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Lindsey Graham: NSA data collection 'not Fourth Amendment' issue
washingtonexaminer.com ^ | 2/12/14 | Joel Gehrke

Posted on 02/13/2014 5:23:29 AM PST by cotton1706

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., panned a lawsuit against National Security Agency data collection filed by Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., saying that the bulk phone data collection program does not involve the Fourth Amendment.

"I think collecting data is not a Fourth Amendment activity if it's related to gathering intelligence to prevent a terrorist attack," Graham told the Washington Examiner. "It's not being used to prosecute anybody. This is an intelligence-gathering process and we'll leave it up to the courts to see if it somehow has violated the Fourth Amendment."

Paul told reporters that the program conflicts directly with the Fourth Amendment. "I just want you to go to a judge, have a person's name, and individualize their warrant," he said, explaining that he doesn't oppose spying or the National Security Agency's ability to review some phone records. "That's what the Fourth Amendment says. I'm not against going to an individual who we suspect, with a warrant, and getting their phone records, and then if they called 100 people, I'm not against looking at those people."

The lawsuit drew mixed reactions in the Senate. Virginia Democrat Tim Kaine said that the NSA program needs some curtailing, but suggested that the real problem lies with the nature of the authorization for the use of military force that provides the legal backdrop for what used to be called the war on terror.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonexaminer.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: elections
Graham's primary is on June 10th!
1 posted on 02/13/2014 5:23:29 AM PST by cotton1706
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To: cotton1706

I suppose they found more pictures


2 posted on 02/13/2014 5:25:00 AM PST by ronnie raygun (zippy the a##clown sez..............................)
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To: cotton1706

Graham doesn’t understand the word ‘unreasonable’. He only understands ‘appeasement’ and big government.


3 posted on 02/13/2014 5:25:38 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: Gaffer

Our problem is not with the data being used to prevent terrorist attacks. Its when its used as a political tool for blackmail or intimidation, Linda Graham.


4 posted on 02/13/2014 5:28:17 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: cotton1706

First off, I’m not convinced they are just collecting metadata and not actual content of communications. But in any event, I’ve never heard whether whatever data they are collecting is stored and archived in a searchable format. If so then it is chillingly intrusive.


5 posted on 02/13/2014 5:28:35 AM PST by circlecity
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To: Gaffer

Now that’s not fair. Graham also understands the word AMNESTY.

I sure hope and pray that the good people of S.C. remember this on 10 June.


6 posted on 02/13/2014 5:28:53 AM PST by Howie66 (John Wayne McCornyn...he's just like US! Honest!)
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To: cotton1706

Traitor!


7 posted on 02/13/2014 5:30:52 AM PST by Faith65 (Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior!)
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To: cotton1706

lindsey graham (small letters for a small person) is not a Constitutional scholar. Maybe lindsey is having grand illusions of his power and authority again? It appears most of them do have those types of illusions. Congress and all those people in power in D.C. have one job and one job only and they forget their job constantly. Their job is protect and defend the American People instead the majority of congress and those in D.C. protect and defend terrorists. What a topsy tervy America We the People live in.


8 posted on 02/13/2014 5:31:22 AM PST by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Howie66

:o)


9 posted on 02/13/2014 5:32:42 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: cotton1706

What do they have on Graham that he would support this totalitarian activity.


10 posted on 02/13/2014 5:34:50 AM PST by BuffaloJack (Freedom isn't free; nor is it easy. END ALL TOTALITARIAN ACTIVITY NOW.)
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To: cotton1706

OMG! What a complete sellout this guy is.


11 posted on 02/13/2014 5:35:37 AM PST by faithhopecharity
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To: cotton1706
"I think collecting data is not a Fourth Amendment activity if it's related to gathering intelligence to prevent a terrorist attack," Graham told the Washington Examiner. "It's not being used to prosecute anybody. This is an intelligence-gathering process and we'll leave it up to the courts to see if it somehow has violated the Fourth Amendment."

Funny. I guess I missed the wording in the Fourth Amendment where it says "except for intelligence gathering purposes." Got caught with another live boy did ya', Linda?
12 posted on 02/13/2014 5:35:56 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: cotton1706

Dump Linda, SC.


13 posted on 02/13/2014 5:36:12 AM PST by VRWC For Truth (Roberts has perverted the Constitution)
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To: cotton1706
...the bulk phone data collection program does not involve the Fourth Amendment...

Well, respectfully Mr. Graham you're either lying or an idiot if you think the 4th Amendment does not apply.

"I think collecting data is not a Fourth Amendment activity if it's related to gathering intelligence to prevent a terrorist attack,"

So you admit that they are collecting data and it would normally be a 4th Amendment issue. With the "if" there though you are excusing them saying it is ok because the ends justify the means - since they are allegedly trying to prevent a terrorist attack it is all right by you that they violate the 4th Amendment.

"It's not being used to prosecute anybody. This is an intelligence-gathering process..."

Again it appears you believe the motives behind it justify it. Is it ok then, in your mind Mr. Graham, if the government violates our other protected rights too - as long as it is for our own good, to keep us "safe?" Tell me, who then keeps us safe from the government? You willing to let them violate your 1st Amendment rights, to keep you safe? (the IRS is trying) Your 2nd Amendment rights? (they sure are trying across the board) The 1st, 2nd, and 4th Amendments are the ones most directly under attack - for the children. To keep us safe, secure...

14 posted on 02/13/2014 5:37:21 AM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: cotton1706

The 4th guarantees freedom from search and seizure.

The NSA is not warantlessly searching nor seizing the property of citizens. The NSA is collecting data amassed by third party cell phone providers.

The question should be how can the cell providers resist the NSA request for the data?

As much as I hate to disagree with the man, he seems to be correct


15 posted on 02/13/2014 5:37:32 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: cotton1706

Bulk data stored this way is useless for anything. There is not enough time to search for anything unless you are looking for something specific.

But, if you annoy the government, well then lets just see who you’ve been talking to...


16 posted on 02/13/2014 5:39:24 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: cotton1706
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

Right, Lindsey, the Framers deliberately left out reference to the internet and other electronic means because they felt that would be ok - the principle of privacy against government intrusion wouldn't be affected by that sort of surveillance.

17 posted on 02/13/2014 5:39:25 AM PST by Paine in the Neck (Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor)
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To: cotton1706

Just like the Second Amendment is only about hunting.


18 posted on 02/13/2014 5:40:35 AM PST by MinstrelBoy (If you're a conservative today, you're a hero.)
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To: circlecity
...just collecting metadata ...

What's all this NSA data collection about?

It's about using the collected metadata to build social networks.

The NSA has been creating maps of American citizens' social networks

Why do they want to do that? What could social networks be used for in the hands of government? Consider:

Using Metadata to Find Paul Revere

How will such capabilities be used now? How They Hunt

Is it already too late?

19 posted on 02/13/2014 5:40:51 AM PST by Paine in the Neck (Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor)
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To: cotton1706

Yeah.? What law school did this dude attend? I was a a meeting of the federalist society and a law professor spoke. He said it is the lawyers who are the primary objectors holding this administration’s feet to the fire


20 posted on 02/13/2014 5:41:54 AM PST by yldstrk (My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: cotton1706
Grahamnesty better get his makeup checked...

His fifteen minutes are almost up...

JMO

21 posted on 02/13/2014 5:42:01 AM PST by Wings-n-Wind (The main things are the plain things!)
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To: cotton1706

Well Linda, if it’s not a 4th amendment issue, then what is it?


22 posted on 02/13/2014 5:43:07 AM PST by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: bert

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...”

Let me ask you, do you feel secure in your papers and effects if they are being passed on to a government agency without your consent?


23 posted on 02/13/2014 5:43:37 AM PST by cotton1706
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To: BuffaloJack


In all seriousness I don't doubt that the NSA has something on Graham and others but the fact remains that an honest man cannot be blackmailed.
24 posted on 02/13/2014 5:43:56 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Mr. K
Bulk data stored this way is useless for anything.

You are totally wrong. It is next to useless for its purported purpose - to prevent terrorism. But it is immensely effective for its actual purpose.

25 posted on 02/13/2014 5:44:52 AM PST by Paine in the Neck (Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor)
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To: bert

With respect. I spent many years working in this field. NSA activity does indeed meet the criteria of a “search.” Coloring it as “data collection” changes nothing.


26 posted on 02/13/2014 5:53:06 AM PST by PowderMonkey (WILL WORK FOR AMMO)
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To: cotton1706

I think you may miss the point of my argument.

My constitutionally protected personal papers etc are not being passed. The data is not mine, not in my possession.

The data in question is owned by AT&T.

Even if I do mind, I have no legal ability to prohibit AT&T from forking up all of the data.

In the old days, I’m sure my data was actually collected. In days of old, my extensive fax and telex traffic to numerous overseas locations was routinely monitored. I never had a problem though


27 posted on 02/13/2014 5:57:39 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Paine in the Neck

I think that is exactly MY point


28 posted on 02/13/2014 5:58:54 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: Mr. K
I think that is exactly MY point

I see, upon rereading, that it is. My apologies for jumping for the keyboard too quickly.

29 posted on 02/13/2014 6:09:16 AM PST by Paine in the Neck (Our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor)
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To: cotton1706

What lying sack o Shiite.


30 posted on 02/13/2014 6:10:12 AM PST by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: cotton1706
Follow me on this Lindsey...I (NSA) get bulk phone numbers. I take those phone numbers and look them up in Accurint (TM). Now I know where you live, your credit history, where you work, your car's registration, your political affiliation, if you have a CCW, how many homes you own, who your friends, and relatives are, where they live, etc..

Makes blackmail so easy, Lindsey. Just ask CJ John Roberts...

5.56mm

31 posted on 02/13/2014 6:12:31 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: cotton1706

FULG!


32 posted on 02/13/2014 6:18:08 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: bert

“The NSA is not warantlessly searching nor seizing the property of citizens. The NSA is collecting data amassed by third party cell phone providers.”

Sure. Like my emails.


33 posted on 02/13/2014 6:20:39 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: cotton1706

Poofter boy will go POOF!


34 posted on 02/13/2014 6:25:03 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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To: cotton1706

The NSA probably has pictures of Grahmnesty broken over like a shotgun. I am not comfortable with the apparent level of blackmail coming out of our corrupt capital.


35 posted on 02/13/2014 6:46:14 AM PST by RatRipper (The political left are utterly evil and corrupt)
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To: cotton1706

It’s time for Lindsey to go.


36 posted on 02/13/2014 6:53:59 AM PST by Real Cynic No More (Border Fence Obamacare!)
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To: cotton1706

Doing the dirty work so democrats won’t have to.


37 posted on 02/13/2014 7:38:52 AM PST by Iron Munro ("Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime." - Lavrentiy Beria (& Eric Holder))
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To: cotton1706; COUNTrecount; Nowhere Man; FightThePower!; C. Edmund Wright; jacob allen; ...

Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!

To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you must threaten to report me to the Mods if I don't add you to the list...

38 posted on 02/13/2014 7:53:01 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: cotton1706
"I think collecting data is not a Fourth Amendment activity if it's related to gathering intelligence to prevent a terrorist attack," Graham told the Washington Examiner. "It's not being used to prosecute anybody.

Which means, of course, that after review when no link to terrorism is found the data is deleted forever, right? < /sarc >

39 posted on 02/13/2014 8:50:33 AM PST by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: null and void

When will this Nancy Boy be primaried?


40 posted on 02/13/2014 8:59:33 AM PST by Nifster
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To: ronnie raygun

Apparently so.


41 posted on 02/13/2014 9:16:36 AM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: upchuck

*facepalm*


42 posted on 02/13/2014 9:20:03 AM PST by Slings and Arrows (You can't have Ingsoc without an Emmanuel Goldstein.)
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To: Nifster
When will this Nancy Boy be primaried?

Doubtless he will have a TEA party opponent, and the GOPe will do all they can to keep him from losing to a TEA party candidate, no matter what, even if it means bleeding the GOP coffers utterly dry.


43 posted on 02/13/2014 9:31:02 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: cotton1706
"It's not being used to prosecute anybody."

We already know that this is a lie thanks to some Snowden documents. They are passing along information to any number of other domestic agencies who are then lying about what their sources are.

This is absolutely a 4th amendment issue.

Lying bastard.

44 posted on 02/13/2014 11:17:08 AM PST by zeugma (Is it evil of me to teach my bird to say "here kitty, kitty"?)
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To: Paine in the Neck
What could social networks be used for in the hands of government?

It's going to come as a surprise to some people that they've been placed on various 'naughty' lists based on their associations. I'm sure some are probably going to be dinged on their 'how slavish is this citizen unit' score for their association with me, for instance.

45 posted on 02/13/2014 11:20:16 AM PST by zeugma (Is it evil of me to teach my bird to say "here kitty, kitty"?)
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