Natural Gas Locomotives May Prove Cheaper, Cleaner

AP via ABC News ^ | January 23, 2014 | JOSH FUNK

[minnesota_bound]

burning both diesel and liquefied natural gas...
Now with bigger explosions when the train derails!

[Dr. Sivana]

I am not quite understanding this,having just read an article about how natural gas is expected to be increasing in cost.

Even factoring in a likely price increase, the price differential is enough, and the supply is stable enough, to warrant consideration.

[X-spurt]

Following up on C_A’s question, what would it take for rural propane suppliers to switch over to offering LNG?

[Maine Mariner]

A couple of Great Lakes iron ore freighters are being converted to LNG. And of course LNG carrying ships have used LNG as a fuel for their engines.

[Rodamala]

And everyone thought that these unit crude oil trains were rolling bombs?

These fuel tenders of LNG will be right next to the power... no “cover cars” as all railroads require for other Hazmat.

I invite everyone to search the web for the term “BLEVE”.

[norwaypinesavage]

"In Russia you may easily convert any vehicle using internal combustion to either natgas or propane for $200-1500."

Maybe so, but that only works for carbureted engines. All locomotives in the US are diesels. It's far more complicated to burn natural gas in a diesel engine. For one, simply injecting natural gas instead of diesel fuel, produces much soot. That's right, soot. Diesel fuel disperses quite evenly in a cylinder. Gas vapors do not. This produces uneven burning, and hence soot. I'll dare to bet that there are no production conversions from liquid diesel fueled engines to natural gas fueled engines, other than an engine replacement.

[norwaypinesavage]

"It doesn’t require much modification to allow a diesel to run mostly on natural gas."

I disagree completely. Diesel engines run at much higher compression ratios than carbureted engines (22:1 vs. 10:1). Changing compression ratios requires major engine changes, including among other things, crankshafts, pistons, and camshafts.

[norwaypinesavage]

"then new locomotives can replace the heavy reciprocating engine with a lighter turbine, and save even more fuel."

Locomotives need weight in order to provide traction to start and accelerate the train. They would need to add ballast to compensate for a lighter engine. They already have sandboxes to distribute sand to the tracks in order to enhance friction. This is not good to use regularly since it wears out the tracks and tires. (I know, I know, railroads don't use tires. Actually, though, they do. It's just that the tires are made of steel.)

[cunning_fish]

Regular v8 KamAZ diesel.
http://m.youtube.com/results?q=%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B7%20%D0%BD%D0%B0%20%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%B7%D1%83&sm=3
These guys can put it on Dodge RAM too.

[central_va]

If you live in rural America your problems are not important or do not exist to the power structure, NOBODY is talking about the “propane problem”. It is a big deal in my life, and millions of others that use propane. We are being literary skinned and nobody in the MSM or anyone else talks about it. But bless it if somebody doesn’t get their EBT card on time, that is national news and a “travesty”.

[faucetman]

Can you say BOOM!

[faucetman]

We don’t have to convert EVERYTHING! Some things work well just the way they are. Sometimes just tinkering around the edges is enough.

[nascarnation]

I used to have a propane heated house and I understand your pain. I think your best options (other than moving) are supplemental wood fueled heating, and getting a 1000 gal tank and filling in summer and avoiding all cold weather fills.

[JimRed]

Natural gas "may revolutionize the industry much like the transition from steam from wood burning, then coal burning, to diesel,"...

[thackney]

Most of the early changes will be retrofitting existing engines with additional fuel system. It will be far cheaper than new engines.

I don’t know if the vibration of the locomotive will work out to an economic solution with a turbine in the long term.

[thackney]

I believe that even a doubling of natural gas prices (from recent increases) when purchasing in industrial sized volumes, would be significantly cheaper than diesel.

[longtermmemmory]

yet another boon pickens scam?

[thackney]

LNG will not burn or explode. It first has to be warmed to a vapor, then mixed approximate 10 to 1 with air before it will ignite. By then the majority has risen up far above the ignition sources. LNG is a very safe fuel, when used outdoors.

[thackney]

LNG is not going to be a good source for a residential customer. It must stay refrigerated at all time to -260°F.

In a system that NEVER stops consuming significant volumes, autorefrigeration takes place as the boil off consumes heat in the tank.

But this would not be the case for residential user. You need a ratio of consumption to tank volume that consumes the tank in hours, possible a few days, not several months.

[thackney]

LNG will not ignite. See above post for more info.