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Missouri gun murders 'rose after law repeal' (incoming hurl alert)
BBC ^ | February 17, 2014 | Jonathan Amos

Posted on 02/17/2014 7:55:24 AM PST by Seizethecarp

Researchers claim a new study provides some of the most compelling evidence yet for tighter gun controls in the US.

The team followed the consequences of the State of Missouri repealing its permit-to-purchase handgun law in 2007.

The law had required purchasers to be vetted by the local sheriff and to receive a licence before buying a gun.

Reporting soon in the Journal of Urban Health, the researchers will say that the repeal resulted in an immediate spike in gun violence and murders.

The study links the abandonment of the background check to an additional 60 or so murders occurring per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012.

"Coincident exactly with the policy change, there was an immediate upward trajectory to the homicide rates in Missouri," said Prof Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

"That upward trajectory did not happen with homicides that did not involve guns; it did not occur to any neighbouring state; the national trend was doing the opposite – it was trending downward; and it was not specific to one or two localities – it was, for the most part, state-wide," he told BBC News.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: 2a; banglist; guncontrol
Nice of them to give us a heads up about this impending Johns Hopkins Gun Grabber Institute study!

Of course, without the actual study the framing of this article can't be rebutted.

1 posted on 02/17/2014 7:55:25 AM PST by Seizethecarp
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To: Seizethecarp

“Reporting soon in the Journal of Urban Health, the researchers will say that the repeal resulted in an immediate spike in gun violence and murders.”

They just couldn’t wait to get the biased framing out there...


2 posted on 02/17/2014 7:56:54 AM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: Seizethecarp

“The Johns Hopkins researcher was participating in a discussion here at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

“The theme was ‘science-based strategies for reducing gun violence’.

Must be “science”, then! /s


3 posted on 02/17/2014 7:58:59 AM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: Seizethecarp

Of all the murders in Miami, Detroit, LA, Oakland, DC, Chicago, Atlanta, etc. how many are done with registered guns to the registered owners (not stolen)?

The BBC pursues it Marxist agenda, even in America.


4 posted on 02/17/2014 7:59:52 AM PST by wac3rd (Somewhere in Hell, Ted Kennedy snickers....)
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To: Seizethecarp

...and the story is posted on the BBC “Sci/Environment” webpage...


5 posted on 02/17/2014 8:00:16 AM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: Seizethecarp

It couldn’t have anything to do with the thousands of meth cookers in MO, could it/ When an Olympic skier from MO has the sad story of both her mother and sister in prison for dealing meth, you know there is a really BAD problem in MO.


6 posted on 02/17/2014 8:02:06 AM PST by txrefugee
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To: Seizethecarp

Lemme guess. The JHL government funded whitewash did not include ANY differentiation between crimes committed with gun licenses versus those WITHOUT (i.e., illegally owned/used guns) gun licenses.

Geez...JHL gets so damned much federal money from NIH etc. for all kinds of medical stuff - in the billions IIRC, they just can’t get enough of it - willing to sell their credentials for dogma and politics.


7 posted on 02/17/2014 8:03:16 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: Seizethecarp

A study that proves that the 2A is causing murders. Shocker...again.

Getting government grants for these studies must be easy. There sure are a lot of them.

“We have found a way to prove, via scientific study, that government’s lack of gun control causes more gun violence. Please send us a check for $2,000,000 for us to conduct the independent and unbiased scientific study.” - GRANTED! How soon can we get the results?!!


8 posted on 02/17/2014 8:04:36 AM PST by Tenacious 1 (My whimsical litany of satyric prose and avarice pontification of wisdom demonstrates my concinnity.)
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To: Gaffer

>>Geez...JHL gets so damned much federal money from NIH etc. for all kinds of medical stuff - in the billions IIRC, they just can’t get enough of it - willing to sell their credentials for dogma and politics.<<

First draw the lines, then plot the points.


9 posted on 02/17/2014 8:04:47 AM PST by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: Seizethecarp

But did murders rise, or did the weapon of choice among murderers simply change? One of my favorite anti-gun-grabbing statistics is the fact that per capita private firearms ownership in Russia is about a tenth that in the U.S. but the per capita murder rate is about eight times that here.

The victim is just as dead, the victim’s friends and family just as bereaved, human society just as diminished, and the murderer’s soul just as wounded when the victim was stabbed or bludgeoned to death as when the victim was shot. “Gun murders” and “gun crime” specious and morally vacuous categories that should be sneered at with the observation I just made (or like ones comparing the like terror when menaced with a handgun or a knife to the throat for crimes merely involving the threat of death) whenever someone uses them.


10 posted on 02/17/2014 8:06:34 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: Seizethecarp

Reporting soon in the Journal of Urban Health, the researchers will say that the repeal resulted in an immediate spike in gun violence and murders.”

I wonder whether the Journal of “Urban Health” (??? oxymoron much?) did any comparison to the gang-banger slaughter rates between “urban” IL and “urban” MO considering that Chicago in particular had total gun bans in place from 2008 to 2012...


11 posted on 02/17/2014 8:10:43 AM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: freedumb2003
First draw the lines, then plot cherrypick the plot points
12 posted on 02/17/2014 8:10:47 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: Seizethecarp
additional 60 or so murders occurring per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012.

crimes up while Obama is president

13 posted on 02/17/2014 8:12:30 AM PST by BookmanTheJanitor
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To: BookmanTheJanitor

“...additional 60 or so murders occurring per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012.”

No mention of any attempt at measuring murders (crimes) PREVENTED using right to keep and bear arms, of course!


14 posted on 02/17/2014 8:15:09 AM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: Seizethecarp

Meaningless without the data sets. Were the increased folks being killed criminals shot by their victims?

If so, this is a badly needed “correction” in the urban demographics.


15 posted on 02/17/2014 8:19:03 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Tre Norner eg ber, binde til rota...)
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To: Seizethecarp
From what I can find and according to FBI statistics, Missouri had a homicide rate of 7.7/100,000 in 2008. The respective numbers were 6.5 in 2009, 7.0 in 2010, 6.1 in 2011 and 6.5/100,000 in 2012.

I always thought that Hopkins guys were pretty smart and they've gotta be a lot smarter than I'll ever be to prove that 6.5 is a larger number than 7.7!

16 posted on 02/17/2014 8:30:34 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: The_Reader_David

The “intellectuals” said “homicides” rose, the impartial journalists wrote “murders.” There’s a big difference between the two. Even a justified killing is, legally speaking, a homicide. With more people able to defend themselves, it wouldn’t surprise me that the homicide rate would increase for a time.


17 posted on 02/17/2014 8:37:04 AM PST by Future Snake Eater (CrossFit.com)
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To: Seizethecarp

Gee, couldn’t be that MO’s murder rates are high and have been varying widely for the last 30 years? The rate is actually lower than in the 80s and at other times. This looks like a statistical fluctuation.


18 posted on 02/17/2014 8:45:49 AM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: Seizethecarp
The county background check was redundant with the FBI background check.

If they are going to make a big deal out of this, the story is that the FBI is incompetent.

19 posted on 02/17/2014 9:09:29 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam is a religion of peace, and Moslems reserve the right to behead anyone who says otherwise.)
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To: Seizethecarp

John Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.....

The source of this “study” should answer everyone’s questions.

Ex-mayor Bloomturd gave John Hopkins a buttload of money to do anti-gun studies, and some of that money was used to hire forty “researchers” to concoct these anti-gun studies.


20 posted on 02/17/2014 9:18:26 AM PST by july4thfreedomfoundation (I don't want to feel "safe." I want to feel FREE!)
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To: Seizethecarp

After a few generations living in a socialist country, the Brits are terrified of freedom. It is entirely foreign to them.


21 posted on 02/17/2014 9:43:33 AM PST by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
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To: All

Hmm. Missouri Crime Index Rates Per 100,000 Inhabitants says that in 2005 there were 6.9 murders per 100,000 people yet in 2012 there were 6.5 murders per 100,000 people.
I can’t wait for John Lott to tear this bogus ‘study’ to pieces.


22 posted on 02/17/2014 10:28:02 AM PST by pluvmantelo (The thing of it is, we must live with the living- Michel de Montaigne)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation
Link to the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research website:

http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-gun-policy-and-research/about_us/

"Investigation into the cause and prevention of gun injuries and fatalities began at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health more than twenty years ago as part of an overall injury prevention research effort. "

Though it may be more of a public health concern, apparently there aren't any Bloomberg Bucks available for investigating swimming pools that are statistically more of a danger to children than guns in general and "assault rifles" in particular.

Following the theme of of "propaganda", I saw HBO's "The Wire" and this illustration from the Hopkins website is NOT what most of the Baltimore gangsters -- who were often character actors drawn from Baltimore's gangster culture -- looked like!


23 posted on 02/17/2014 10:51:52 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Sooth2222
I am in the midst of a detailed study of The Wire..... it is hard TV. I watch at least twice.

Stringr bell and crew at the projects

Cops...... Bunk and Mcnulty

Avon/Stringer's projects crew.

lots of folks here don't watch TV but the Wire should be required. It is perhaps the best series ever.

24 posted on 02/17/2014 11:08:13 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: bert
I agree it's maybe the best TV series, ever.

When Hopkins starts off with a lie -- illustrating the problem of urban gun violence with a photo of a couple of white suburban kid models with a gun standing in front of a Baltimore project -- if they can't even use a photo that is accurate, they are never, ever going to be able to do anything about fixing the problem!

(Not that anything about gun control, Michael Bloomberg's money and Johns Hopkins has anything to do with fixing the problem.)

25 posted on 02/17/2014 11:27:38 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Sooth2222

“From what I can find and according to FBI statistics, Missouri had a homicide rate of 7.7/100,000 in 2008. The respective numbers were 6.5 in 2009, 7.0 in 2010, 6.1 in 2011 and 6.5/100,000 in 2012.”

Thanks for doing some key rebuttal legwork so quickly!


26 posted on 02/17/2014 11:28:10 AM PST by Seizethecarp (Defend aircraft from "runway kill zone" mini-drone helicopter swarm attacks: www.runwaykillzone.com)
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To: Seizethecarp
Reporting soon in the Journal of Urban Health, the researchers will say that the repeal resulted in an immediate spike in gun violence and murders.

Sad to say but there are people that can't handle living in a free society. Remember that old saying, with great power comes great responsibility. In a truly free country the individual has a great deal of power. That are some that can not or will not use that power responsibly.

For society to function then either the power from the individual must be removed or the individual who can't deal with the power must be removed. I vote on getting rid of the people that can not or will not hack it in civilized society. And I don't mean prison. Its too expensive and is no deterrent. Send them to the lawless wilderness were they belong.

27 posted on 02/17/2014 12:05:26 PM PST by Count of Monte Fisto (The foundation of modern society is the denial of reality.)
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To: Seizethecarp

Forgive me but wasn’t 2007 also the beginning of the economic meltdown?


28 posted on 02/17/2014 2:21:27 PM PST by Monorprise
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To: Gaffer

>>First draw the lines, then plot cherrypick the plot points<<

That was the point of the original post — you draw the lines and make the data fit the slope(s).


29 posted on 02/17/2014 3:52:08 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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