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Milton Friedman on "Equality" (a single minute of absolute brilliance to rebut the liberals)
youtube ^

Posted on 01/27/2014 8:13:38 AM PST by cotton1706

"In my opinion, a society that aims for equality before liberty, will end up with neither equality nor liberty. And a society that aims first for liberty, will not end up with equality, but it will end up with a closer approach to equality, than any other kind of system than has ever been developed.

Now that conclusion, is based both on evidence across history, and also I believe, on reasoning, which if you try to follow through the implications of aiming first at equality, will become clear to you.

You can only aim at equality, by giving some people the right to take things from others. And what ultimately happens when you aim at equality, is that A and B decide what C shall do for D...except that they take a little bit of a commission off on the way."

(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: elections; equality; friedman

1 posted on 01/27/2014 8:13:38 AM PST by cotton1706
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To: cotton1706
That's my guy! :)
2 posted on 01/27/2014 8:15:47 AM PST by Diana in Wisconsin (I don't have 'Hobbies.' I'm developing a robust Post-Apocalyptic skill set...)
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To: Diana in Wisconsin

His is greatly missed.


3 posted on 01/27/2014 8:18:24 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
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To: cotton1706

Reality-based common sense


4 posted on 01/27/2014 8:20:29 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: FReepers

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

5 posted on 01/27/2014 8:28:32 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: cotton1706
Milton was a great writer and thinker. See this article in, of all places, The Atlantic.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/if-you-really-care-about-ending-poverty-stop-talking-about-inequality/282906/

6 posted on 01/27/2014 8:35:52 AM PST by elhombrelibre
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To: cotton1706

For later.


7 posted on 01/27/2014 8:53:20 AM PST by matthew fuller (Our enemy list- http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2004/anti-gun-lobbying-organizations..)
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To: cotton1706
1) He assumed dollars would eventually come back to the U.S. to buy trade goods. Instead they are coming back to buy U.S. manufacturing firms and know how and U.S. debt.

2) He assumed that unemployed would always be able to find other productive employment. And while the economy's labor markets do try to find a new equilibrium, we are now at the point that we are off-shoring jobs faster than we are creating new ones. Unemployment is growing. Real wages have stagnated since we lowered the import tariffs in the 1960's. And now we are seeing real wages fall.

"John Hawkins: Let me ask you about this — what do you say to people who claim that free trade will eventually lead to high unemployment in the US as large numbers of jobs move to cheaper labor markets overseas?"

"Milton Friedman: Well, they only consider half of the problem. If you move jobs overseas, it creates incomes and dollars overseas. What do they do with that dollar income? Sooner or later it will be used to purchase US goods and that produces jobs in the United States."

The stores are full of Chinese made goods and Americans are unemployed. Thanks Freedman.


8 posted on 01/27/2014 9:02:04 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: cotton1706
Freedman's assumptions about free trade were wrong.

1) He assumed dollars would eventually come back to the U.S. to buy trade goods. Instead they are coming back to buy U.S. manufacturing firms and know how and U.S. debt.

2) He assumed that unemployed would always be able to find other productive employment. And while the economy's labor markets do try to find a new equilibrium, we are now at the point that we are off-shoring jobs faster than we are creating new ones. Unemployment is growing. Real wages have stagnated since we lowered the import tariffs in the 1960's. And now we are seeing real wages fall.

"John Hawkins: Let me ask you about this — what do you say to people who claim that free trade will eventually lead to high unemployment in the US as large numbers of jobs move to cheaper labor markets overseas?"

"Milton Friedman: Well, they only consider half of the problem. If you move jobs overseas, it creates incomes and dollars overseas. What do they do with that dollar income? Sooner or later it will be used to purchase US goods and that produces jobs in the United States."

The stores are full of Chinese made goods and Americans are unemployed. Thanks Freedman.


9 posted on 01/27/2014 9:02:31 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: cotton1706

When A proposes to do B to C for the benefit of D, A is a scoundrel. - H. L. Mencken


10 posted on 01/27/2014 9:19:51 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (In the long run, we are all dead.)
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To: DannyTN

I haven’t been a free trader since I read Pat Buchanan’s book The Great Betrayal.

As tariffs have gone down, income taxes have gone up. I’m for a revenue, not a protective tariff, basically a cover charge to get into the American market. Say, 5-10%, which is not a “trade barrier” but a cover charge.

I’m sure the Smoot and Hawley argument crowd will be parachuting in in 3...2...1...


11 posted on 01/27/2014 9:43:22 AM PST by cotton1706
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To: cotton1706; DannyTN

Free Trade doesn’t work for a myriad of reasons...of course the biggest one is the other side must Free Trade with you...but does not.

Most nations put a Value Added Tax on US Imports...right there that is a tariff on US goods...and such is allowed by the World Trade Organization. The US is robbed when not countering with a tariff.

Smoot-Hawley Tariff not the cause of the Great Depression as many Free Traders claim. Europe had already tariffed and blocked goods coming from the Americas...S-H had to be done to counter


12 posted on 01/27/2014 9:55:17 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (Amnesty And Not Ending ObamaCare Will Kill GOP In 2014)
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To: cotton1706
I found this comment on another Friedman video:

Why didn't I learn about this economist in high school? Seems to me the educational motives of the public school system are meant to churn out loyal obedient subjects and discourage critical thought and dissenters.

Breaks my hear to hear this question asked. But it looks like this person is on the right track, thankfully.

My intellectual journey began with Milton Friedman and ended with Thomas Aquinas. Truth will set you free.

13 posted on 01/27/2014 10:04:56 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: SeminoleCounty

Free trade doesn’t work between nations who are not equal, or where the playing field is not equal. A 32 dollar an hour union worker cannot compete with a 32 cent per hour worker in a foreign country. Nothing to do with unions in particular, just an example of dealing with whatever realities there are.

George Washington said a tariff should be at least the cost of shipping an item from a foreign country to here, so that like products (foreign and domestic) could compete equally.

Free trade does work within a like structure, for example, the United States was the greatest free trade area ever created, for states could not tax other states. But we had tariffs on imports.

“Tariffs at the gates, and free trade within” is a formula that works.

Milton Friedman was right about free trade working in regard to competition lowering prices. However, between unequal nations, tariffs should not be at zero. We should never have joined the WTO or ratified the GATT treaty, we can thank Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole for going along with a lame duck democrat congress in 1994 for that!


14 posted on 01/27/2014 10:05:43 AM PST by cotton1706
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To: DannyTN
Freedman's assumptions about free trade were wrong.

If tariffs are beneficial to countries, in the aggregate, why don't we establish tariffs between the states?

15 posted on 01/27/2014 10:06:58 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: SeminoleCounty
Free Trade doesn’t work for a myriad of reasons...of course the biggest one is the other side must Free Trade with you...but does not.

Then they have a pile of green pieces of paper, and we have iPads.

16 posted on 01/27/2014 10:08:37 AM PST by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
"If tariffs are beneficial to countries, in the aggregate, why don't we establish tariffs between the states?"

Because while the lack of a tariff might hurt a particular state, it benefits all the states as a whole. And we are one nation with consistent laws.

Likewise Free Trade hurts America but benefits the world. China is far better off, because of America's free trade policies than they would have been. But America is worse off.

17 posted on 01/27/2014 10:10:45 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
"Then they have a pile of green pieces of paper, and we have iPads. "

They use those pile of green pieces of paper to buy U.S. firms and know how and U.S. debt. Now we have to buy our bacon from Chinese owned firms and we owe them interest to boot.

18 posted on 01/27/2014 10:12:35 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas
"Then they have a pile of green pieces of paper, and we have iPads. "

They use those pile of green pieces of paper to buy U.S. firms and know how and U.S. debt. Now we have to buy our bacon from Chinese owned firms and we owe them interest to boot.

19 posted on 01/27/2014 10:12:35 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: DannyTN

Your error is in thinking that we have “free” trade now. We don’t. What we have is fascism being called free trade.


20 posted on 01/27/2014 10:18:45 AM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: DannyTN

China’s on the verge of revolution because of the middle class demanding higher wages. Poor people who make nice things for rich people eventually develop an appetite for the things they make.

Friedman was right, and Japan and the Asian Tigers were only the latest evidence of how the market always seeks to balance an imbalance.

Used to be Japanese labor was cheap. Used to be that Indonesian, Vietnamese, and Malaysian labor was cheap. Used to be you could move your back office to India and save money without losing quality (yeah, right).

What happened? Only the very thing Friedman was talking about.

Get this correct - Americans are out of work because US companies cannot repatriate foreign profits without losing their shirts.

We have the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world.

That, and only that, is the reason why the jobs aren’t coming back, because there are a lot of jobs that left the US in the 90’s that are beating down the door because of the hammering those companies took shipping them over in the first place.

Fast, good, or cheap - you can pick only two. Introduce a disruptive technological improvement and you can have all three, but only until the patent expires, or you sell the rights for others to use it.


21 posted on 01/27/2014 10:21:23 AM PST by RinaseaofDs
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To: DannyTN
"(T)he supporters of tariffs treat it as self-evident that the creation of jobs is a desirable end, in and of itself, regardless of what the persons employed do. That is clearly wrong. If all we want are jobs, we can create any number -- for example, have people dig holes and then fill them up again, or perform other useless tasks. Work is sometimes its own reward. Mostly, however, it is the price we pay to get the things we want. Our real objective is not just jobs but productive jobs -- jobs that will mean more goods and services to consume."
--Milton Friedman

22 posted on 01/27/2014 10:30:00 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: cotton1706

ping


23 posted on 01/27/2014 11:04:02 AM PST by gattaca (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left. Ecclesiastes10:2)
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To: 1rudeboy
Don't dissagree with Freedman on that.

Incentive/Disincentive effects aside, I'd rather pay somebody to have free time or jobs search time, than pay them for make work.

But we are not talking about make work. We are talking about productive jobs and productive industries. We are talking about America's strength in terms of productive capacity and independence from foreign nations. And we are talking about putting Americans to work vs putting Chinese to work.

24 posted on 01/27/2014 11:42:36 AM PST by DannyTN (A>)
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To: cotton1706
As tariffs have gone down, income taxes have gone up.

No kidding. We dropped tariffs after WWII, when income tax rates topped out at 90%, and when Reagan left office, the top income tax rate was 28%.

I blame falling tariffs.

basically a cover charge to get into the American market. Say, 5-10%

You want Americans to pay your cover charge? But we're already here.

25 posted on 01/27/2014 2:19:08 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: cotton1706
A 32 dollar an hour union worker cannot compete with a 32 cent per hour worker in a foreign country.

If the union worker isn't 100 times more productive than some joker making 32 cents an hour in Dumputzistan, he must be working for GM.

George Washington said a tariff should be at least the cost of shipping an item from a foreign country to here, so that like products (foreign and domestic) could compete equally.

He said that? Where?

He wanted the $5 shipping charge to have a $5 tax slapped on as well? Sounds like an extra $10 would not make the like products compete equally.

Sounds like something you pulled out of your ass. I'm sure Washington was much better at math than you. LOL!

26 posted on 01/27/2014 2:25:46 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: Toddsterpatriot

“Sounds like something you pulled out of your ass. I’m sure Washington was much better at math than you. LOL!”

I can’t find the quote. I haven’t read this book in years. But the Tariff Act of 1789 was the second bill signed by Washington as president, a protective tariff, to protect and encourage domestic manufacture by making foreign goods of equal price or more expensive.

We did the same in the 18 teens, when Europe tried to flood the American market with goods. Have you read any trade history?


27 posted on 01/27/2014 4:22:59 PM PST by cotton1706
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To: cotton1706
But the Tariff Act of 1789 was the second bill signed by Washington as president, a protective tariff, to protect and encourage domestic manufacture by making foreign goods of equal price or more expensive.

Yes, tariffs can protect infant industry by making foreign goods more expensive. Tariffs cannot reduce the impact of shipping costs.

28 posted on 01/27/2014 4:32:42 PM PST by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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