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What’s behind a fair minimum wage? | As It Turns Out ($15 'not necessarily socialism')
Kingston Community News ^ | 2/04/14 | MARYLIN OLDS

Posted on 02/05/2014 2:58:22 AM PST by Libloather

**SNIP**

The Bureau of Labor projects the majority of jobs developing to be low-wage service jobs. Is this the fault of the unemployed who are still out there looking for decent work, or is this the fault of big businesses who have greedily outsourced their production jobs for increased profit?

There was an article a couple of years ago about Henry Ford. He paid his assembly line workers a $5 per day back in 1914 (that’s $118 in today’s dollars, according to MeasuringWorth.com). He did this because he wanted to increase productivity and reduce turnover — and if his employees could buy his cars, all the better for him.

That isn’t necessarily socialism, folks. That’s just good business.

(Excerpt) Read more at kingstoncommunitynews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: minimum; seattle; socialism; wage
Marylin fails to describe how it will affect HER business.
1 posted on 02/05/2014 2:58:23 AM PST by Libloather
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To: Libloather

Nancy Pelosi avoided it too


2 posted on 02/05/2014 3:00:46 AM PST by South Dakota (shut up and build a bakken pipe line)
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To: Libloather

If its good business the good business owners will do it thrive.


3 posted on 02/05/2014 3:03:10 AM PST by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: Libloather
Notice her last name.."Olds"

That brand is long gone...wonder why??

Ford paid his workers such a then- high wage fro basically two reasons:

1. There was a labor shortage..He needed to attract workers, especially from competitors.

2. Ford had introduced the assembly line. Workers were very resistant to it at first..it was totally different from anything else..so he needed the higher wage to convince them to come work and try it..

4 posted on 02/05/2014 3:08:02 AM PST by ken5050 (This space available cheap...)
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To: Libloather
"There was an article a couple of years ago about Henry Ford. He paid his assembly line workers a $5 per day back in 1914 (that’s $118 in today’s dollars, according to MeasuringWorth.com). He did this because he wanted to increase productivity and reduce turnover — and if his employees could buy his cars, all the better for him."

And that was Henry Ford's decision to make, not the government's to mandate.

5 posted on 02/05/2014 3:11:13 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: Libloather
Fast food workers in Williston, ND are making in the 14 to 15 dollar an hour range--to start. But rent in the town is $2000 or more monthly (plus utilities) for a two-bedroom apartment. Although the wages came in response to the rents (due to rapid expansion and a housing shortage), the rents rose in response to housing shortage caused by a proliferation of high-paying oilfield jobs, causing an influx of people.

Raising the minimum wage for a larger area will have the effect of cheapening the wages of those making more through inflation, and thus damage the middle class (some more).

I believe that is the Marxists' desired effect.

If it is a local phenomenon, it will make the landlords and real estate brokers a bundle (and increase tax revenues--gummint can be greedy, too), but the average person will suffer in the long run--especially if they are on a fixed income.

6 posted on 02/05/2014 3:11:49 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Libloather; P-Marlowe

There is no such thing as a “fair” wage except in the minds of the employers and the employees. In a free market, it’s an agreement/contract between the 2. What you offer and what I accept are transactions between free adults in a free market. What they agree to is “fair”.

In reality, however, we do not have a free market. It is so rife with government involvement, cronyism, efforts to influence prices and wages by means of illegal immigrants, and market distortions by everything from the EPA to the IRS to NAFTA that the entire discussion has become a political tool to appeal to voters.

From that standpoint, any effort to arrive at something “fair” is impossible.

I imagine that in our era the closest to a “fair” wage is to own your own business and at least have the opportunity to make your own “fairness”.


7 posted on 02/05/2014 3:15:30 AM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Libloather

Why stop at $15 make it $25.


8 posted on 02/05/2014 3:20:13 AM PST by DeaconRed (We Need Leadership in DC. We have NONE)
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To: Libloather
Ford later said that offering $5.00/day was the worst mistake he ever made. And he was competing for scarce skilled labor in a very competitive market, where there was constant turn over. He recognized that turn over was expensive, so he was like a guy at an auction, who makes a loud and large jump in price, trying to scare off the competition. He just recognized value sooner than other bidders.

Hardly true of the current minimum wage labor market.

9 posted on 02/05/2014 3:40:06 AM PST by Lonesome in Massachussets (In the long run, we are all dead.)
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To: Libloather; All

Note that Ford raised his wages on his own accord...not forced by the government

His competitors weren’t happy...they wanted government to stop Ford from raising wages.


10 posted on 02/05/2014 3:41:45 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (A Theory is not a Fact....It is not called the "Fact of Evolution")
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To: Smokin' Joe
Raising the minimum wage for a larger area will have the effect of cheapening the wages of those making more through inflation, and thus damage the middle class (some more).

It will have the effect of narrowing portals of entry to the workforce. Fast food restaurants may have 100% or more annual employee turnover rate. Most leave when they find better jobs. According to company estimates, one in every eight American workers has been employed by McDonald's at some time. If half the jobs in a fast food restaurant are replaced by automation, that's half as many who will gain entrance to the work force. (It does create a permanent underclass of Democrat voters who are dependent on the government for their every need.)


11 posted on 02/05/2014 3:50:10 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: ken5050

Plus Ford wasn’t dictated to by the fed. gov. He made a business decision...just like the owner of any other business. What Ford did had nothing to do with raising the minimum wage. If Ford couldn’t have paid his workers that money, he wouldn’t have done so. That’s a lot different than the gov. telling a business owner what they have to pay their workers.


12 posted on 02/05/2014 3:57:59 AM PST by driftless2
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To: DeaconRed

Let’s go for PERFECT “Social Justice”. Everybody makes 25$ an hour, period. Celebs, Lawyers, Doctors, Athletes, Celebs, even the unemployed. We would have a perfect equal society, no?


13 posted on 02/05/2014 4:00:27 AM PST by Kozak ("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
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To: Libloather

Back in the mid 1980s I could buy 4 books for $20 now two paperback books cost me that. Minimum wage has increased the cost of living.


14 posted on 02/05/2014 4:04:52 AM PST by RginTN
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To: Sooth2222

The automation created to replace low skill workers in turn creates a higher paying, higher skilled job for someone to maintain and repair the automation equipment. That job will not go to a minimum wage flunkey.


15 posted on 02/05/2014 4:07:36 AM PST by Lion Den Dan
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To: Lion Den Dan
The automation created to replace low skill workers in turn creates a higher paying, higher skilled job for someone to maintain and repair the automation equipment. That job will not go to a minimum wage flunkey.

True that. And unfortunately, it's not a 1:1 ratio -- one tech might maintain dozens if not hundreds of machines.

More low-skill workers trying to enter the workforce will have no minimum wage job experience on his or her resume to prove to other employers that he can show up at work on time and follow instructions.

"Obamanomics -- expanding the permanent underclass!"

16 posted on 02/05/2014 4:32:25 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Libloather

Ford paid what he did, at his own option, because it was good for his business, and not because the government forced him. He also expected more than $5 a day in value from his workers.


17 posted on 02/05/2014 4:45:11 AM PST by Daveinyork (IER)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

And that was Henry Ford’s decision to make, not the government’s to mandate.

::DingDingDingDing::

We HAVE a winner...no more calls please.


18 posted on 02/05/2014 4:47:36 AM PST by Adder (No, Mr. Franklin, we could NOT keep it.)
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To: Libloather

:: The Bureau of Labor projects the majority of jobs developing to be low-wage service jobs. Is this the fault of the unemployed who are still out there looking for decent work, or is this the fault of big businesses who have greedily outsourced their production jobs for increased profit? ::

How about market forces performing as designed?

If, as an employer, I had need for a worker and the regulators said that $10/hr was fine with them...
Well, by golly, if I hire from outside the company that ^VP of Operations^ opening will be $10/hr to start.


19 posted on 02/05/2014 4:47:42 AM PST by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations: The acronym defines the science.)
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To: Kozak

You forgot politicians.


20 posted on 02/05/2014 4:51:55 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Kozak

You forgot politicians.


21 posted on 02/05/2014 4:51:56 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Libloather

It’s kind of a moot point - it’s just about impossible to start a small business these days, anyway, so they can set the minimum to whatever their large campaign contributors’ government preferences can bear.


22 posted on 02/05/2014 5:02:01 AM PST by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Libloather

Behind the minimum wage increase effort is Obamacare.

To pay the increased taxes, a general wage increase is needed. An increase in the minimum wage provides the inertia to increase all wages across the board.

Wage inflation is absolutely required for Obamacare to be sustainable.


23 posted on 02/05/2014 5:02:50 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: ken5050

The assembly line was a big reason. If workers are assembling cars the old way, then it is not a huge problem if you have an absentee problem. You can just shift a few workers around and produce fewer cars that day. On the other hand you need a minimum attendence in every position to keep the line running. The high pay was combined with firing for absense and drunkenness to improve productivity. But that was Ford’s choice, not the government’s.


24 posted on 02/05/2014 5:08:22 AM PST by KarlInOhio (Republican amnesty supporters don't care whether their own homes are called mansions or haciendas.)
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To: Libloather

Unaccountable totalitarians need to hide their plunder of the currency, the devaluation of the fiat paper, from the masses. Enter their accomplices/co-conspirators, the corrupt politicians, as champions of the downtrodden raising their minimum wage.

Root cause? Never addressed.

Socialism Is Legal Plunder - Bastiat

http://www.usdebtclock.org

http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G022


25 posted on 02/05/2014 5:19:28 AM PST by PGalt
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To: Libloather

As the dollar becomes worth Less and Less...
increasing minimum wage keeps you the same OR LESS than before..

It’s a shell game by democrats knowing democracy is a lie..
Democracy is and always has been Mob Rule by mobsters..
A protection racket by Gov’t protecting you from (( THEM ))..


26 posted on 02/05/2014 5:20:20 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: Libloather

Wow...Marilyn is simply clueless.

She is aghast that some states don’t even have a minimum wage... With the Feds dictating what the minimum is...why bother, but I guess that doesn’t even occur to her.

Weapons Grade Stupid.


27 posted on 02/05/2014 5:35:23 AM PST by Ouderkirk (To the left, everything must evidence that this or that strand of leftist theory is true)
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To: Libloather

A minimum wage historical graph…

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html

Now, legal plunder can be committed in an infinite number of ways. Thus we have an infinite number of plans for organizing it: tariffs, protection, benefits, subsidies, encouragements, progressive taxation, public schools, guaranteed jobs, guaranteed profits, MINIMUM WAGES, a right to relief, a right to the tools of labor, free credit, and so on, and so on. All these plans as a whole — with their common aim of legal plunder — constitute socialism.

(CAPS-mine)

Legal Plunder Has Many Names - Bastiat

http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G020


28 posted on 02/05/2014 5:38:14 AM PST by PGalt
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To: fieldmarshaldj

IIRC the people who worked the line in a Fords factories worked 12 hour days, six days.

her push is tha $5 per day, to $118 per day / 8 hours per day is $14.75 per hour....eerily similar to the $15.

In those days the was no EPA, OSHA, worker’s comp or anythign else....

She’s cherry picking the facts


29 posted on 02/05/2014 5:46:01 AM PST by Ouderkirk (To the left, everything must evidence that this or that strand of leftist theory is true)
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To: bert

Socialists have never figured out that people are not static playthings that can be manipulated at will. Everyone changes their habits to move to the path of least pain.


30 posted on 02/05/2014 5:48:13 AM PST by Pecos (The Chicago Way: Kill the Constitution, one step at a time.)
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To: Libloather

Look, if the government is going to mandate a nearly 100% increase for low skilled jobs I think it is only fair they mandate a similar bump for highly skilled workers. After all, they claim they are all about fairness. You don’t want to dis-incentivize (or whatever the BS buzzword is) skilled workers, do you? Well, fair is fair, I want a 100% increase too. I guess that means the government will have to set wage standards for everyone...hmm, wages will determine where the talent goes...starts to look like a centrally planned economy, doesn’t it? We all know how well those worked out in the 20th century...


31 posted on 02/05/2014 6:02:50 AM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: Kozak

Don’t forget POTUS, SCOTUS, senators, congressman and others in gov’t.


32 posted on 02/05/2014 6:14:08 AM PST by huldah1776
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To: Smokin' Joe

The same thing happened when the Alaska Pipeline was built.


33 posted on 02/05/2014 6:57:43 AM PST by ridesthemiles
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To: DeaconRed
Actually, if you follow inflation, with the value of your money being cut in half every 10 years, starting anywhere you want, 1700s, 1800s, or 1970, it should be a LOT more.

An unskilled worker should be getting around $70 an hour now.

A skilled worker should be getting around $100 to $150 an hour now.

The spouse should not have to work outside the household.

34 posted on 02/05/2014 7:28:34 AM PST by Mogger (Independence, better fuel economy and performance with American made synthetic oil.)
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To: ridesthemiles

Yep. I had a cousin who went up there to work who made enough money to take a year off and play afterwards..


35 posted on 02/05/2014 7:49:15 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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