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Judge allows climate scientist compared to child molester to sue for libel.
Monterey Weekly ^ | January 28, 2014 | David Schmalz

Posted on 01/30/2014 3:17:04 PM PST by artichokegrower

It’s hardly notable when a climate scientist’s findings come under attack from right wing pundits, but it definitely turns heads if they compare that scientist to a child molester. Even more unusual is if that scientist—in this case, Penn State climatologist Michael Mann—retaliates by suing for libel.

(Excerpt) Read more at montereycountyweekly.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: globalwarminghoax; marksteyn; memebuilding; michaelmann; nationalreview; partisanmediashill; partisanmediashills; randsimberg
The statement was originally posted by CEI’s Rand Simberg and then re-posted on National Review’s blog by Mark Steyn, both of whom are included in the lawsuit.


Poor ol' Mark Steyn getting sued again. Didn't the entire nation of Canada sue him once?

1 posted on 01/30/2014 3:17:04 PM PST by artichokegrower
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To: artichokegrower

Well child molester is pretty low of the low. In fact, there is only one niche lower: politician. But then, I [essentially] repeat myself.


2 posted on 01/30/2014 3:22:33 PM PST by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: artichokegrower

My prediction is at the end of the day Michael Mann’s libel suit will do every bit as much for him as Oscar Wilde’s suit did for him.


3 posted on 01/30/2014 3:23:47 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

What exactly constitutes discovery in these cases?


4 posted on 01/30/2014 3:24:48 PM PST by Black Agnes
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To: C210N

He’s more of a child abuser for pimping this damaging crap and scaring children.


5 posted on 01/30/2014 3:27:00 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: C210N

[ Well child molester is pretty low of the low. In fact, there is only one niche lower: politician. But then, I [essentially] repeat myself. ]

Child Molesters and Progressive Politicians are essentially the same in their tactics.

They lure the innocent/ignorant into their vans/votes with the promise of free candy/stuff then they screw them over repeatedly.

Climate Change shills are also like child molesters that are relatives, they will say don’t tell anyone about this or that our data is faked or I will make you sorry by telling the people around you that you are bad child/person when in fact you are the victim of the molester that is making up lies about you.

But that is my take.

I think Mark Steyn’s argument has merit.

Mark needs to get US citizenship so he can tell Canada and their lack of free speech to go pound sand.


6 posted on 01/30/2014 3:27:52 PM PST by GraceG
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To: artichokegrower

Comparing someone to a child molester in style, but not actual deed is not the same as calling him a child molester.


7 posted on 01/30/2014 3:28:58 PM PST by Dr. Sivana ("We are not sluts."--Sandra Fluke)
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To: Black Agnes

You ask an outstanding question because to my knowledge no other alarmist has filed such a suit. I should think the defendants will be asking for all of Mann’s research files that he has stonewalled at producing for anyone to check his work. I would want all the Climategate emails. Mr. Mann may have opened Pandora’s box by exposing his work to someone he can’t control.


8 posted on 01/30/2014 3:29:08 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: C210N

Well, this is pedophile state, and he is part of their staff.


9 posted on 01/30/2014 3:31:04 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Black Agnes

Good question.

Our noble scientist may have opened a can of worms he would wish closed.


10 posted on 01/30/2014 3:31:40 PM PST by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: colorado tanker

The heart of this case is not the child molestation comparison, it’s the claim that Mann’s work is fraudulent.

In the final analysis, that determination will come down to the definition assigned “fraudulent,” and to arguments about validity of various methods of statistical analysis of Mann’s data.

One up side is that Mann will probably be forced, for the first time, to actually release his raw data.

The last time Steyn tangled on a vaguely similar issue, he not only won, but Canada repealed the law under which he had been charged and dismantled the entire court system he was tried in.


11 posted on 01/30/2014 3:32:09 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: artichokegrower

Climate change deniers? Oh, come on. No one denies that the climate changes. Hell, it changes here daily.


12 posted on 01/30/2014 3:34:44 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: artichokegrower
Actually, Free Dominion has been shut down over a similar lawsuit in Canada.

The case is being appealed, but the initial ruling holds that the host of a site can be held liable for the statements made by the posters.

As far as Mann goes, when one considers the implications of the fable, the hockey stick, and the damage done to science and scientific discourse and inquiry, not to mention the economic devastation wrought in the name of stopping a natural process attributed to humans (but in hiatus), merely destroying one child's innocence and damaging them for life (not a crime I view lightly) pales in comparison to what has been done to billions of people.

13 posted on 01/30/2014 3:35:07 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Sherman Logan
You are probably the first poster to have actually read the column.
14 posted on 01/30/2014 3:36:43 PM PST by Jacquerie (Restore federalism and freedom. Repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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Not that climate change denial should not be illegal. And the harshest penalties possible imposed on deniers. Public hangings ought to make them come around to the Democrat way of thinking.


15 posted on 01/30/2014 3:37:45 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Sherman Logan

That’s what I thought when I read it as well.

I wonder if Mann’s legal counsel has explained to him he might have to release data of some sort.


16 posted on 01/30/2014 3:38:55 PM PST by Black Agnes
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To: artichokegrower

Steyn was actually making a comparison between the respective university cover ups, not directly comparing Mann to a child molester.


17 posted on 01/30/2014 3:39:20 PM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: artichokegrower
From the linked article: "... for Mann to win his case, his lawyers must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the statement was published maliciously, and with knowledge of its falsity."

"Beyond a reasonable doubt"? That sounds like a suspiciously high burden of proof for a civil case.

It will be interesting to see how Mann fares in an arena not necessarily sympathetic to "scientists".

18 posted on 01/30/2014 3:40:09 PM PST by William Tell
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To: Sherman Logan

The child molester comparison was in how Penn State whitewashed both investigations of him and of Sandusky in pretty much the same way, and both investigations included very similar statements made by the same people in Penn State’s administration.


19 posted on 01/30/2014 3:43:53 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Jacquerie

I hate to break an ancient Freeper tradition. Do you think I can be forgiven?

To be fair, I’ve been following this case for a long time.

The interesting thing here, to me, is that Mann claims the privileges of a private citizen and a disinterested scientist, while very obviously acting as a partisan public figure and an activist promoting particular policies. I doubt he can be both.


20 posted on 01/30/2014 3:44:18 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Jim Robinson

Be sure to include “and evil man caused it” to the climate change equation. Mann and the other AGW shills should all go down not just as Child abusers, but also as Elder Abusers, too — they make me feel very violated by their lies and corruption that will affect my quality of life.

Pandora’s Box, indeed - here is a link to recent Senate testimony by a Climatologist from Georgia Tech:

http://www.climatedepot.com/2014/01/16/climatologist-dr-judith-currys-testimony-at-senate-climate-hearing-attempts-to-modify-the-climate-through-reducing-co2-emissions-may-turn-out-to-be-futile-un-ipcc-now-making-a-weaker-case/


21 posted on 01/30/2014 3:54:32 PM PST by Sioux-san
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To: Sherman Logan
The interesting thing here, to me, is that Mann claims the privileges of a private citizen and a disinterested scientist, while very obviously acting as a partisan public figure and an activist promoting particular policies. I doubt he can be both.

We are long past the days of impartially applied justice. Given an Clinton or Obama appointed judge I believe the court will certainly allow it.

22 posted on 01/30/2014 3:56:16 PM PST by RightOnTheBorder
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To: Sherman Logan
I agree. The comparison to Sandusky and saying Mann molested his data is opinion and satire that can't support a libel charge.

The key is the claim Mann engaged in science fraud and it will be decided by a court, not by some rubber stamp committee of his colleagues.

I'm sure they are in touch with the scientists who exposed the hockey stick. That fraud should be easy to prove.

23 posted on 01/30/2014 3:56:54 PM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Smokin' Joe
The case is being appealed, but the initial ruling holds that the host of a site can be held liable for the statements made by the posters.

Interesting. So if someone on DU were to make libelous claims, DU could be held for libel?

But, wait! DU is liberal site. No (liberal/Dem) judge would allow that to go forward (using the current Dem favorite, "No standing").

24 posted on 01/30/2014 3:58:12 PM PST by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: lepton; Sherman Logan; Jim Robinson
Here is an article about Professor Manns troubles before the Sandusky thing. (from November 30 2009)

It is interesting for reference as to the method that Penn State used to investigate Mann.

Quoting from the article..

"The University is looking into this matter further, following a well defined policy used in such cases. No public discussion of the matter will occur while the University is reviewing the concerns that have been raised."

25 posted on 01/30/2014 3:58:19 PM PST by whodathunkit
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To: Dr. Sivana
Comparing someone to a child molester in style, but not actual deed is not the same as calling him a child molester.

Yep, that is the key to the case.

26 posted on 01/30/2014 3:59:47 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Sioux-san

Why do the globull warmingists now call it climate change? Hot today, chile tamale.


27 posted on 01/30/2014 4:00:02 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: whodathunkit

Only in a totalitarian state like Nazi Germany. Or Democrat America.


28 posted on 01/30/2014 4:01:21 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Valpal1
Steyn was actually making a comparison between the respective university cover ups, not directly comparing Mann to a child molester.

Here is the quote:

Simberg [the other defendant, not Steyn] called Mann “the Jerry Sandusky of climate science, except that instead of molesting children, he has molested and tortured data in the service of politicized science that could have dire economic consequences for the nation and planet.”

The judge, in allowing the case to move forward to trial, found that while ‘opinions and rhetorical hyperbole’ are protected speech under the First Amendment, statements that call into question a scientist’s work could be understood as factual assertions that go to the ‘heart of scientific integrity.’

“‘To state as a fact that a scientist dishonestly molests or tortures data to serve a political agenda would have a strong likelihood of damaging his reputation within his profession, which is the very essence of defamation,’ he said.”

There is a wealth of information out there that shows how Mann selectively used/misused data to justify his hockey stick graph. Steyn should prevail provided the trial court allows entry into the record of the climate change fraud data and evidence of a conspiracy between Mann and others to fudge data to support their results. Whether that will happen remains to be determined.

29 posted on 01/30/2014 4:03:02 PM PST by CedarDave (Obama - Lord of the LIES!)
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To: jeffc

It apparently could in Canada...with biased results.


30 posted on 01/30/2014 4:05:45 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Sherman Logan

Some pertinent law here.

http://www.freedomforum.org/packages/first/defamationandfirstamendment/

For these reasons, the court set up a different standard for private persons:

We hold that, so long as they do not impose liability without fault, the States may define for themselves the appropriate standard of liability for a publisher or broadcaster of defamatory falsehood injurious to a private individual.19

This standard means that a private person does not have to show that a defendant acted with actual malice in order to prevail in a defamation suit. The private plaintiff usually must show simply that the defendant was negligent, or at fault. However, the high court also ruled that private defamation plaintiffs could not recover punitive damages unless they showed evidence of actual malice.

In its opinion, the high court also determined that certain persons could be classified as limited-purpose public figures with respect to a certain controversy. The court noted that full-fledged public figures achieve “pervasive fame or notoriety.” However, the court noted that sometimes an individual “injects himself or is drawn into a particular public controversy and thereby becomes a public figure for a limited range of issues.”20 These limited-purpose public figures also have to meet the actual-malice standard.


31 posted on 01/30/2014 4:06:14 PM PST by abb
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To: Jim Robinson

I agree with Lord Monckton calling America’s top climatologist, NASA’s James Hansen, “a fully-paid-up member of the new regime,” who has “one of the unfailing hallmarks of Nazism and Fascism everywhere.”


32 posted on 01/30/2014 4:06:49 PM PST by artichokegrower
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To: Sioux-san

Dr. Judith Curry, one of the war sits involved in the global warming causes worse hurricanes study...but who since then nonetheless is intellectually honest enough to be ashamed of some of the more outrageous warmest stuff from her colleagues.


33 posted on 01/30/2014 4:08:47 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: lepton

Warmists


34 posted on 01/30/2014 4:19:26 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: artichokegrower
you mean he's NOT??? coulda fooled me...

35 posted on 01/30/2014 4:19:39 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: artichokegrower

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/01/michael_mann_the_penn_state_pr.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Michael Mann: The Penn State professor who went from stormless scientist to climate crusader


36 posted on 01/30/2014 4:23:15 PM PST by abb
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To: artichokegrower

Actually, shouldn’t the Chesters be suing Mark for comparing climate scientists to them?


37 posted on 01/30/2014 4:24:58 PM PST by RichInOC (No! BAD Rich! (What'd I say?))
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To: C210N

Mann should have used the Larry Flynt “humor is a FIRST Amendment Right” defense, “You’re a Mother F-c-er analogy”, instead using the “Shower Analogy”, the latter was approved by the SCOTUS IIRC. I would guess it is not yet too late.
Larry how are those he/she/it dirty diapers working out for you?


38 posted on 01/30/2014 4:26:02 PM PST by BilLies ("Will none rid me of this lying bastard ?")
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To: BilLies

Obviously s/h/b “CEI’s Rand Simberg s/h/used”.
Shutting off my beer for the evening.


39 posted on 01/30/2014 4:29:59 PM PST by BilLies ("Will none rid me of this lying bastard ?")
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To: CedarDave

That’s Simberg’s metaphore, not Steyn’s. It sickens me that the judge is apparently allowing “quotes” to be lifted out of an opinion piece instead of looking at the article in its totality and allowing the suit to go forward.

Our judges are quite politically corrupt, it would be nice if Steyn does for us what he did for Canada.


40 posted on 01/30/2014 4:32:52 PM PST by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Sherman Logan
Sure, its a refreshing departure from the norm at FR.

Force is all that liberals understand. I wish conservatives were willing to get down in the mud and fight the left on an equal basis. The Left doesn't best their opponents in the arena of ideas, they use lawfare to destroy conservatives. We could use a couple junkyard dog law firms to financially destroy the lives of a few prominent rats.

41 posted on 01/30/2014 4:45:04 PM PST by Jacquerie (Restore federalism and freedom. Repeal the 17th. Article V.)
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To: Valpal1

Mark Steyn’s crime

Football and Hockey
By Mark Steyn
July 15, 2012

In the wake of Louis Freeh’s report on Penn State’s complicity in serial rape, Rand Simberg writes of Unhappy Valley’s other scandal:

I’m referring to another cover up and whitewash that occurred there two years ago, before we learned how rotten and corrupt the culture at the university was. But now that we know how bad it was, perhaps it’s time that we revisit the Michael Mann affair, particularly given how much we’ve also learned about his and others’ hockey-stick deceptions since. Mann could be said to be the Jerry Sandusky of climate science, except that instead of molesting children, he has molested and tortured data in the service of politicized science that could have dire economic consequences for the nation and planet.

Not sure I’d have extended that metaphor all the way into the locker-room showers with quite the zeal Mr Simberg does, but he has a point. Michael Mann was the man behind the fraudulent climate-change “hockey-stick” graph, the very ringmaster of the tree-ring circus. And, when the East Anglia emails came out, Penn State felt obliged to “investigate” Professor Mann. Graham Spanier, the Penn State president forced to resign over Sandusky, was the same cove who investigated Mann. And, as with Sandusky and Paterno, the college declined to find one of its star names guilty of any wrongdoing.

If an institution is prepared to cover up systemic statutory rape of minors, what won’t it cover up? Whether or not he’s “the Jerry Sandusky of climate change”, he remains the Michael Mann of climate change, in part because his “investigation” by a deeply corrupt administration was a joke.


42 posted on 01/30/2014 4:52:52 PM PST by artichokegrower
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To: Jim Robinson; All


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43 posted on 01/30/2014 5:18:41 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: jeffc
That happened in a Canadian Court thread here We need to keep such precedents from happening this side of the border or our 1st Amendment will be dead.

After all, I have no doubt the courts would pursue DU with the same vigour they have pursued the videotaped rants of Malik Shabazz intended to chase away white voters (none at all).

44 posted on 01/30/2014 8:19:09 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Jim Robinson

These numb-nuts are so stupid, they hold their AGW conferences in the winter when it is snowing up a storm. That still doesn’t stop them from saying that the snow is a direct result of AGW. Good ol’ Bette Midler is on Breitbart saying just that today. These are very stupid people who work for the Enemy - they should be openly ridiculed for being such moronic shills.


45 posted on 01/30/2014 8:43:24 PM PST by Sioux-san
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To: artichokegrower

Here’s the real goal.

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/30/a_defamation_lawsuit_may_kill_national_review/

A defamation lawsuit may kill National Review


46 posted on 01/31/2014 2:18:37 AM PST by abb
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Thanks artichokegrower.

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/30/a_defamation_lawsuit_may_kill_national_review/


47 posted on 02/01/2014 8:35:08 AM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: artichokegrower
In the statement, Simberg calls Mann “the Jerry Sandusky of climate science, except that instead of molesting children, he has molested and tortured data in the service of politicized science that could have dire economic consequences for the nation and planet.” Stern then writes: “Not sure I’d have extended that metaphor all the way into the locker-room showers with quite the zeal Mr Simberg does, but he has a point.”

He has a point...

48 posted on 02/01/2014 12:00:36 PM PST by GOPJ (Liberals never let something as petty as being 100% wrong stop them - Blood of Tyrants)
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