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Who’s ‘godless’ now? Russia says it’s U.S.
Washington Times ^ | Tuesday, January 28, 2014 | Marc Bennetts

Posted on 02/04/2014 1:52:22 PM PST by Sopater

MOSCOW — At the height of the Cold War, it was common for American conservatives to label the officially atheist Soviet Union a “godless nation.”

More than two decades on, history has come full circle, as the Kremlin and its allies in the Russian Orthodox Church hurl the same allegation at the West.

“Many Euro-Atlantic countries have moved away from their roots, including Christian values,” Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a recent keynote speech. “Policies are being pursued that place on the same level a multi-child family and a same-sex partnership, a faith in God and a belief in Satan. This is the path to degradation.”

In his state of the nation address in mid-December, Mr. Putin also portrayed Russia as a staunch defender of “traditional values” against what he depicted as the morally bankrupt West. Social and religious conservatism, the former KGB officer insisted, is the only way to prevent the world from slipping into “chaotic darkness.”

As part of this defense of “Christian values,” Russia has adopted a law banning “homosexual propaganda” and another that makes it a criminal offense to “insult” the religious sensibilities of believers.

The law on religious sensibilities was adopted in the wake of a protest in Moscow’s largest cathedral by a female punk rock group against the Orthodox Church’s support of Mr. Putin. Kremlin-run television said the group’s “demonic” protest was funded by “some Americans.”

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: 4plicate; atheism; christian; communism; history; ibtz; ntsa; obama; putinisanatheist; spam; transmittovladimir
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Even Putin sees America's fall from grace...
1 posted on 02/04/2014 1:52:22 PM PST by Sopater
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To: Sopater

Not unless Putin is using “Christian Values” as a cover for something else.


2 posted on 02/04/2014 1:54:06 PM PST by Dallas59 (Obama: The first "White Black" President.)
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To: Sopater

The ex-KGB snake is *LESS* hostile to the USA than the Prez of the USA.

We elected an occupier.

An angry destroyer.


3 posted on 02/04/2014 1:55:19 PM PST by gaijin
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To: Sopater
Obama cleared it with him first. (The word “flexibility” had more than one meaning, after all.)


4 posted on 02/04/2014 1:55:49 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Sopater

5 posted on 02/04/2014 1:56:15 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: gaijin

No, he isn’t less hostile.

Looks to me like Obama’s working for him; that’s how things looked from the exchange between Obama and middleman Medvedev.


6 posted on 02/04/2014 1:56:50 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: gaijin

Apollyon.................

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abaddon


7 posted on 02/04/2014 1:57:08 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: Dallas59
Not unless Putin is using “Christian Values” as a cover for something else.

Good point. Liberty is a fundamental Christian value.

Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. - 2 Corinthians 3:17
8 posted on 02/04/2014 1:57:11 PM PST by Sopater (Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? - Matthew 20:15a)
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To: gaijin
The U.S. CHOSE evil. Stop blaming Obama so much. He's just a symptom.
9 posted on 02/04/2014 2:00:06 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Sopater

I never thought i’d live long enough to wish the leader of Russia were our president instead of who is currently occupying our white house.


10 posted on 02/04/2014 2:01:58 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Sopater

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn saw a decline in values in the West years ago and I agree with him on that.

Putin is far from a perfect leader and I would prefer that people choose to do the right thing and not be dictated into it.

The Russian Orthodox church was a KGB infiltrated institution in the Soviet days and the KGB man now running the show no doubt has it as a tool of his policies.


11 posted on 02/04/2014 2:03:23 PM PST by Nextrush (AFFORDABLE CARE ACT=HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY BAILOUT ACT)
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To: Sopater; All

In before the Gays/Globalists/Soros faction starts whining about Russia....

The US is going Godless


12 posted on 02/04/2014 2:05:01 PM PST by SeminoleCounty (A Theory is not a Fact....It is not called the "Fact of Evolution")
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To: Sopater

We’re not the ones who murdered all the priests and dynamited the churches.


13 posted on 02/04/2014 2:07:41 PM PST by ozzymandus
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To: fwdude
The U.S. CHOSE evil. Stop blaming Obama so much.

yeah huh the u s is just a headless chicken

14 posted on 02/04/2014 2:10:25 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Sopater

In a Russian interview Putin called himself a Buddhist. Obama has already said the US is not a Christian nation, and Obama is happy about it. So I’m not sure who Putin thinks he’s criticizing.


15 posted on 02/04/2014 2:17:31 PM PST by aimhigh
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To: Sopater
Well, "liberty" has a bunch of definitions, many of them incompatible with one another.

Just for instance, both the abortion enthusiasts and the sodomite pseudo-marriage promoters claim they are on the side of "liberty."

A great many of the most common uses of "liberty" are against Judeo-Christian morality, or at least extraneous to it.

There are of course solidly Christian usages for that word, but many would be hard-put to define it in an intelligibly Christian way.

16 posted on 02/04/2014 2:21:12 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The problem ain't what folks don't know. It's what they DO know, that ain't so!" - Will Rogers)
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To: Sopater

Americans (and all of the western world) have lost the meaning of freedom.

We were meant to live in freedom UNDER God. We were not meant to live in freedom FROM God. Huge difference.


17 posted on 02/04/2014 2:21:55 PM PST by JudyinCanada
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To: fwdude

>>The U.S. CHOSE evil. Stop blaming Obama so much. He’s just a symptom.

You’re right.


18 posted on 02/04/2014 2:23:14 PM PST by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Just for instance, both the abortion enthusiasts and the sodomite pseudo-marriage promoters claim they are on the side of "liberty."

You are exactly right.

However, I deny that their "liberty" includes the ability to infringe on the rights of others. The aborted baby's rights are clearly infringed on - its life is taken.

In the case of homosexual "marriage", they want to take something clearly defined, and clearly understood, and pretend it applies to relationships where it NEVER has. If men can marry men, I can marry my car, or ten men, or twenty women, or...

They don't want "liberty", they want tyranny. With them in charge.

19 posted on 02/04/2014 2:28:40 PM PST by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

There are some who try to force “God” on people and there are others who force “anti-God” on people.

They are both wrong but I see the “anti-God” crowd threatening freedom in this country with every new court ruling.

I believe in freedom for those who the “anti-God” forces are targeting and stand for their freedom under the Constitution.


20 posted on 02/04/2014 2:31:55 PM PST by Nextrush (AFFORDABLE CARE ACT=HEALTH CARE INDUSTRY BAILOUT ACT)
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To: fwdude

Correct...

We now live in a media-driven idiocracy where 30,000 people stand in the snow for hours, for a chance to be seen on TV, in city after city (American Idol), as but one example.>

And I largely see this as OUR fault (yes, I mean Freepers, too.)

When we had the chance to stop this decline, most of us decided they were too busy living their lives, to be inconvenienced by protesting, like the left always finds time for.

Now are children will pay a dear price for that.


21 posted on 02/04/2014 2:32:54 PM PST by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: fwdude; Bryanw92

While I don’t necessarily have a beef with your premise, I don’t think agreeing with it in part means that I should give Obama a free pass. Yes, a flawed populace installed him, but he is the man acting out in a manner that is very destructive for our nation. Can’t absolve him of that.

He is evil. He needs to be recognized as evil. His antics as they are known, should all be fully exposed to the public.

What’s more, I’ll blame him for every bit of it!

Just because a man seduces a decent woman, we don’t blame her for what he does next, if it is pure evil.

Did she make a mistake. Sure. Should she be destroyed for it? No.

Our nation shouldn’t be destroyed either. (I know you agree with this. Just sayin’)


22 posted on 02/04/2014 2:41:31 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Amnesty is job NONE! It isn't even the leading issue with Hipanics.)
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To: Bryanw92

This from a Czech Newspaper editorial last year sums up what most Europeans now think of us.

“The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the Presidency. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.

The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails America. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince. The Republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”


23 posted on 02/04/2014 2:48:52 PM PST by DJ Taylor (Once again our country is at war, and once again the Democrats have sided with our enemy.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
both the abortion enthusiasts and the sodomite pseudo-marriage promoters claim they are on the side of "liberty."

No abortionist can exercise their "liberty" without egregiously violating the liberty of the person in the womb, so they have no valid argument.

As for the other example, they already have the liberty to live like godless hedonistic heathens without the gov't granting some kind of financially incentivized approval of their lifestyle. Therefore, they're just blowing smoke.
24 posted on 02/04/2014 2:48:55 PM PST by Sopater (Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? - Matthew 20:15a)
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To: DoughtyOne
Of course Obama is evil! But he doesn't exist in a vacuum.

I have been observing, for the past several decades, a decline in public morality and a steep coarsening in society that has made the unthinkable "election" of the likes of Obama possible. He is the hammer in the hands of the Left to destroy this country. The 60's were at least honest about what they wanted to do to America. Now, all of those seeds have come to harvest.

25 posted on 02/04/2014 2:51:09 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Sopater

by all appearances Russia is walking the walk:

churches are full
helping persecuted Christian churches

Russian background in Communism makes it all suspicious - but still????


26 posted on 02/04/2014 2:53:42 PM PST by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: Sopater; jimt; Mrs. Don-o

A woman’s sense of liberty should not be defined by having the right to kill.

And the homos derive their sense of liberty by forcing the photographer and baker to service their desires.

And the Libertarian Party thinks it’s supporting liberty by promoting the aforementioned.

None of this is liberty. It’s liberal statism; a.k.a., Leftism.


27 posted on 02/04/2014 2:55:02 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: fwdude

Okay, lets use your logic. (And I’m not doing this to put you down, because I think you have a valid argument. I’m just not sure it’s quite as valid as you think. So this is to help clarify my thoughts, our difference of opinion.)

If you’re comments here are reasoned, then the exact opposite would be valid too.

It would therefore have been reasoned in Reagan’s day and even now, that we should have avoided giving him credit for his work to overcome the Soviet Union, and get free market enterprise going again.

It was really the people who elected him who should get the credit. Reagan? Not so much!

Sound about right? It doesn’t to me. I think you agree with this too.

I agree the populace has been hoodwinked. I agree they aren’t paying attention too. I agree they should be taken to task too. I just think it should be separately, and Obama should be forced to own what he’s doing 100% also.

Many good people in Reagan’s day did the right thing. Sure they should get credit for that. Society has changed, and I agree with you there. However, we are not lofting leaders as our nominee, who will reach for the Reagan cup.

I place the blame for that sqarely on the GOPe, who defeats us across this nation by withholding funds that would help Conservatives win in our local districts.

The Left pulls out all the stops to help their fellow travelers, and the GOPe pulls out all the stops to defeat it’s (supposed) fellow travelers.


28 posted on 02/04/2014 3:04:54 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Amnesty is job NONE! It isn't even the leading issue with Hipanics.)
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To: fwdude
The U.S. CHOSE evil. Stop blaming Obama so much. He's just a symptom.

As Andrew Breitbart said: Politics is downstream of culture.

And the popular culture of the US has been in the toilet for decades now.

God has been rejected, and that is never good.

29 posted on 02/04/2014 3:08:30 PM PST by bkopto (Free men are not equal. Equal men are not free.)
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To: DJ Taylor

Excellent statement from the Czech newspaper. Right on the nose.


30 posted on 02/04/2014 3:19:20 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The problem ain't what folks don't know. It's what they DO know, that ain't so!" - Will Rogers)
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To: Sopater
The homoexual pairings want to receive public honors and public benefits without any rational reason: they do not provide the unique and irreplaceable public value which marriage is meant to protect. And that "unique and irreplaceable value" is the natural, normal, and stable procreation and raising of the next generation.

Man-woman marriage is a procreative union. Same-sex and other perverse liaisons are not. They do not provide a stable foundation for the most important unit in society, the natural family. Therefore they have no claim on the honors and benefits associated with marriage. It's really as simple as that.

31 posted on 02/04/2014 3:25:18 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o ("The problem ain't what folks don't know. It's what they DO know, that ain't so!" - Will Rogers)
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To: bkopto
God has been rejected, and that is never good.

Since 1962. And it has been all downhill since then, as evidenced by numerous statistical trends.

http://www.blogadoon.com/statistical-morality-results-of-supreme-court-1962-prayer-ban/

32 posted on 02/04/2014 3:49:06 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Sopater

Putin has a good point. But in another ten or twenty years, Russia won’t be that different from the US or Western Europe, assuming it doesn’t collapse entirely.


33 posted on 02/04/2014 3:54:40 PM PST by x
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To: elpadre
Russia is walking the walk: churches are full, helping persecuted Christian churches

I heard a missionary to Russia, two days ago, say that less than 2% of Russians are Christian.

34 posted on 02/04/2014 4:23:19 PM PST by aimhigh
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To: aimhigh
I heard a missionary to Russia, two days ago, say that less than 2% of Russians are Christian.

What he meant by Christian and what Russian Orthodox would mean may not be the same thing.

35 posted on 02/04/2014 4:29:07 PM PST by x
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To: elpadre; metmom; boatbums; caww; presently no screen name; redleghunter; Springfield Reformer; ...
by all appearances Russia is walking the walk:

What "all appearances" are you referring to? "Religious Freedom" does not mean freedom of religion if not part of the basically State church in Russia. While the US has become antagonistic toward Christian conservative faith in general as it deifies the government (as, like God, it never needs to show gratitude to or dependance upon anything greater than itself, but increasingly presents itself as giving us this day our daily bread), Russia has been building a State church, and which promotes many of the errors of Catholicism, including the use of the sword of men for its purposes, which early Prots had to unlearn.

Moscow church destroyed in sign of new Russian repression Posted on Sep 26, 2012 | by Jill Nelson

MOSCOW (BP) -- It was in the early hours of the morning on Sept. 6 when Pastor Vasili Romanyuk's phone rang. A group of men backed by local police were demolishing his Holy Trinity Pentecostal Church, housed in a three-story building nestled in a Moscow suburb. As word spread, congregants arrived at the scene hoping to save the building, but their efforts were futile. By dawn the church was in ruins and some of its most valuable contents were missing.

An isolated incident? A misunderstanding? Analysts watching the current climate in the former Cold War country don't think so: "This destruction of the church is about as concrete of evidence as you can get that something very bad and very troubling is taking place," said Katrina Lantos Swett, chair of the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom. "This could not have happened without the backing, support, and implicit blessing of the police."

The incident is just one sign of deteriorating freedoms in Russia, and behind the scenes a cozy relationship between the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church has raised more than a few eyebrows. As President Vladimir Putin digs into his third term, a number of Kremlin crackdowns involving vague interpretations of the country's extremism law and other human-rights abuses are troubling signs that the country has slipped into a familiar, repressive era.

"When you have unknown people backed by the police coming out at midnight to begin tearing down a church, you know something doesn't smell right," Lantos Swett said.

Officials evicted Holy Trinity Church from its original building in 1995 and relocated the church to the eastern Moscow suburb. The congregation used its own funds to construct a new building and repeatedly battled officials over permits. The church demolition and its history reflect an emerging pattern: Authorities confiscate land from non-favored religious communities and force the congregation to relocate to a remote suburb, the religious leaders apply for permits that are subsequently denied, and officials confiscate (once again) or demolish the relocated congregation, citing lack of proper documentation.

Pastor Romanyuk and a small group of the church's 550 congregants arrived on site around 3:30 a.m. as about 45 men claiming to be civil volunteers blocked them from the building and threw stones. "When I arrived, I just burst into tears," 25-year-old Natalya Cherevichinik told The Moscow Times as she surveyed the destruction. "I couldn't believe that something that had been built over several years could be destroyed in a few hours."

Russian Evangelicals Leery of Orthodox Church, Friday, December 30, 2011:

class="adjusted">MOSCOW, Russia -- For decades, the Russian Orthodox Church was persecuted under the Soviet Union's Communist Party.

Since the early 1990s, the church has grown in size and influence as its relationship with the Russian government has improved significantly.

However, that cozy relationship worries the country's evangelicals.

Threats Against Evangelicals

For eight years, Yuri Sipko ran one of the largest Baptist organizations in Russia. Now, 20 years after the fall of Communism, he worries about the growing threats against the country's evangelical movement.

"The collapse of Communism was supposed to usher in an era of greater religious freedom, but I'm concerned we are moving in the wrong direction," Sipko said.

What makes the Russian evangelicals very concerned is an emerging relationship between the Russian government and the Russian Orthodox Church.

"For example, the government recently introduced religious classes based on the principals of the Orthodox Church in public schools," Sipko said.

"Then late last year, the Russian president announced an initiative to appoint Orthodox chaplains to all army units," he said. "Our constitution clearly states no religion can be the state religion."

Russia Church-State Relations

Russia watchers credit two men, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev, for elevating the church's prominence. The state media has also played a key role, often showing the leaders attending church services.

Sergey Ryakhovski knows both men well. As head of Russia's Pentecostal Union, he meets regularly with top government and Orthodox Church leaders.

Ryakhovski worries that the Orthodox Church's influence is coming at the expense of religious freedom, especially for minority groups such as Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists.

"There are so many laws and by-laws that regulate religious life in Russia," Ryakhovski said. "For example, evangelical Christians just can't go out and buy a church building or buy a piece of land to build a church."

"Plus, criticizing or challenging the Orthodox Church is not a task for all," he added.

Orthodox Church Revival

The Russian Orthodox Church on the other hand has had it easy in recent times after decades of state persecution.

Church buildings that were destroyed during the Soviet era have been rebuilt with Russian taxpayer money. In the past 20 years, the government has spent hundreds of millions of dollars restoring some 23,000 churches.

Most Russians say they belong to the Orthodox Church. Yet CBN News found mixed reactions on the streets of Moscow to the growing bond between church and state

At Expense of All Others, Putin Picks a Church

By CLIFFORD J. LEVY Published: April 24, 2008

STARY OSKOL, Russia —

It was not long after a Methodist church put down roots here that the troubles began.

First came visits from agents of the F.S.B., a successor to the K.G.B., who evidently saw a threat in a few dozen searching souls who liked to huddle in cramped apartments to read the Bible and, perhaps, drink a little tea. Local officials then labeled the church a “sect.” Finally, last month, they shut it down.

There was a time after the fall of Communism when small Protestant congregations blossomed here in southwestern Russia, when a church was almost as easy to set up as a general store. Today, this industrial region has become emblematic of the suppression of religious freedom under President Vladimir V. Putin.

Just as the government has tightened control over political life, so, too, has it intruded in matters of faith. The Kremlin’s surrogates in many areas have turned the Russian Orthodox Church into a de facto official religion, warding off other Christian denominations that seem to offer the most significant competition for worshipers. They have all but banned proselytizing by Protestants and discouraged Protestant worship through a variety of harassing measures, according to dozens of interviews with government officials and religious leaders across Russia.

Russia's De-Facto State Religion : Persecution : http://www ... www.persecution.org/?p=9350&upm...‎ International Christian Co... Putin frequently appears with the Orthodox head, Patriarch Aleksei II, ... Baptists, evangelicals, Pentecostals and many others who cut Christ's robes like bandits, ...

Government Returning Land to Religious Organizations to Favor Orthodox Tuesday, March 3rd, 2009: An ambitious draft law on the transfer of property of religious significance to religious organisations may reignite a process begun in 1993.

Pentecostal Seminary Targeted for Liquidation

Pentecostal Church Forced to Meet Outside in Moscow Winter

Russia: Governor Orders Church Land Grab

Council of Religious Experts threatens religious freedom

A new Inquisition ?

Russia “You have the law, we have orders

36 posted on 02/04/2014 7:39:01 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: fwdude
http://www.blogadoon.com/statistical-morality-results-of-supreme-court-1962-prayer-ban/

Perhaps that should be added to this:

REVEALING STATISTICS (or, Present Costs of the War Against God)

37 posted on 02/04/2014 8:02:43 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: x; aimhigh; elpadre
I heard a missionary to Russia, two days ago, say that less than 2% of Russians are Christian.

What he meant by Christian and what Russian Orthodox would mean may not be the same thing.

The country has an area of 6,592,769 square miles (17,075,190 km2) and a population of 142.8 million. In practice, only a minority of citizens actively participated in any religion. Many who identified themselves as members of a faith participated in religious life rarely or not at all. There is no one set of reliable statistics that breaks down the population by denomination, and the statistics below are compiled from government, polling, and religious group sources.

Approximately 100 million citizens consider themselves Russian Orthodox Christians, although the vast majority are not regular churchgoers. Fourteen to 23 million Muslims form the country's largest religious minority. The majority of Muslims live in the Volga-Urals region and the North Caucasus, although Moscow, St. Petersburg, and parts of Siberia also have sizable Muslim populations. The Buddhist Association of Russia estimated there were between 1.5 and 2 million Buddhists, who live in the traditionally Buddhist regions of Buryatiya, Tuva, and Kalmykiya. According to the Slavic Center for Law and Justice, Protestants make up the second largest group of Christian believers, with 3,500 registered organizations and more than 2 million followers. There are an estimated 600,000 Jews (0.4 percent of the population); the vast majority live in Moscow and St. Petersburg. The Catholic Church estimated that there are 600,000 Catholics, most of whom are not ethnic Russians. In some areas, such as Yakutiya and Chukotka, pantheistic and nature-based religions are practiced independently or alongside other religions.

According to Human Rights Ombudsman Lukin's annual report, the Ministry of Justice had registered 22,956 religious organizations as of 1 January, 2007, 443 more than January 2006. Among the registered religious groups are Russian Orthodox, Orthodox Old Believers, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Evangelical Christians, Catholic, and other denominations. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion_in_Russia#Religious_demography

38 posted on 02/04/2014 8:08:44 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Sopater
Who’s ‘godless’ now? Russia says it’s U.S.

So do most religious polls...

39 posted on 02/04/2014 8:31:08 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fwdude
The U.S. CHOSE evil.



Are you still killing your unborn?

-- GOD


 

40 posted on 02/04/2014 8:32:05 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: jimt
Just for instance, both the abortion enthusiasts and the sodomite pseudo-marriage promoters claim they are on the side of "liberty."

Stand by for 3 minutes of...



Genesis 13:13
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
 

 
 
 
 

41 posted on 02/04/2014 8:33:36 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: fwdude
God has been rejected, and that is never good.

We've diagnosed the disease; but will we take the medicine?


 

 

 

2 Chronicles 7:14

If my people, who are called by my name,
shall humble themselves,
and pray, and seek my face,
and turn from their wicked ways; ,

then will I hear from heaven,
and will forgive their sin,
and will heal their land.

42 posted on 02/04/2014 8:35:21 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212
Although I have no doubt there are many Christians in Russia I do not think Russia as a nation is Christian. I think just the opposite. The "Brief" window given her in the past two decades is for the sake of The Gospel reaching all to accept or reject. I think the huge Iron Fist is fixing to come back down with a vengeance unseen in Europe since The Roman Empire. Russia's official attitude assisting enemies of Israel is another red flag IMO.

The nation I would look at is China where Christians face vere severe open persecution from the government. Seeds were sown there by missionaries many decades ago and the church does exist although to a large part underground such as in homes etc.

The United States is at a crossroads right now. Repent or come under judgment and wrath from GOD. It's open acceptances of sins which lead to desolation {homosexuality} and the holocaust of the unborn {abortions for convenience} will not go unanswered nor unnoticed.

43 posted on 02/05/2014 1:03:17 AM PST by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: cva66snipe
 
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
- Jude 1
 
 

Isaiah 1:10-20  

10 Hear the word of the Lord,
You rulers of Sodom;
Give ear to the law of our God,
You people of Gomorrah:
11 “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?”
Says the Lord.
“I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle.
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
Or of lambs or goats.

12 “When you come to appear before Me,
Who has required this from your hand,
To trample My courts?
13 Bring no more futile sacrifices;
Incense is an abomination to Me.
The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies—
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15 When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.

16 “Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes.
Cease to do evil,
17 Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor;
Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.

18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the Lord,
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool.

19 If you are willing and obedient,
You shall eat the good of the land;
20 But if you refuse and rebel,
You shall be devoured by the sword”;
For the mouth of the Lord has spoken.


44 posted on 02/05/2014 3:28:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: daniel1212

Great finds.


45 posted on 02/05/2014 5:17:15 AM PST by redleghunter
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To: daniel1212
Thank you for bringing some clarity to what the emergence of state affiliated churches mean for Born Again Christians. People who seek power and wish to impose their beliefs at the point of a sword have not looked at the life of Jesus Christ.

What we are seeing in Russia is what the RCC would do here if they could.

46 posted on 02/05/2014 7:21:16 AM PST by wmfights
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To: wmfights
What we are seeing in Russia is what the RCC would do here if they could.

More actually, and it is safe to say that here some long for a Catholic monarchy.

"....Constitutions can be changed, and non-Catholic sects may decline to such a point that the political proscription [ban] of them may become feasible and expedient. What protection would they have against a Catholic state? What protection would they then have against a Catholic State? The latter could logically tolerate only such religious activities as were confined to the members of the dissenting group. It could not permit them to carry on general propaganda nor accord their organization certain privileges that had formerly been extended to all religious corporations, for example, exemption from taxation. [But] the danger of religious intolerance toward non-Catholics in the United States is so improbable and so far in the future that it should not occupy their time or attention." — The State and the Church (1922), pp.38,39, by Monsignor (and professor) John Augustine Ryan (1869–1945), imprimatur of Cardinal Hayes (http://maritain.nd.edu/jmc/etext/sac002.htm).

47 posted on 02/05/2014 11:17:12 AM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: wmfights

God works in mysterious ways...

http://www.youtube.com/embed/s_IHDJQudmo?rel=0


48 posted on 02/05/2014 11:19:08 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: gaijin

Americans voted for this godless evil unclean spirit to rule over them, they wanted Saul, so why should we be annoyed when tyrants abroad attempt to call us out for it merely to further their own internal propaganda machines,


49 posted on 02/05/2014 3:17:45 PM PST by captmar-vell
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To: Elsie

Also Isaiah Chapter 5,

“Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. “ Isaiah 5:14

“Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope” Isaiah 5:18


50 posted on 02/05/2014 3:22:23 PM PST by captmar-vell
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