Skip to comments.Obamacare's 'mandate' meltdown
Posted on 02/01/2014 11:05:07 AM PST by 1rudeboy
The president and his Democratic allies are finding it harder to make people buy insurance than theyd expected. Will Obamacares individual mandate survive?
Last month, the administration announced that anyone with a canceled 2013 individual insurance plan would be exempt from the individual-responsibility requirement this year, and would be allowed to buy the catastrophe-only insurance previously offered to those age 30 or under.
This exemption is likely only the first of many. How, for one, can the administration exempt people who had insurance last year but not exempt people who were uninsured because they couldnt afford coverage?
Obamacares architects were always ambivalent about the mandate. They knew compulsion was necessary to make their system work but, fearing a backlash, opted for a fairly weak penalty for those who didnt obey. Oops: They wound up with a mandate that still provokes resentment, yet probably wont work.
The US Supreme Court weakened the mandate even as it was saving Obamacare. The laws authors hoped that the mandate would create the perception that insurance enrollment is now obligatory, but the high court made it clear that Congress has no authority to institute such a requirement. The justices ruled that the mandate could stand only as an optional tax, not as a fine for noncompliance.
So youre not breaking the law by not buying (overpriced) Obamacare-compliant insurance; youre just making the legal choice to pay the tax instead.
And that tax will generally be far lower than Obamacare premiums. Thats the clear conclusion of a new study by the 2017 Project, which compares premiums in the Obamacare exchanges in the 50 most populous US counties to the tax that households could pay instead.
(Excerpt) Read more at aei.org ...
The penalty ‘tax’ will go up and up.
People that think that the IRS cant force you to pay the penalty tax are wrong.
Its been stated that they can only take the penalty from any tax refund you may have coming but what will happen is they will take the penalty from your payroll tax first and say that at the end of the year you owe more taxes.
They know how to collect unpaid taxes.
Mark my words, they will apply the penalty first and anything payed in after the penalty is covered will apply to your taxes.
My thinking is that “Civil Disobedience” is going to garner a WHOLE LOT of attention in the coming years.
If enough people refuse to sign up for Ophonybamacare, there is no way in HELL that the IRS can police it.
And, if they try to, then “Civil Disobedience” will take on a WHOLE NEW MEANING!
Stand by, FReepers!
Plan for the worst, hope for the best!
The mandate, though is an essential part of the scheme because without it you would also have to allow denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions. The two go hand in hand.
If you get rid of the mandate but continue to require insurers to cover new sick people, there is no longer any reason for anyone in the country to buy “insurance” until they get sick.
Yours is a FINE ARGUMENT for replacing the income tax with a National Retail Sales Tax (i.e., the FairTax) and ABOLISHING THE IRS!
Thanks for making it for me!
As long as the penalty is even $1 less than the cost of coverage... people will choose to pay the penalty and only bother to get coverage when they actually get sick or hurt, at which point they by law are not allowed to be denied coverage.
If a huge fraction of the populace become criminals by not paying the tax, this has serious potential to undermine the rule of law in the U.S. When you have to lie, cheat, deceive and steal to survive, there are broad societal implications; this could perhaps completely undermine what’s left of Western civilization.
Well what you said is possible. They did hire an additional 15,000 attorneys and accounts to administer this....
Quiet, anonymous, and often complicitous, lawbreaking and disobedience may well be the historically preferred mode of political action for peasant and subaltern classes, for whom open defiance is too dangerous
.One need not have an actual conspiracy to achieve the practical effects of a conspiracy. More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called Irish Democracythe silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary peoplethan by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs. Link
I had a catastrophic-care individual policy that cost me about $240 per month. It was cancelled by Obamacare 12/31/13 and I was offered replacement coverage at triple that, along with the mandates for maternity care - which was ridiculous because I am a 61 year-old single male who had a vasectomy in 1984.
I just cancelled and am running bare.
I only had 3 physicians in my lifetime. The first was the guy who delivered me in 1952 and saw me through all the usual childhood diseases (usually through house calls at $10 per, then had the discourtesy to die in 1972.
The second was a guy who treated me to a successful vasectomy after the birth of my second child in 1984.
The third was a guy who barely spoke English who diagnosed 4 broken ribs in 7 places and prescribed some pain medication, muscle relaxants, and a lung exercise device - supposedly to prevent me from contracting pneumonia. I won't even say what that experience cost me - even with insurance.
Hey, I may even quit filing tax returns, if that's what it takes.
Let the feds come put me in prison. 3 hots and a cot, health care, cable television, library, etc., etc. That's a lot better than what I have right now.
This was the goal all along. If people signed up, great. The government gets a kickback from insurance programs and massive new taxes on a plethora of things. If people don’t sign up, great, get those taxes plus more taxes from people who don’t have insurance. Those taxes will never go away and the amount they tax will always rise. It’s all about feeding the beast.
Congressional democrats enacted this monsterous un-affordable care act, now the pseudo-president amends it at will. Where did America go?
I surely hope that this is true and we're not fooling ourselves like we did about how Romney was going to win because of a lack of obama stickers, signs, anecdotals of workplace comments, etc., etc.
That is a slam dunk. As the financial condition worsens, don't think for a second that the "free-loaders" without medical care won't have the percentages on their income raised from the current 2.5%.
Another thing. The IRS will keep adding yearly to the amount you "owe". Imagine how many thousands of dollars you will "owe" them after 5, 10, 20+ years. Does anybody think this "debt" is really going to be forgotten or forgiven by the kindly IRS? When you die, what is left in your estate will be paying it.
You'll just be lucky if by that time they haven't figured out how to tack on penalties and interest, because at some point in the future, they will. When that happens, you will lucky if your heirs will have the money left in your estate to give you anything other than a pauper's burial.
Selling insurance is a tough game for amateurs. They should have started with a lemonade stand...kids run better businesses than this! (But I’m betting they wouldn’t last a week).
But, due to the law of unintended consequences...many people are now discovering just how affordable health care is when you pay cash to doctors with no insurance middleman.
Their next wet balloon move will have to be a heavier handed attempt to counter that (as Canada did) and I don’t see that working out for the left. The path to single payer was not as sure as they wished to believe.
Well since they are not going to initially be that busy they can always look at Tea Party groups.
Yeah, I hear you, I almost don’t care anymore either.
Heck no a/c is like hell in sfl. The jails are air conditioned.
The whole law is like an amoeba.
It is whatever Baraq and Seb say it is on a given day.
You may want to check into the health sharing ministries. Deathcare exempt. Much cheaper than deathcare as well. Here are some threads on it.
I'm planing to be "lost at sea". All my heirs are share holders in GtG(LLC). They can just elect a new CEO.
Send all the bills to the Democrat party. It’s their baby.
It looks like some people are already gearing up for alternative medical care, if not a way out of 0bamacare itself. KSAT ran this story yesterday about nonprofit Family Faith Clinic. 2 locations, about 6 paid personnel, & about 100 medical professionals including primary care & specialists donate time & expertise. It is $50 a month/ $100 for a family for unlimited care or $30 to $65 per visit for primary care, including labs & minor surgeries. The article says that some small businesses are taking advantage of it.
No responsible person commits to a clearly unaffordable situation in the best of times, let alone in an economy this unstable. They can keep their Medicaid. Between concierge type physicians & stuff like this, people will sort it out.
What a deal, Eh? Lucky me. Thanks, Obama.
EVERY young peron that I’ve talked to about Obamacare says they’re not going to enroll; they’d rather take the penalty and they are mad as hell that they have to pay for it. Then I ask them, “did you vote for Obama?” and they either hang their heads, nod, or make an excuse why they voted for him but its very evident they realize they’ve been duped by a conman...
I’m a young person and I voted hard against Obama both times.
Other than that, I’m in the same boat.
Well, you make a good point, but, HST, civil massive disobedience will force change, and the change we want to force is REPEAL OBAMACARE!
I, for one, am ready, willing and able to use the LIEberal’s tactics against them!
Obamacare is an unjust, illegal and unconstitutional (I do not care what Mr. Chief Justice says, the damn law is unconstitutional!) law, and the Supreme Court has ruled that Americans have no obligation to obey illegal or unconstitutional laws!
WE WILL OVERCOME!
A couple of hours ago, I ginned up a spectacular response to your post. Then, I got distracted, and lost it. I’ll see if I can capture the gist of my remarks.
I would prefer “the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal, and truculence of millions of ordinary people” approach to solving the problems that Ophonybama and his LIEberal/Socialist/Marxist/Fascist criminal enterprise has foisted on America.
But, somehow, I don’t think that is going to happen. Ophonybama is spoiling for a fight, and he and his cronies (thugs, every one!) will continue to push against America’s social, economic, legal and constitutional limits until they have pissed off a VERY large number of Americans.
I don’t think we can be “pushed” that far very easily, and the “push back” could get ugly.
I only can hope that the men and women who took the Oath to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC” took it seriously and know what to do when they are given illegal orders!
PS Great post, BTW! I got distracted when I checked your link and wound up spun off in another direction. That happens when you get to be my age! LOL!
And that's why Obama seems confident the insurance will take hold. Assume someone gets sick or has an accident or something that would've been expensive to pay for. So the patient is told "it's covered" and they only have to pay the deductible if they sign up. So they sign up and it'll be as an automatic deduction from a bank account or a charge to a credit card. You think that person will ever in their lives get to opt out of those automatic payments?
> Im a young person and I voted hard against Obama both times.
Other than that, Im in the same boat.
You are an exception. I’d guess you are a Christian from a conservative family who was raised to be self-reliant, respect authority, and value integrity or learned by hardship or both. You are the hope of the future so don’t let ud own...: )
Everywhere i see the youth waking up to who Obama is, mainly due to Obamacare. They realize they were used and bought into the celebrity persona, swagger and occult of peronality image. The very same type of facade I see with professional conmen I investigate. He’s a conman peddling for the enemy but wearing the mask of the president. Watch the actions not the mouth. That reveals who they are everytime.
^ us down
That's how it worked in Maine...."Guaranteed Issue"
It totally destroyed the actuaries' ability to assess risk. The IM rates were the second highest in the US.
I saw the term “Irish Democracy” in an article and although that author assumed you knew what it meant and I sort of got the ‘gist’ of what he meant, I wanted to know exactly, so I looked it up and the definition I found at the link referenced seemed pretty good. When I saw a post regarding CT’s ‘assault’ weapons registration ... the estimate is as much as 90% noncompliance, ‘Irish Democracy’ came to mind again. Then, the latest polls seem to show that the uninsured are not signing up for Obamacare. The “Irish Democracy” seemed to also fit what is going on with folks choosing not to comply with the mandate for various reasons. It seems to me to be a growing sentiment, perhaps a trend.
In general, I tend to agree with you - I think Obama & his thugs are looking for an opportunity to push people over the edge so they can do what thugs and The Man Who Would Be King would like to do .... rip up the Constitution & the rule of law and rule by martial law, imperial decree/fiat or whatever he thinks he can get away with. If that happens, there will be a fight ... a real one, for all the marbles.
Your attempt to reprise your first ‘spectacular’ response to my post is ... well, pretty spectacular! :-)
I very much like the phrase “Irish Democracy,” and will incorporate it into my spoken and written usage. And, thanks for the link; I have it bookmarked.
Obama’s LIEberal thugs care not a whit for the American people, our history or our needs and desires. They are intent on forcing their square communist peg into our round Representative Republic hole, and will not be deterred.
I don’t think this event will end well — hopefully it will end better for US than them!
I like learning new things (old dog, new tricks ...yada yada :-)and I learned something new with “Irish Democracy”!
FRegards & have a great day!