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Police Beat, Stun Deaf Man After Confusing Sign Language With Threatening Gestures
cbslocal.com ^ | February 17, 2014 | no attribution

Posted on 02/18/2014 5:14:01 PM PST by MeshugeMikey

Jonathan Meister was retrieving some stuff he was storing at an ex-roommate’s home when he looked up to find several members of the Hawthorne Police Department approaching. The South Bay man claims officers didn’t give him a chance to explain what he was doing before placing him in handcuffs, beating him and using a stun gun to shock him into submission. The problem began when police reportedly misunderstood Meister’s attempts to speak in sign language as threatening gestures.

(Excerpt) Read more at losangeles.cbslocal.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: donutwatch; leooutofcontrol; policestate
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1 posted on 02/18/2014 5:14:01 PM PST by MeshugeMikey
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To: MeshugeMikey

my son has had similar problems but not quite a severe as this


2 posted on 02/18/2014 5:16:06 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: bigheadfred

the first thing that came to mind when I first read the headline was the alleged sign language interterptor at the mandela funeral...


3 posted on 02/18/2014 5:17:56 PM PST by MeshugeMikey (Niemand ist immun ist, muss jeder haben Papiere!)
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To: MeshugeMikey

Deaf-Americans should understand that their use of signs can be interpreted as gang gestures, especially by those who have swore to protect and serve us.


4 posted on 02/18/2014 5:20:46 PM PST by sagar
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To: sagar
Deaf-Americans should understand that their use of signs can be interpreted as gang gestures

Since that's their only way of speaking, what do you recommend they do instead of using sign language?

5 posted on 02/18/2014 5:23:27 PM PST by LucyT
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To: MeshugeMikey

The guy at Mandela’s funeral pretty much admitted he was a 21st century schizoid man.

The problem is there are an increasingly number of “d” average high school bullies filling the police ranks.


6 posted on 02/18/2014 5:25:21 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: sagar

Then again those sworn to protect us could actually protect us!


7 posted on 02/18/2014 5:26:06 PM PST by chickenlips (Karl Rove: The Donut Whisperer)
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To: LucyT

“Since that’s their only way of speaking, what do you recommend they do instead of using sign language?”

Tell me this - when you are cornered by the police, despite your ability to make sounds, do you keep your mouth shut or keep yapping?


8 posted on 02/18/2014 5:27:24 PM PST by sagar
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To: chickenlips

Well, at least the brave young police officers made it home safely.

/sarc


9 posted on 02/18/2014 5:28:44 PM PST by House Atreides
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To: MeshugeMikey
Police initially charged Meister with assaulting officers but those charges were eventually dropped.

Every article about idiot police beating, hurting, assaulting, tazing, shooting people have this little tidbit lets you know they are in the wrong...

10 posted on 02/18/2014 5:33:34 PM PST by Popman ("Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: MeshugeMikey

Another ‘big dick’ cop showing how tough he is. -Cuz’ everybody knows how dangerous a deaf man is. That’s why they had to smack him in the head and taze him


11 posted on 02/18/2014 5:33:37 PM PST by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: MeshugeMikey

They are even worse that the LAPD that controlled the speakeasys during prohibition.

“To Protect (themselves before all others) and Serve (themselves before all others).”


12 posted on 02/18/2014 5:34:41 PM PST by A Formerly Proud Canadian (I once was blind, but now I see...)
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To: MeshugeMikey

Since there were no dogs to shoot somebody had to pay.


13 posted on 02/18/2014 5:35:27 PM PST by Free in Texas (Member of the Bitter Clingers Association.)
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To: House Atreides; Alaska Wolf; null and void
at least the brave young police officers made it home safely.

Wulfie will be so sad that he missed this...

14 posted on 02/18/2014 5:36:13 PM PST by NoCmpromiz (John 14:6 is a non-pluralistic comment.)
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To: MeshugeMikey

Is that the excuse they have for shooting dogs?


15 posted on 02/18/2014 5:36:20 PM PST by digger48
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To: MeshugeMikey


16 posted on 02/18/2014 5:37:14 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: MeshugeMikey
before placing him in handcuffs, beating him and using a stun gun to shock him into submission

Interesting order of events.

17 posted on 02/18/2014 5:37:15 PM PST by KarlInOhio (Recycled Olympic tagline Shut up, Bob Costas. Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!)
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To: MeshugeMikey

Before -all- of the cop haters show up... There’s a reasonable point to be made here. The deaf have a unique problem when it comes to dealing with police AND the police have a unique problem when it come to dealing with deaf people.

There ought to be a way for both parties to more quickly recognize and respond clearly to the situation. Cops need to be more aware of deafness and deaf people need a clear signal they can give to prevent misunderstanding. I don’t know what such a signal might be but it seems like there ought to be something that could be devised and promulgated through the deaf and police communities to make such interactions more predictable.


18 posted on 02/18/2014 5:40:41 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: MeshugeMikey

I think police these days must recruit the mentally deficient then feed them steroids.


19 posted on 02/18/2014 5:42:54 PM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: MeshugeMikey

Hey, the cops got to go home safe that night, that’s the important thing.....


20 posted on 02/18/2014 5:44:43 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: Ramius

You got to be kidding!


21 posted on 02/18/2014 5:52:43 PM PST by plainshame
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To: MeshugeMikey

civil rights violation. Americans with disabilities act. Sue their asses. End their careers.


22 posted on 02/18/2014 5:56:09 PM PST by RC one (Militarized law enforcement is just a nice way of saying martial law enforcement)
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To: saganite
"I think police these days must recruit the mentally deficient then feed them steroids."

Quote of the day.
23 posted on 02/18/2014 5:59:15 PM PST by softengine (Betrayal and Hypocrisy play on both sides of the fence.......but no one will admit it.)
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To: MeshugeMikey; All
I knew a deaf man when I was young. He had a business card that said he was deaf and he would hand it to people to let them know his disability. I think it was given to him from some local organization for the deaf.
Also it seems the man in the article was unarmed. He was just signing with his hands. As a former state LEO it seems they may have over reacted but I was not there so I will withhold judgment but I can say that in the last 15 years or so I have seen the level of training nosedive for most departments I have had any interaction with. Training is much more gung-ho and there is much less training in non violent intervention. A lot less common sense.
24 posted on 02/18/2014 6:01:19 PM PST by prof.h.mandingo (Buck v. Bell (1927) An idea whose time has come (for extreme liberalism))
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To: plainshame

Kidding about what?

Cops aren’t good at dealing with deaf people, or even recognizing when they are dealing with a deaf person AND deaf people aren’t good at dealing with police. Seems like something solvable if people would just figure it out.


25 posted on 02/18/2014 6:01:20 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: sagar
Deaf-Americans should understand that their use of signs can be interpreted as gang gestures, especially by those who have swore to protect and serve us.

Surely you meant to say that those whose duty it is to protect and serve should also be somewhat cognizant of American Sign Language. And, they shouldn't go into a situation so hot that they can't communicate with the suspect, right? Or is this another case of "if they don't speak English, they deserve it?"

Really, that's what you meant, right?

26 posted on 02/18/2014 6:03:04 PM PST by blu
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To: sagar

cops need to understand when i use sign language i am a free bird


27 posted on 02/18/2014 6:05:23 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: Ramius

Cops aren’t good at dealing with humans or animals the past 20-30 years.They have serious overreaction issues and can’t control themselves very well and many have no business being LEO’s.


28 posted on 02/18/2014 6:09:10 PM PST by plainshame
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To: prof.h.mandingo

When I attended the police academy 42 years ago much time was spent teaching recruits how to recognize people with disabilities (that was proper terminology back then). Particular attention was paid to the deaf, mentally ill, and diabetics with films depicting different scenarios played to “stop points” followed by “what happens next” discussions between the students and instructor. It took up class time that might have been spent on other subjects, but I absorbed plenty of info and insight which enabled me to navigate a 23 year career without ever embarrassing myself or my department with a train-wreck like the one described in this article.


29 posted on 02/18/2014 6:15:40 PM PST by 230FMJ (...from my cold, dead, fingers.)
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To: Ramius

How f’ing threatening can sign language hand movements be to an armed police officer???

How about police officers assume some risk in a high risk job instead of demanding everyone else’s safety come after their own. Don’t like the risk, don’t apply for the job. Somewhere along the way the mission to “serve and protect” has been lost.


30 posted on 02/18/2014 6:16:26 PM PST by DB
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To: MeshugeMikey

Just another day, servin’ and protectin’.


31 posted on 02/18/2014 6:20:47 PM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: DB
How about police officers assume some risk in a high risk job instead of demanding everyone else’s safety come after their own.

This.
32 posted on 02/18/2014 6:23:04 PM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: LucyT

Have a sign printed up (very slowly as public servants read slowly) for use in emergency situations. Example: I’m deaf, don’t shoot.


33 posted on 02/18/2014 6:36:20 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (On a good day Slow Joe doesn't do anything incredibly stupid ... waiting for that first good day!)
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To: RC one

One would think a woman being frisked by a MALE officer would be a civil rights violation; yet that seems to happen ALL the time.


34 posted on 02/18/2014 6:36:24 PM PST by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Ramius

Cops need to calm down.

Does that make me a cop hater?


35 posted on 02/18/2014 6:36:45 PM PST by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: bigheadfred

You better keep him far, far away from the cops then.


36 posted on 02/18/2014 6:38:33 PM PST by sport
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To: Ramius

“Cops aren’t good at dealing with deaf people, “

Cops have a built in institutional resort to violence. Immediately. With very little warning. At least with a dog you can see his hears lay back and it will show teeth.

The cops sometimes don’t even show badge. They just start kicking in doors and shooting people.

Defending modern Police is like defending Stalin. Aw hell. Joseph was just a farm boy.


37 posted on 02/18/2014 6:39:13 PM PST by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: bobby.223

Ping


38 posted on 02/18/2014 6:42:17 PM PST by sport
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To: MeshugeMikey

Now that all you cop bashers have had your say, a comment from someone who has a deaf aunt, a son with a deaf girlfriend, deaf friends, and has studied ASL (American Sign Language):

In the good old days (I’m approaching 70, and studied ASL 40 years ago) the sign for “I’m deaf” was “Ear + Closed”. Point to your ear, then make the “closed” sign. Pretty clear. If one was “core deaf” (i.e. born deaf as opposed to loosing their hearing later in life), a spoken word or two after that was signed once or twice is so different from what we normally hear is enough to drive the point home to even the dimmest among us.

The PC movement has affected the deaf community, too. See: http://www.handspeak.com/word/search.php?wordID=deaf&submitword=Find

That old sign is now #3 on the list, and, although it was widely recognizable by hearing people, is frowned upon by ASL teachers.

The core deaf have a great deal of trepidation about driving at night and being in an accident or being stopped by the police - for good reason. I tell them the same thing we tell the concealed carry class students. If stopped:

1/ Pull way off the road, turn on your flashers and turn off your engine
2/ All interior lights on, and, weather permitting, all windows down.
3/ Hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel
4/ Don’t reach down under the seat; don’t lean over to reach into the glove box.

AND/ Don’t use that dumba$$ politically correct sign for “Deaf”. Have a sign, or a small note pad with “I am deaf; can you please write me a note?” pre-written on it easily accessible. (My son’s girlfriend uses one of those electronic pads that you can write on without a pen).


39 posted on 02/18/2014 6:42:50 PM PST by QBFimi (/...o.o/.o...ooo/...o.o...o/ooo/...o.o/.o/ooo.//o..o./.o.)
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To: MeshugeMikey

... apparently, he did not have an assistance dog to shoot. What choice did they have?


40 posted on 02/18/2014 6:46:52 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: sport

He is a 25 year old man.

Most of his problems are in the job seeking field.

He recorded a job interview where the interviewer repeatedly asked him “are you being a smartass”

No I am deaf you effing a hole.

Most employers don’t won’t or don’t care enough to take on a liability in this job market.


41 posted on 02/18/2014 6:47:34 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: DariusBane

So I suppose you’re suggesting that there should be no police? If there’s no police then there’s no courts. So justice should just be served out by the people in mobs?


42 posted on 02/18/2014 6:50:26 PM PST by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: Ramius

No. Nice try.

I am saying that Police need monumental institutional reform.

The only people who can reform cops, are cops. Departments all over the country communicate with other through trade shows, educational seminars, through the Police Union. They can reform themselves.

If they do not. If they cannot. They must be defunded until they do.

Internal reform is very hard to do. Leaders with conscience and vision must step up.

Or, we the citizens can just quietly take our occasional beating. You cool with that? Or are you only cool with that until the day something bad happens to you or to one of your loved ones? What will it take for you to have sympathy for the powerless?

I am a small government conservative. That view is incompatible for powerful cities wielding powerful unfettered Police. Do you disagree?


43 posted on 02/18/2014 6:55:11 PM PST by DariusBane (Liberty and Risk. Flip sides of the same coin. So how much risk will YOU accept?)
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To: bigheadfred

When I was growing up, we had a barber that was deaf in our town. my daddy wrote down how he wanted him to cut our hair. I wish there was some advice I could give you, but words fail me. Good luck and God Bless you.


44 posted on 02/18/2014 6:56:20 PM PST by sport
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To: Ramius
A zero-tolerance enforcement policy of 18 U.S. Code § 242* will do a lot more to curb police misbeahavior than touchy-feely crap.

_________________________________________________________________

*Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both;

and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;

and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death

45 posted on 02/18/2014 6:57:50 PM PST by Ken H (What happens on the internet, stays on the internet.)
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To: DariusBane

In the view of some, yes.


46 posted on 02/18/2014 6:58:47 PM PST by sport
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To: LucyT
Since that's their only way of speaking, what do you recommend they do instead of using sign language?

Mooning.

47 posted on 02/18/2014 6:59:12 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: sport
hahaha (hugs)

from the heart

words didn't fail you

Good luck and God Bless you.

48 posted on 02/18/2014 7:02:12 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: P-Marlowe
Mooning.

what kind of asinine statement is that LOL

49 posted on 02/18/2014 7:03:33 PM PST by bigheadfred
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To: DariusBane
Internal reform is very hard to do.

KILL the IBOP

50 posted on 02/18/2014 7:07:34 PM PST by bigheadfred
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