixon cut off assistance to India in 1971, and it was never resumed, by India's request. Moynihan was US ambassador to India from 1973-1975, and indeed there was a threat of severe famine in India in 1973 due to drought and a massive influx of refugees from Bangladesh. India received food aid from the US through private organizations like CARE, but it purchased wheat from the US government. Google has some excerpts from Moynihan's letters:

"The starving time appears to be at hand. The words begin to appear in the press....Kissinger has been extraordinary in getting me what I asked. A cable last night reported that after talking with Butz it was evident that the Indians could buy three to four million tons of grain if they moved immediately...I make clear that we are not giving them anything, merely offering to help them buy with hard cash at inflated prices."

This does not mean that India couldn't have stenciled 'USSR' on packages labeled 'CARE', or whatever containers the purchased wheat came in, of course - but I wasn't able to find anything indicating this. What I did find is that Moynihan's published letters make for interesting reading about the US and the world during that time - I'll be buying a copy.
24 posted on 01/26/2014 11:30:37 PM PST by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: molson209
Guilty Sukhoi employee: "Mail-order-me now, or you won't fly-by-my-wire too far away tomorrow"
25 posted on 01/28/2014 11:35:06 PM PST by cunning_fish
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