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Supreme Court to weigh what it means to have a right to “bear” guns
Philly.com ^ | Thursday, February 6, 2014, 11:52 AM | Lyle Denniston

Posted on 02/06/2014 9:38:02 AM PST by Phillyred

The statement at issue:

There is “a growing line of court of appeals decisions that, while stopping short of holding that there is no Second Amendment right outside the home, consistently reach the same result by deeming any right to bear arms in public to be, at best, outside the Second Amendment’s ‘core’ and then balancing it away under an anemic form of intermediate scrutiny.”

– Charles J. Cooper, a Washington, D.C., attorney for the National Rifle Association, in a brief filed at the Supreme Court on Monday, urging the Justices to strike down a law that bans minors from carrying a handgun in public, beyond the home.

We checked the Constitution and...

The Second Amendment, at its core, spells out not one, but two, rights when it protects “the right of the people.” There is a right to “keep” a gun, there is a right, to “bear” a gun. There is an “and” between the two in the text, so that might well be taken as a significant indication that these are separate rights.

The Supreme Court in 2008 made it clear that the right to “keep” a gun is a personal right, and that it means one has a right to keep a functioning firearm for self-defense within the home. But it has refused repeatedly since then to take on the question of whether that right exists also outside the home. If there is a separate right to “bear” a gun (and the Court, in fact, did say in 2008 that the two rights were separate), it has not said what that means...

(Excerpt) Read more at philly.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: banglist; beararms; guns; nra
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1 posted on 02/06/2014 9:38:02 AM PST by Phillyred
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To: Phillyred

It DOESN’T SAY A DAMN thing about “Guns” it says ARMS! G*D I HATE BIG CITIES!


2 posted on 02/06/2014 9:40:22 AM PST by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Phillyred

Why is this issue settle and then rehashed ad nauseam?


3 posted on 02/06/2014 9:40:43 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Phillyred

It’s not “bear GUNS’ it’s ‘bear ARMS”...........BIG difference.......................


4 posted on 02/06/2014 9:40:46 AM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: Phillyred

I don’t see “but only inside the home” anywhere in there.

Where’s the confusion?


5 posted on 02/06/2014 9:40:53 AM PST by TheZMan (Buy more ammo.)
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To: fwdude

Right, abortion on demand is “settled” law in our constitution apparently, but the black and white right to keep and bear arms is not? The right to express your faith in public is not?


6 posted on 02/06/2014 9:44:06 AM PST by Phillyred
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To: US Navy Vet
Yet if I strap on a sword and go walking down the street, it wouldn't take long to get picked up by the constabulary.

You are very correct, and the right to bear 'all the terrible implements of the soldier' is our fundamental right.

/johnny

7 posted on 02/06/2014 9:45:43 AM PST by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: Phillyred

I believe the proper, “original intent” of the separate right of being free to “bear” arms is that regardless if it is a firearm, a sword, a peashooter, a tactical nuke, an M1 Abrahams tank, a Federation starship, or a shark with frikken laser beams...

...that we have the right to take this arm and apply it’s full intended purpose against those that seek to eliminate the “keep” right.


8 posted on 02/06/2014 9:47:11 AM PST by Rodamala
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To: Red Badger

Yep, ARMS can be anything from guns and swords to a baseball bat.


9 posted on 02/06/2014 9:47:15 AM PST by Beagle8U (Unions are Affirmative Action for Slackers! .)
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To: Phillyred

*** But it has refused repeatedly since then to take on the question of whether that right exists also outside the home.***

Dred Scott vs Sanford.

What the SCOTUS thought about gun control in the pre Civil War era.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0060_0393_ZO.html

“It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognised as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, singly or in companies, without pass or passport, and without obstruction, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law for which a white man would be punished;
and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs,
and to KEEP AND CARRY ARMS wherever they went.


10 posted on 02/06/2014 9:48:39 AM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Red Badger

Does this mean I can or can’t roll up my sleeves outside of my home?


11 posted on 02/06/2014 9:50:42 AM PST by US_MilitaryRules (Tastes like Heaven, Burns like Hell! Mmmmmm. What is it?)
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To: TheZMan

There is none per se. However, when you want something no else does the water needs to be really muddied. Hence, the use guns vs arms. The more confusing and muddled you can make things the better. Then its easy enough to redefine words and language to make them mean what you want w/o actually revealing your true intent. People assume your words and phases mean something they dont mean.


12 posted on 02/06/2014 9:51:33 AM PST by 556x45
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To: Phillyred

What that headline REALLY means is that they will attempt to RE WRITE the Constitution on the right of American citizens to bear arms.


13 posted on 02/06/2014 9:51:52 AM PST by SMARTY ("When you blame others, you give up your power to change." Robert Anthony)
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To: US_MilitaryRules

You can ‘bare’ as much as you, or your neighbors, can ‘bear’.......................


14 posted on 02/06/2014 9:52:20 AM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: Phillyred
There is an “and” between the two in the text, so that might well be taken as a significant indication that these are separate rights.

LOL! What a bunch of low hanging fruit!

The Founders knew full well that the function of a conjunction was to bind 2 things together.

If their intentions were for the acknowledgment to be considered separate, they would have written 'the Right to keep OR bear arms'.

15 posted on 02/06/2014 9:54:38 AM PST by MamaTexan (Due to the newly adopted policy at FR, every post I make may be my last.)
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To: fwdude

“Why is this issue settle and then rehashed ad nauseam?”

Liberals are like those movie monsters who get killed but there’s still five minutes left. POV over monster’s prostrate form. The cute young couple come close to look. The monster jumps up and charges. This will keep getting rehashed until liberals are satisfied with the “right” resolution. The cost of freedom is eternal vigilance.


16 posted on 02/06/2014 9:55:35 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: Rodamala
I believe the proper, “original intent” of the separate right of being free to “bear” arms is that regardless if it is a firearm, a sword, a peashooter, a tactical nuke, an M1 Abrahams tank, a Federation starship, or a shark with frikken laser beams...

Good luck strapping on that M1 tank!!!

17 posted on 02/06/2014 9:55:54 AM PST by jda ("Righteousness exalts a nation . . .")
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To: Phillyred

Do the Supremes really have final authority? Can we not legislatively affirm that 2A is and will remain a right and cannot be infringed upon?

Not 100% sure, but I thought I heard Mark Levin once say that the State Legislatures actually are more powerful than the US Congress (I assume he means provided they get a set).

Can no longer trust the Roberts Court.


18 posted on 02/06/2014 9:57:27 AM PST by MichaelCorleone (Jesus Christ is not a religion. He's the Truth.)
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To: US Navy Vet; All
It DOESN’T SAY A DAMN thing about “Guns” it says ARMS! G*D I HATE BIG CITIES!

Good point! The word gun is not used in the Constitution. Correction welcome.

19 posted on 02/06/2014 9:57:33 AM PST by Amendment10
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To: Phillyred
– Charles J. Cooper, a Washington, D.C., attorney for the National Rifle Association, in a brief filed at the Supreme Court on Monday, urging the Justices to strike down a law that bans minors from carrying a handgun in public, beyond the home

I hate these cases because since it is about a minor's right to carry we are going to get another muddied decision like Heller.

20 posted on 02/06/2014 9:58:25 AM PST by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: Beagle8U

Or pitchforks?


21 posted on 02/06/2014 10:00:47 AM PST by punknpuss
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To: Phillyred

Lord knows what Roberts will do with this one.


22 posted on 02/06/2014 10:01:42 AM PST by b4its2late (A Progressive is a person who will give away everything he doesn't own.)
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To: Phillyred

A hell of a lot of ‘minors’ took up arms to defeat the British. Many of them gave their lives so that we might live in freedom. A pox on those who disavow their sacrifice.


23 posted on 02/06/2014 10:02:01 AM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Phillyred
bear - v - To carry from one place to another; transport.
24 posted on 02/06/2014 10:02:53 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: Phillyred
I heard something else about the Texas case. One cannot get a carry permit until age 21. This article is stating the law prevents “minors” from carrying. Last time I checked once a person turns 18 they are no longer a minor. They can vote, be tried for crime as an adult, and are subject to the military draft. They no longer need parental permission for anything.

This fact is my argument against the age 21 drinking laws. One could be forced (by the draft) to fight for one’s country yet cannot have a beer.

I'll also bring up a pet peeve about the media. They a report that a “teen” committed a crime when the perp is 18 or 19. Technically they are correct, however most think of a teen as 13 to 17.

25 posted on 02/06/2014 10:03:33 AM PST by fredhead (Join the Navy and see the world.....77% of which is covered in water.)
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To: Beagle8U

Or even arms.

As in: “I’m going to rip your arm off and beat you over the head with it”.


26 posted on 02/06/2014 10:04:35 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: Rodamala

or a plasma rifle in the 40 watt range...


27 posted on 02/06/2014 10:04:55 AM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Phillyred

“it has not said what that means...”

The people questioning the wording want the meaning to be as limited as possible.
Those who wrote the wording intended as expansive a meaning as possible.

More words are not going to resolve this.


28 posted on 02/06/2014 10:06:31 AM PST by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.)
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To: WayneS

LOL

You must be a hillbilly.

:]


29 posted on 02/06/2014 10:07:36 AM PST by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Beagle8U

They’ll just put a bunch of disabled weapons attached via cable in parks and other public space. People can come by and pick them up and handle them whenever they want thus ensuring the public’s right to bear arms is not infringed.

/s


30 posted on 02/06/2014 10:07:37 AM PST by Justa
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To: Phillyred
Just one more thing. The entire country should be required to follow the 2nd Amendment. Just like this case in Virginia from a few years back.

VA law allows open carry without a permit. Norfolk police arrested a man for openly carrying a weapon in the city in violation of a city ordinance.

The case made it to the VA supreme court, who ruled that no municipality can pass a law the supersedes a state law, e.g. Norfolk's ordinance was invalid.

Therefore, any state, county, or city law MUST be constitutional.

31 posted on 02/06/2014 10:10:44 AM PST by fredhead (Join the Navy and see the world.....77% of which is covered in water.)
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To: Salamander

Yep. Pretty much.


32 posted on 02/06/2014 10:13:11 AM PST by WayneS (Respect the 2nd Amendment; Repeal the 16th (and 17th))
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To: Phillyred

My HOME is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.


33 posted on 02/06/2014 10:16:58 AM PST by BulletBobCo
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To: Phillyred

“The main foundations of every state, new states as well as ancient or composite ones, are good laws and good arms - you cannot have good laws without good arms, and where there are good arms, good laws inevitably follow.”

—Niccolo Machiavelli


34 posted on 02/06/2014 10:17:53 AM PST by RandallFlagg ("I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." --Quigley)
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To: ctdonath2

“More words are not going to resolve this.”

No, and I’m sure not getting any younger.


35 posted on 02/06/2014 10:21:32 AM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: MichaelCorleone
Not 100% sure, but I thought I heard Mark Levin once say that the State Legislatures actually are more powerful than the US Congress

The State Legislatures can make any law, let's say a gun law, outside the jurisdiction of their state courts. CONgress can also make laws outside the jurisdiction of Federal Courts. Its called Jurisdiction stripping.

The Federal and State Legislatures could do this to overcome activists Judges but they do not for this reason: they agree with with the activist Judges but can't let the rubes at home know that.

36 posted on 02/06/2014 10:21:43 AM PST by Count of Monte Fisto (The foundation of modern society is the denial of reality.)
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To: b4its2late
Lord knows what Roberts will do with this one.

Roberts won't know either until he gets Valerie's text.

37 posted on 02/06/2014 10:22:14 AM PST by Paine in the Neck (Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor)
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To: WayneS

I had a feeling since I don’t ever hear that said outside the mountains.

:)


38 posted on 02/06/2014 10:25:56 AM PST by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Phillyred

They’ll be trying to convince us that the Founders meant that it is OK to wear tank tops and nothing more...

The word “bear” was merely a spelling error...yeah, that’s the ticket!


39 posted on 02/06/2014 10:27:52 AM PST by PATRIOT1876
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To: PATRIOT1876

Nobody asked the bears.

40 posted on 02/06/2014 10:33:53 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Beagle8U
Yep, ARMS can be anything from guns and swords to a baseball bat.

Don't worry, 'they' will get to those after 'they' are done with guns.

41 posted on 02/06/2014 10:35:21 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." - George Orwell)
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To: Red Badger

You may go walking bare in the woods but it would be wise to at least bear a bear gun as your bare arms are not effective against bears.


42 posted on 02/06/2014 10:36:07 AM PST by sjmjax (Politicans are much like bananas. They start off green, turn yellow then rot.)
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To: b4its2late
Lord knows what Roberts will do with this one.

Whatever his handlers want him to do.

43 posted on 02/06/2014 10:36:40 AM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts ("The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." - George Orwell)
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To: US Navy Vet
Absolutely correct and very important.

Obviously the second amendment also protects Knives, Bow and Arrow, etc. but MOST IMPORTANTLY it protects arms of the future,yet to be invented. Phase Plasma Rifles in a 40 watt range are protected by the second amendment. Whatever our future soldiers carry as weapons MUST be protected by the second amendment or we will not have the protections as intended by the founders.

44 posted on 02/06/2014 10:37:57 AM PST by precisionshootist
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To: Phillyred

45 posted on 02/06/2014 10:44:38 AM PST by CodeToad (When ignorance rules a person's decision they are resorting to superstition.)
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To: sjmjax

I’ll bear that in mind....................


46 posted on 02/06/2014 10:54:13 AM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: sjmjax

My daughter has to carry a gun with her every time she goes out of the house where she lives. There are bears, and one was in her yard just before Thanksgiving...................


47 posted on 02/06/2014 10:55:45 AM PST by Red Badger (Proud member of the Zeta Omicron Tau Fraternity since 2004...................)
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To: MamaTexan
MamaTexan said: "If their intentions were for the acknowledgment to be considered separate, they would have written 'the Right to keep OR bear arms'."

I think you are over-simplifying the use of the conjunction. If I had a right to "dance and sing", you would claim that I can't simply dance without singing or sing without dancing?

48 posted on 02/06/2014 10:56:54 AM PST by William Tell
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To: Gen.Blather
The monster jumps up and charges.

In this case, the movie monster escapes, badly wounded, but to regroup and attack again at the next sequel.

49 posted on 02/06/2014 10:57:31 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Phillyred

Settled in 1791!


50 posted on 02/06/2014 11:07:29 AM PST by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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