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Reason Magazine: Hey, Letís Reduce Heroin Overdoses by Legalizing Heroin
FrontPage Mag ^ | 02/04/2014 | Daniel Greenfield

Posted on 02/04/2014 2:32:35 PM PST by SeekAndFind

thepanicinneedlepark01

For a magazine that styles itself Reason, it’s surprisingly unreasonable.

Nick Gillespie of Reason attacks Truth Revolt’s Ben Shapiro for writing that “Philip Seymour Hoffman['s] self-inflicted death is yet another hallmark of the broken leftist culture that dominates Hollywood, enabling rather than preventing the loss of some of its greatest talents. Libertarianism becomes libertinism without a cultural force pushing back against the penchant for sin; Hollywood has no such cultural force.”

It’s a point that’s rather hard to argue with. Freedom opens up the arena for individual character to define how people will use it. Freedom alone is a blank slate that allows people to impose order on their own lives.

Gillespie not only argues against it, but makes a thoroughly ridiculous argument. “Shapiro’s implication that libertarianism is the root cause of Hoffman’s overdose isn’t simply churlish and uninformed by anything resembling knowledge of Hoffman’s life, thoughts, or circumstances of death (though it is that). It is plainly nonsensical.”

That’s not what Shaprio is saying, but Reason has its theme, which is what libertarianism is being unfairly blamed for the death of a Hollywood actor and it has the solution…

“If Shapiro thought about it for a minute rather than calling up his outrage macro in Word, he might ask what sort of drug policy might lead to better outcomes. Generally speaking, people have enough trouble admitting substance-abuse problems without also having to admit that they are criminals too. Maybe legalizing or decriminalizing drugs would lead to an environment in which abuse would be minimized along with the ill effects of the black markets spawned by prohibition.”

Sure, we’ll cut down on overdoses by legalizing heroin. The needle park solution always works.

AAAA

Do Hollywood celebrities abuse drugs because drug laws make them feel like criminals? Would they use less drugs if using drugs was more legally and socially acceptable?

Would Philip Seymour Hoffman have avoided overdosing on heroin if he could have bought it at the local drug store?

Since the addictive mechanism combined with tolerance, which is the effect that causes escalating drug use to achieve the same results, and the emotional cycle of self-medicating, is what causes the escalation of drug use, it’s hard to see how making an addictive drug that chemically diminishes free will is the solution to preventing drug abuse.

It’s like fighting slavery by legalizing slavery. Hoffman wasn’t abusing heroin because it was illegal. He was abusing heroin because it was available.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: addiction; dopersrights; hedonism; heroin; heroinchic; heroine; legaldope; legalheroin; legalization; legalpot; libertarians; philipseymourhoffman; potheads; reasonmagazine; rehab; substanceabuse
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1 posted on 02/04/2014 2:32:36 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Yeah, THAT's the TICKET!...............

2 posted on 02/04/2014 2:33:59 PM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: SeekAndFind

We need to start asking ourselves as conservatives why we go out of our way to try and save the lives of those who hate us and wish to destroy our way of life?

Maybe we should consider handing out free heroin instead to liberal cities?


3 posted on 02/04/2014 2:36:46 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

I was thinking the same thing. You beat me to the post by mentioning it.


4 posted on 02/04/2014 2:38:02 PM PST by amnestynone (Lindsey Graham is feckless, duplicitous, treacherous, double dealing backstabbing Corksucker.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The argument for doing away with drug laws is not that the drugs will not continue to cause harm. The argument is the drug laws themselves do more harm than good.


5 posted on 02/04/2014 2:39:09 PM PST by PapaNew
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To: SeekAndFind

Daniel Greenfield is absolutely correct. Legalizing an evil does not make it less evil.


6 posted on 02/04/2014 2:40:45 PM PST by livius
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To: SeekAndFind

How the hell does someone get into that anyway? Seriously, how does that work? You’re at a party one night and someone comes up to you and says “Hey Bud, you wanna try some HEROIN?” “Hey yeah sure, why not?” “OK, all you gotta do is let me INJECT it into your vein...” “Oh WOW that sounds AWESOME! I can get AIDS from sharing that needle right? AWESOME!”


7 posted on 02/04/2014 2:40:54 PM PST by GrandJediMasterYoda (Hitlery: Incarnation of evil.)
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To: SeekAndFind
That will probably happen sooner or later.

However, there will be so many restrictions put on addicts that libertarians will long for the old days when addicts could score illegally without having to register with the government and submit to state regulation of their habits.

8 posted on 02/04/2014 2:41:06 PM PST by x
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To: SeekAndFind
Hey, lets stop the damage done by alcoholism by bringing back Prohibition! That’ll work. And we can stop the damage done by cigarette smoking by making tobacco illegal. And why stop there? Cholesterol and transfatty acids cause heart disease and that kills folks and drives up medical costs. Lets make hamburgers and French fries illegal too. F'ing drug warriors haven't got the f'ing brains the Good Lord gave a curbstone.
9 posted on 02/04/2014 2:42:32 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Slavery was once legal in America. Took the worst war this nation ever fought to end it. So when is the end of the drug war?


10 posted on 02/04/2014 2:43:40 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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To: SeekAndFind


11 posted on 02/04/2014 2:49:52 PM PST by Iron Munro ("Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime." - Lavrentiy Beria (& Eric Holder))
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To: livius

And criminalizing every bad idea helps shrink leviathan how?

What next ? make gluttony a crime?


12 posted on 02/04/2014 2:50:06 PM PST by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad and lived with his parents .)
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To: livius

RE: Daniel Greenfield is absolutely correct. Legalizing an evil does not make it less evil.

I think the argument is not whether or not shooting heroine is evil — the argument is how BEST to minimize its use. Both conservatives and libertarians agree that using heroine is bad, the issue is POLICY — How best to minimize it with the least cost to society.

Libertarians claim that legalizing it ( which does not mean approving of it ) is the best way to achieve that. Conservatives claim that it will create more harm than good.

And so the debate goes...


13 posted on 02/04/2014 2:51:42 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

So stupid.

Yeah I know Reason is really a libertarian magazine, but they need to keep their legalization philosophy on benign stuff that grows in the ground, that is a waste of money to police, and not press their luck with advocating for the legalization of essentially manufactured toxic chemical concoctions that can actually kill someone.


14 posted on 02/04/2014 2:53:00 PM PST by VanDeKoik
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To: livius

No, but it may help get the bad batches off the market, because because producers will have an incentive to not kill their customers.


15 posted on 02/04/2014 2:53:29 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: SeekAndFind
Do Hollywood celebrities abuse drugs because drug laws make them feel like criminals?
Would they use less drugs if using drugs was more legally and socially acceptable?

Celebrity drug addicts? Who cares?

Let them all OD.

The sooner the better.


16 posted on 02/04/2014 2:55:20 PM PST by Iron Munro ("Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime." - Lavrentiy Beria (& Eric Holder))
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To: livius

“Daniel Greenfield is absolutely correct. Legalizing an evil does not make it less evil.”

Sure. But that’s not the point.

The point is our huge bloated, para-military, police state that does nothing to protect against drugs and is just sitting there, ready to be used, by the next Hitler.


17 posted on 02/04/2014 2:56:39 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
That would mean free meth for you and your neighbors as well. Enjoy.

Maybe we could approach this as though we were citizens of the same country with similar interests, rather than as members of hostile factions out to destroy each other.

18 posted on 02/04/2014 2:57:58 PM PST by x
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To: jmacusa

Drugs help clean the Gene Pool


19 posted on 02/04/2014 2:58:40 PM PST by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: x

There could be free meth, heroine, etc sitting at 7-Eleven and I doubt very much the rate of use as a percentage of the population would increase.

Now, the users who used would go on a self-destructive orgy of drugs, mind you, but they do that now, anyway, albeit it take a year or so longer.


20 posted on 02/04/2014 3:02:13 PM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem)
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To: PapaNew

But the drugs aren’t free, whether they’re legal or not. Some scumbags will still be breaking into people’s homes, carjacking your family, mugging you on the street to get money for drugs. Drug addicts don’t suddenly go get jobs when certain drugs become legal.


21 posted on 02/04/2014 3:02:19 PM PST by rabidralph
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To: x

I don’t even drink.

And I am tired of people hating me for trying to help them!

If these idiots want to kill themselves, I say let them and be rid of them. More resources left for the rest of us.

California for instance is about to run out of water... WTH are we inviting ANYONE in to our country if we don’t even have enough water and other resources for those that are already here! and if some druggie lib want to off themselves with heroin ... I say im paying !


22 posted on 02/04/2014 3:04:31 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Jewbacca
There could be free meth, heroine, etc sitting at 7-Eleven and I doubt very much the rate of use as a percentage of the population would increase.

****************************

Agreed. I just don't believe that most people are interested in doing hard drugs. Addicts seem to live very boring, empty lives.

23 posted on 02/04/2014 3:05:35 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: VanDeKoik

Ahh, but to a libertarian, it makes no difference if its marijuna or heroin.

LEGALIZE it. After all - where in the Constitution can you find laws against heroin?

/loopy lib logic


24 posted on 02/04/2014 3:08:47 PM PST by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: SeekAndFind

>> Libertarians claim that legalizing it ( which does not mean approving of it )

I believe the intent is “decriminalization”.


25 posted on 02/04/2014 3:10:50 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: VanDeKoik

The libertarian position on drugs, is like the one on abortion, zero restrictions.

No restrictions of any kind, not on current drugs, not on any drugs or drug combos (cocktails) that people or cartels invent or create, no limits on advertising and marketing of those drugs, nothing.


26 posted on 02/04/2014 3:13:04 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Yeah, we’re so ‘pro-life’ aren’t we..

Frankly, when it comes to drugs I don’t care that much when they’re illegal what happens to the users. If they are legitimized by legalization though, then it’s sanctioned and then it is society’s fault.

One thing about heroin though is that OD’ing will still happen. People will be able to get it easier so overall use will increase as people ‘give it a shot’ like K2 or something. Then tolerance builds, they still want the nods, and a lethal dose follows eventually.


27 posted on 02/04/2014 3:15:12 PM PST by Monty22002
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To: ansel12

There are hypocrite ones that’ll only want pot legal, and some others not. Basically only wanting the ones they want to use legal.

The rest are just crazy.


28 posted on 02/04/2014 3:20:10 PM PST by Monty22002
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda
How the hell does someone get into that anyway? Seriously, how does that work?

"Freedom" as in "I don't want your tired old morality". Rebellion is paramount!

Getting "high" is all you have left after you have hit the bottom of the long slide which began with an obsession with Happiness.

"Hey, BwanaNdege, what is wrong with Happiness?" you ask.

Happiness is great, but it is not fulfilling. Mankind started with thinking, "If I could only have enough food to eat, and a dry cave to keep out the rain, snow and cold wind...oh, and that saber-tooth tiger, too."

Now. much of mankind has enough food, clothing, shelter and safety. We are reasonably happy. But that is not quite enough, so we seek Success. That too, often leaves a slight emptiness.

Excitement, that's the ticket! Action Sports! Sports cars! Sporty Women!

When Excitement does not fulfill, "Crank it up a notch!" The goal becomes Thrills, then Kicks and, finally, Get High.

The problem is that we were created, in the words of the Westminster Shorter Catechism, "To glorify God and to enjoy Him forever!" As Nehemiah 8:10 says, "The Joy of the Lord is your strength."

Blaise Pascal, the French mathematician & physicist, said “There is a God shaped vacuum in the heart of every man which cannot be filled by any created thing, but only by God, the Creator, made known through Jesus.”

Too often, we try to fill that vacuum with Happiness, Success, Excitement, Thrills, Kicks, and eventually that final High. With each successive, less satisfying substitute, we think that an increase in quantity will make up for the lack of quality.

Bigger mud pies will never replace a slice of Strawberry pie with oodles of whipped cream!

The joy of the Lord, knowing that you are forgiven because of Jesus' completed work, is what we were created for.

(BwanaNdege will now get down off of the Soapbox - Thus endeth today's sermon. Thank you for your patience.)

:-)

29 posted on 02/04/2014 3:20:46 PM PST by BwanaNdege
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To: Jewbacca
The point is our huge bloated, para-military, police state that does nothing to protect against drugs and is just sitting there, ready to be used, by the next Hitler.

Justice Antonin Scalia says World War II-style internment camps could happen again

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3119259/posts

But at least you won't fail your drug test.

(Anarachy is not abscence of laws- it's an overabundance of laws)

Yeah, I know. my bias is on the side of freedom.

30 posted on 02/04/2014 3:26:35 PM PST by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad and lived with his parents .)
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To: rabidralph

Better to have your door kicked in by armed police than armed criminals! that’s fur sure!
“RAID FILMED: Ankeny Police ‘Traumatize’ Family”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3119179/posts


31 posted on 02/04/2014 3:27:55 PM PST by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad and lived with his parents .)
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To: Monty22002

Like all cults, they gear the message to the audience they are trying to convert.

To conservatives they would focus on Cannabis, to Heroin addicts or anarchists, it would include Heroin.


32 posted on 02/04/2014 3:29:54 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda

“How the hell does someone get into that anyway? Seriously, how does that work? You’re at a party one night and someone comes up to you and says “Hey Bud, you wanna try some HEROIN?”

From what I’ve been reading, it’s now people addicted to pain pills (Opiates) shifting over to heroin because it’s cheaper and more available.


33 posted on 02/04/2014 3:32:46 PM PST by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: SeekAndFind
Daniel Greenfield....this one's for you...
34 posted on 02/04/2014 3:44:22 PM PST by tioga (Every knee shall bend, every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.)
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda

It is drug culture. It does start with pot.

It’s a party social thing at the start.

People try white powders, snorting cocaine and meth. Usually they will snort heroin first, or smoke it off a cigarette or blow it in the the back of the throat.

They will enjoy and know people, usually cooler, who inject it.

They will try it.

Drugs are incredibly powerful and initially users have the best times of their lives when starting out.


35 posted on 02/04/2014 3:49:04 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: ifinnegan

Who didn’t see this coming?

Did you really believe them when they said it was only pot?

Wait until they want child prostitution legalized, for the childrun of course.


36 posted on 02/04/2014 3:52:06 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: rabidralph
No, again, the argument is not that repealing drug laws suddenly creates a panacea. The argument is that drug laws do more harm than good much like prohibition did more harm than good. There are a lot of problems in this world and drugs is one of them. The knee-jerk, "pass a law, let government fix it" many times makes matters worse. This is an example.

Of course if a druggie harms another, then he should be prosecuted. The issue is laws that prevent an adult from his private activity that does not interfere with another's freedom. Those kinds of laws are fundamentally unjust and create bigger problems than the activity itself.

37 posted on 02/04/2014 4:02:18 PM PST by PapaNew
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To: PapaNew
No, again, the argument is not that repealing drug laws suddenly creates a panacea. The argument is that drug laws do more harm than good much like prohibition did more harm than good.

Nice try, but the crowd on this board is immune to the message. Drugs kill, it's true. But so does suicide -- and it's still against the law, too.

Does anyone really refrain from committing suicide because it's illegal?

38 posted on 02/04/2014 4:23:59 PM PST by BfloGuy ( Even the opponents of Socialism are dominated by socialist ideas.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Yes. It’s an advocacy for slavery in many ways, and both political parties have been supporting it incrementally.


39 posted on 02/04/2014 4:30:43 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Don’t forget to “TAX THE HELL OUT OF IT!” The commie ‘RAT politicians are going to want their cut!


40 posted on 02/04/2014 4:32:00 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (ObamaCare. The "global warming" of healthcare plans.)
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To: jmacusa
Hey, lets stop the damage done by alcoholism by bringing back Prohibition!

Ever look at MADD's talking points? The founder quit in the mid 1980s and went on to lobby on behalf of bars and brewers.

41 posted on 02/04/2014 4:48:15 PM PST by a fool in paradise ("Health care is too important to be left to the government.")
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To: BfloGuy

People who become suicidal, do so because they are depressed and are ignorant of any good options. And many of them smoked pot for quite a few years, going through the cycles of paranoia and euphoria thousands of times (cycles that later become mania followed by depression).

They didn’t start smoking pot because of depression or a lack of options. Most of them started smoking pot, because acquaintances told them that it would make them feel great and implied that it would make them more desired as a friend. Many started smoking pot also because they were drunk when pressured to do it. Most who use harder drugs were high on smoke, when the harder drugs were offered.


42 posted on 02/04/2014 4:50:44 PM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda

“How the hell does someone get into that anyway? Seriously, how does that work? You’re at a party one night and someone comes up to you and says “Hey Bud, you wanna try some HEROIN?””

That’s pretty much what happens. If you’re moving in circles where drugs are common you see all sorts of things and get all kinds of offers.

Heroin doesn’t have to be injected. The powder can be heated and the fumes inhaled- “chasing the dragon”. And it can be snorted like cocaine. But if someone finds that they like heroin they’ll move on to injecting because it gives the rush that the other routes don’t.


43 posted on 02/04/2014 5:21:51 PM PST by Pelham (Obamacare, the vanguard of Obammunism)
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To: headstamp 2

“From what I’ve been reading, it’s now people addicted to pain pills (Opiates) shifting over to heroin because it’s cheaper and more available.”

And even cheaper is homebrewed desomorphine, the nightmare Russian street drug called krokodil. If we’re lucky that won’t show up in America.


44 posted on 02/04/2014 5:35:04 PM PST by Pelham (Obamacare, the vanguard of Obammunism)
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To: PapaNew

Prohibition and drugs have nothing in common.

Alcohol has been a foundation of and for Western Civilization for many thousands of years, in every way, that isn’t true of something like pot, which Western Civilization refused to adopt as an intoxicant during those thousands of years, although they interacted with, traded, traveled and fought the cultures that did use it, getting stoned on pot is a 1960s thing for “Western civilization”, alcohol has always been thoroughly incorporated into the white man’s culture and life, prohibition was a weird American second out of those thousands of years, one that sure would have surprised the founding generations, just about as much as them learning that Americans were taking on the drug of the Arabs.


45 posted on 02/04/2014 5:41:05 PM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: BfloGuy
Does anyone really refrain from committing suicide because it's illegal?

Right, but my main issue is a deeper underlying principle at work that has to do with a free, healthy, vibrant, and respectful society.

46 posted on 02/04/2014 5:43:57 PM PST by PapaNew
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To: stubernx98

More people die crossing the f’ing street than overdosing from drugs.


47 posted on 02/04/2014 7:56:49 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Most heroin ODs are caused by drugs of mislabeled potency, or adulterated. Street drugs are dangerous. The main long-term side effects of addiction are related to chronic constipation.


48 posted on 02/04/2014 7:58:29 PM PST by Colinsky
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To: a fool in paradise

Candy Lightner. Thanks to that bitch a single drink can cost you your drivers license. The end result of protecting people from their own stupidity is a world full of fools.


49 posted on 02/04/2014 7:59:11 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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To: familyop

People who are depressed do not always commit suicide and as far as I know marijuana does not induce the desire to kill ones self.


50 posted on 02/04/2014 8:02:46 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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