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Propane shortage becomes an emergency
Mcall.com ^

Posted on 01/27/2014 2:55:40 AM PST by Red in Blue PA

As brutal cold continues to blast much of the nation, a propane shortage is driving up heating bills, prompting accusations of price gouging and leading to energy emergencies in more than a dozen states.

"They're worried they might not be able to keep those chickens warm," said Jeff Helms of the Alabama Farmers Federation.

And consumers are grousing about higher prices.

"It looks like there's some price gouging going on," said Phillip Wallace, director of schools in Stewart County, Tenn., which were closed Thursday and Friday because they were short on propane for heating classrooms. The district was due to receive 2,000 gallons. But Wallace complained the propane cost $3.45 a gallon, up from $1.29.

(Excerpt) Read more at mcall.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: energy; propane; propaneshortage
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1 posted on 01/27/2014 2:55:40 AM PST by Red in Blue PA
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To: Red in Blue PA

I REALLY don’t need this news right now


2 posted on 01/27/2014 2:57:18 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: knarf

Our whole house generator runs on propane, but barring any extended outages, it doesn’t use much. If it does go out though, the bill will be a heck of a sticker shock.


3 posted on 01/27/2014 3:06:51 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: knarf

Uuuuunh! Doesn’t propane slow down turning to gas at 0 or colder?

Went to a relative’s house for Christmas diner one year. Down to 10 degrees. Propane wouldn’t flow to the oven so we had ham sandwiches instead of turkey


4 posted on 01/27/2014 3:07:35 AM PST by plangent
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To: Red in Blue PA
But Wallace complained the propane cost $3.45 a gallon, up from $1.29.

???
I got a $3.49 quote in December, that seemed high but I had no choice, so I ordered it. By the time they delivered the bastards charged me $3.99 This is the last year I am going to be held hostage, I am going to buy my own tanks.

5 posted on 01/27/2014 3:12:31 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: plangent
Hmmmm ... I don't think so.

I'm in SW Pa and the last two weeks have been closer to 0 and below than not and the only thing I saw was a slightly smaller flame (I use propane for my cook stove ... 100 gallons lasts ... well ... my last fill was Oct. 2010 )

6 posted on 01/27/2014 3:12:31 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: palmer
Owning your own tank(s) will still demand they need to be filled/refilled.

I own mine, but I'm calling the fuel company when they open in a couple of hours.

I'm not so concerned about propane as I am about home heating oil.

7 posted on 01/27/2014 3:15:02 AM PST by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: Red in Blue PA
Call and ask for Hank...


8 posted on 01/27/2014 3:17:33 AM PST by Tainan (Cogito, ergo conservatus sum -- "The Taliban is inside the building")
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To: palmer

How much will they cost?


9 posted on 01/27/2014 3:21:47 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: knarf

I have about 6 acres of woods...


10 posted on 01/27/2014 3:22:41 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Its not GD price gouging, its the market.

There’s no such thing as price gouging.


11 posted on 01/27/2014 3:30:32 AM PST by Crazieman (Are you naive enough to think VOTING will fix this entrenched system?)
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To: Crazieman

Agree. Back during the period after Hurricane Sandy, some gas stations were charging $6.00 per gallon. Some called that gouging.

But with so few trucks getting through with gas, that is a price which the market came to which necessarily kept people from hoarding if they did not need it. High prices serve a purpose during times like that and I saw it first-hand.


12 posted on 01/27/2014 3:34:52 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Elsie

Not sure. But I have to pay $90 a year for “tank rental” right now, so whatever they cost is worth it.


13 posted on 01/27/2014 3:42:49 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: knarf

We just ordered propane here in east central Indiana. They quoted a price of $6.25! The receptionist said they were not getting their usual supplies; a shortage. Our vendor is limiting each delivery to 200 gallons. Thankfully this is for heating our workshop and not our home.


14 posted on 01/27/2014 3:54:25 AM PST by raisincane (I'm a resident of Realville.)
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To: plangent

I believe it freezes at -58F.


15 posted on 01/27/2014 4:01:24 AM PST by gorush (History repeats itself because human nature is static)
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To: Crazieman

I’m not saying it is happening in this case but intentionally causing shortages to push up prices is gouging. It’s the reason we don’t like monopolies.


16 posted on 01/27/2014 4:10:01 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: Red in Blue PA

What high prices accomplish is ensuring that the wealthy get what they want while the do without regardless of need. That’s why left wing elites like high gas prices.


17 posted on 01/27/2014 4:14:02 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: freedomfiter2

I meant to include the word poor.


18 posted on 01/27/2014 4:15:57 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: freedomfiter2

During the Fukushima nuclear accident in Japan, Potassium Iodide tablets which normally sell for $10 were selling for $300 on Ebay. People in places like Kansas were buying them when there was no need. Once again, high prices ensured that only those who needed them most ought them. Why keep the price artificially low so that paranoid people who live nowhere near a nuclear plant can hoard them? That is insane.


19 posted on 01/27/2014 4:24:46 AM PST by Red in Blue PA (When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance Becomes Duty.-Thomas Jefferson)
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To: palmer
This is the last year I am going to be held hostage, I am going to buy my own tanks.

Good move.....but the companies are so busy delivering propane you might have to wait a while....

then you still have to buy propane to fill the tank.

If you don't have a contract with a delivery company ...you will be at the bottom of the list as priority goes to those with annual contracts.

20 posted on 01/27/2014 4:26:40 AM PST by spokeshave (OMG.......Schadenfreude overload is not covered under Obamacare :-()
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To: plangent

It gets a lot colder than 10 degrees here and I use propane with no problem.


21 posted on 01/27/2014 4:27:50 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: freedomfiter2
I’m not saying it is happening in this case but intentionally causing shortages to push up prices is gouging

The main reason propane prices are going up is because of exports of natural gas to Europe and Asia.

22 posted on 01/27/2014 4:29:36 AM PST by spokeshave (OMG.......Schadenfreude overload is not covered under Obamacare :-()
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To: Red in Blue PA

Interesting - all these articles the last few months about how we are now producing more Natural Gas than ever in this country, and yet there is a propane shortage. HMMMM.


23 posted on 01/27/2014 4:32:35 AM PST by commish (The takers rule. Time to implement the triple G plan - GOD, GUNS, & GOLD)
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To: Red in Blue PA
"It looks like there's some price gouging going on," said Phillip Wallace, director of schools in Stewart County

There's a real credible opinion on the free market.

Be that as it may, how is does a real shortage of natural gas materialize in the U.S., these days? There really can't be such a shortage.

So the problem is more likely to be one of distribution, and temporary. Better minds can help clear this up for the class, I hope, with regard to Tennessee, especially. Initially, it seems similar to the lack of protection against pipes bursting due to protracted sub-zero weather throughout the sunbelt. It's cost is greater than repairs and replacement, which occur only when such weather arrives to stay for a longer period of time, every five to fifteen years. A windfall for sheetrock tape and bedders and plumbers, not to mention meth labs.

24 posted on 01/27/2014 4:38:53 AM PST by Prospero (Si Deus trucido mihi, ego etiam fides Deus.)
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To: spokeshave
I'd like to get 30 gallon tanks and take them to Tractor Supply to get them filled. I'm sure that won't be completely safe, but as long as I follow applicable code and regulations I should be ok.

I have to do more research on fittings and how to get my propane out of the rented tank.

25 posted on 01/27/2014 4:46:56 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: freedomfiter2
What high prices accomplish is ensuring that the wealthy get blah blah blah

What high prices accomplish is ensuring that new supplies are created to make future prices as low as possible.

26 posted on 01/27/2014 4:49:28 AM PST by palmer (Obama = Carter + affirmative action)
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To: palmer

The high prices of Propane are intended to cause people to switch to the never ending supply of natural gas.

The temporary pain of ‘14 will be a lost memory to the sweet inexpensiveness of ‘15

(can you believe that it is actually ‘14)


27 posted on 01/27/2014 4:58:59 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Red in Blue PA

Ordered 100 gallons back in November and it was around $2.40 gallon. The cold and ice in December caused me to use way more than usual so I just recently ordered another 100 gallons and it was delivered at $3.72.

I have always in the current house I’m in gotten through a winter with around 200 gallons but this winter my burn rate is up about 50%. And, in the last several years we’ve had some of the coldest, harshest winters of the last quarter century but this one is costing the most.


28 posted on 01/27/2014 5:04:42 AM PST by FAA
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To: freedomfiter2

It’s hard to think of any monopolies that exist without the assistance of government. Think IBM. The history of Free Markets is driving prices down, and protecting consumers.

The history of Government is driving prices up. Think Keystone pipeline, limiting fracking, Ethanol.

Price gouging is a Socialist rationalization for price controls.


29 posted on 01/27/2014 5:12:04 AM PST by Rock Eye Jack
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To: spokeshave
"The main reason propane prices are going up is because of exports of natural gas to Europe and Asia."

Huh? Propane is not natural gas. For most wells, the more natural gas that's produced, the MORE propane you get. When natural gas supplies are so large that it can be exported, the supply of propane goes up, not down.

30 posted on 01/27/2014 5:14:47 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: norwaypinesavage

You’re Hank Hill, aren’t you.


31 posted on 01/27/2014 5:24:51 AM PST by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: bert

The only reason people use propane is because there is not a natural gas line running in front of their house. Propane is more expensive. If you live in town, you use natural gas. If you live outside of town and there is no natural gas line, you have to use propane, or electricity which is more expensive than propane.


32 posted on 01/27/2014 5:34:14 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Red in Blue PA

Propane song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gc1URQgQWNo


33 posted on 01/27/2014 5:36:05 AM PST by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; me = independent conservative)
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To: gorush; plangent

Propane will not freeze at temperatures possible for local ambinent conditions.

It will stop boil off (producing gas) below -44°F. It will slow down as temperatures approach that point. As the propane in the tank is used, it boils off more gas. The boil lowers the temperature so the propane in the tank will be colder than the outside temperatures.

http://www.propane101.com/aboutpropane.htm


34 posted on 01/27/2014 5:41:55 AM PST by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: palmer

Yes, as long as people are free to respond. Regulation, zoning, licensing, patents, and copyrights are all designed to interfere with the natural market.


35 posted on 01/27/2014 5:42:09 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: palmer
Pre-buy contracts signed in October-November are one simple answer to the price run up.
36 posted on 01/27/2014 5:49:22 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: VerySadAmerican

The Hill, you say?


37 posted on 01/27/2014 5:51:01 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (Galileo: In science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of one individual)
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To: palmer; commish
"What high prices accomplish is ensuring that new supplies are created"

Propane is a byproduct, not a product.

Propane is cracked into propylene used for polypropylene(plastic). Ethane into polyethylene(plastic). Butane into Butadiene(synthetic rubber).

Propane is produced by cracking naptha which comes from oil. Propane is also produced by separating it from natural gas.

BTW, if you are paying $95/year tank rental, you are getting screwed.

To save money, you can use your kitchen range to partially heat your house. That is direct fired and 100% efficient. But that makes your windows fog up and raises the CO2 in your air. And you have to be careful that no carbon monoxide is being produced because that will kill you. Make sure the flame is blue with only a small amount of yellow at the tip of the flame.

38 posted on 01/27/2014 5:54:27 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I don’t think that will work this year. I have heard where contracts are not being honored. Propane here went from $2.25 to $4.00 in 3 days. Our supplier only delivering 100 gallons to those under 20 percent in their tank. He was getting one load in this weekend. I read about pipelines being shut down and drying the corn crop as the culprits.


39 posted on 01/27/2014 5:57:30 AM PST by taterjay
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To: freedomfiter2

I thought we had a glut of natural gas, which is from where propane is derived. Why would we have a propane shortage?


40 posted on 01/27/2014 6:03:37 AM PST by cuban leaf
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To: palmer
I have to do more research on fittings and how to get my propane out of the rented tank.

You can purchase a tank from another supplier...they will transfer the gas to the new tank....in many cases....they will give an equivalent tank to your old supplier and you get to own the original one....this saves them the cost of removing and replacing the old tank with a new one.

41 posted on 01/27/2014 6:26:00 AM PST by spokeshave (OMG.......Schadenfreude overload is not covered under Obamacare :-()
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To: Red in Blue PA; Crazieman

>>Agree. Back during the period after Hurricane Sandy, some gas stations were charging $6.00 per gallon. Some called that gouging.

Same after Katrina. We were traveling to the FL panhandle immediately post-Katrina. We were glad to pay for gas at that price level. It isn’t gouging unless there is a monopoly.


42 posted on 01/27/2014 6:26:16 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: VerySadAmerican; norwaypinesavage; Hank Hill

>>You’re Hank Hill, aren’t you.

No, Hank Hill is Hank Hill!


43 posted on 01/27/2014 6:36:16 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: raisincane

Who ya got?

I get mine from Shelby.

I’ve no idea the price yet.


44 posted on 01/27/2014 6:48:11 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: freedomfiter2

What ‘shortage’?

I thought FRACKING had VASTLY increased ‘supply’!!!


45 posted on 01/27/2014 6:48:55 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: palmer

Where do you think that TSC gets IT’s gas from?


46 posted on 01/27/2014 6:50:37 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Ben Ficklin

Economics drives Everything; eventually.

We use gasoline in most all vehicles, then diesel (which is almost identical to fuel oil) then CNG/propane then electric.

I’d like to see a chart of the cost per BTU of each type of fuel:

Wood,
NG,
propane,
coal,
electricity...


47 posted on 01/27/2014 6:55:20 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Pre-buy contracts signed in October-November are one simple answer to the price run up.

They also bite your fannie if the price goes DOWN!

48 posted on 01/27/2014 6:56:51 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: FreedomPoster
It isn’t gouging unless there is a monopoly.

Then it's called Price Fixing: which is, I believe, illegal in many places.

49 posted on 01/27/2014 6:58:51 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

We do it every winter for our little rental cabin. We keep it at 55 during the winter months.


50 posted on 01/27/2014 7:00:13 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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