Posted on 02/05/2014 10:16:50 AM PST by Phillyred
WHEN LISA Schenke read about the sudden death of University of Pennsylvania freshman Madison Holleran last month, it brought back chilling memories.
Schenke, a North Jersey mother, knew the story all too well: A high-achieving student and varsity athlete ultimately lost a battle with depression. Like Holleran, Schenke's son, Tim, committed suicide - in April 2008, months before he was set to attend Drexel University on an academic scholarship.
"People don't expect depression in young people . . . that are keeping it together, at least for the public," she said. "And that is what Madison was doing, to continue with the school and continuing with the track [team]. Most people would take it that she would come out of it fine because she appeared to have her act together."
Holleran's death was a reminder of the stress many college students face. An Inquirer story last year reported four confirmed suicides involving college students in Philadelphia since the start of the 2012-13 school year...
(Excerpt) Read more at philly.com ...
Maccabees is not part of the Bible
Jesus would have considered it Sacred Scripture.
You watch. Next it will be: “nobody can own a gun, because you might commit suicide.” Where are the “right to die” liberals? Freedom for me, never for thee.
Based on what? It goes against what the Bible teaches.
But I have hopes (sincerely) that you or some other well-informed FReeper can answer this question: who has the authority to take books out of the Bible?
And in particular --- I'd like to know who (name or names) claimed the authority to take seven books out of the King James Bible in 1640?
I find it an intriguing question, and I've never been able to get the answer.
The King James Bible, first published in 1611, contained the full Bible as defined by the earliest Christian canons of the 3 rd-5 th centuries. That is, the 1611 KJV included, not just 66 books, but the entire un-cut Bible (73 books). This “whole” canon approved by Catholic councils and popes in the 3rd-5th centuries, is found in print in the Tyndale-Matthew Bible (1537) , the Great Bible (1539) , the Bishops Bible (1568) , the Protestant Geneva Bible (1560) , and the original King James Bible (1611) ---all of these are Protestant Bibles--- until parts of it were intentionally deleted by a series of subsequent Bible revisers from 1640-1880. This leads to the very natural question, where did they get their new, several-books- smaller Biblical canon, and who authorized that?
Reasons why the Apocrypha does not belong in the Bible
Reasons why the Apocrypha does not belong in the Bible
by Ryan Turner (carm.org)
Catholics and Protestants disagree regarding the exact number of books that belong in the Old Testament Scriptures. The dispute between them is over seven books, part of what is known as the Apocrypha: 1 and 2 Maccabees, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), Wisdom (Wisdom of Solomon), Baruch, Tobit, Judith, and additions to Daniel and Esther.1 However, there are a number of reasons why the Old Testament Apocrypha should not be part of the Canon, or standard writings of Scripture.
Rejection by Jesus and the Apostles
1. There are no clear, definite New Testament quotations from the Apocrypha by Jesus or the apostles. While there may be various allusions by the New Testament to the Apocrypha, there are no authoritative statements like “thus says the Lord,” “as it is written,” or “the Scriptures say.” There are references in the New Testament to the pseudepigrapha (literally “false writings”) (Jude 14-15) and even citations from pagan sources (Acts 17:22-34), but none of these are cited as Scripture and are rejected even by Roman Catholics. In contrast, the New Testament writers cite the Old Testament numerous times (Mt 5; Lk 24:27; Jn 10:35) and use phrases such as “thus says the Lord,” “as it is written,” or “the Scriptures say,” indicating their approval of these books as inspired by God.
2. Jesus implicitly rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture by referring to the entire accepted Jewish Canon of Scripture, “From the blood of Abel [Gen 4:8] to the blood of Zechariah [2 Chron 24:20], who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation (Lk 11:51; cf. Mt 23:35).”
http://carm.org/apocrypha-it-scripture
Not quoted in the New Testament
First of all, neither Jesus nor the apostles ever quoted from the Apocrypha. There are over 260 quotations of the Old Testament in the New Testament, and not one of them is from these books. Nevertheless, a Roman Catholic might respond by saying that there are several Old Testament books that are not quoted in the New Testament, i.e., Joshua, Judges, Esther, etc. Does this mean that they aren’t inspired either? But, these books had already been accepted into the canon by the Jews, where the Apocrypha had not. The Jews recognized the Old Testament canon and they did not include the Apocrypha in it. This is significant because of what Paul says:
“Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God,” (Rom. 3:1-2).
Paul tells us that the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. This means that they are the ones who understood what inspired Scriptures were and they never accepted the Apocrypha.
I have counter-points to make against these arguments, but not the time to do so tonight (it's almost my bedtime, and I'm early-out tomorrow.) However let me just make this one observation:
Nobody has yet answered my actual question, which was:
Who has the authority to take books out of the Bible? (Or another way to put it is: Who has the authority to determine which books are Scripture and which are not?)
And in particular --- I'd like to know who (name or names) claimed the authority to take seven books out of the King James Bible in 1640?
The salient point is that Protestant Bibles all ACCEPTED these seven books in Protestant Bibles published in 1537, 1539, 1560, 1568, 1611, by a number of Protestant reformers, translators, theologians, etc. and then pulled those books in 1640.
Who had that authority? Who made that decision? I'm looking for their names, and how they saw their authority to do this.
Thanks for giving me a chance to clarify. G'Night now!
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/bibleorigin.html
I haven’t read all of this yet but it seems very thorough. I, too, will be going to bed soon. Maybe we can both read through it tomorrow and discuss it. Very interesting.
That's it? Nothing in between? What if she lived a GOOD life but the last hour of her life she did something bad? Would she go to Hell because of that last hour bad deed? All the goodness she did and she ends up in Hell?
Hmmmmm, that is a Protestant point of view and you know that we Catholics believe in a purgatory where people can be purged of those sins that didn't earn them immediate HELL. NO ONE on this here good earth is so perfect that s/he goes straight to Heaven!
I'm not scolding or berating, just posing a question. Honestly!
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