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February 17, 2014: Supreme Court may rule on guns outside the home, 9:23 p.m. EST
USA TODAY | February 17, 2014 | Richard Wolf

Posted on 02/18/2014 9:47:33 PM PST by neverdem

Here's the link.


TOPICS: US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; alangura; banglist; guncontrol; scotus; secondamendment; youwillnotdisarmus
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Alan Gura, of Heller and McDonald fame, has an appeal from folks in NJ as well, Drake v. Jerejian.
1 posted on 02/18/2014 9:47:34 PM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem

I don’t care what they say. The constitution and natural law tell me what’s what.


2 posted on 02/18/2014 9:50:03 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: neverdem

Sounds like another constitutional right about to go down the tubes.


3 posted on 02/18/2014 9:51:21 PM PST by doc1019
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To: neverdem
None of those cases directly raises the next big legal issue in the national debate over guns: whether the right to keep a gun at home for self-defense extends to public places.

I'm in a public place, therefore my right to self defense is in a public place. I don't know by what idiocy anyone would think "...keep and bear arms..." in any way was restricted to just the domicile.

4 posted on 02/18/2014 9:53:13 PM PST by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: doc1019

Only if it’s not asserted.


5 posted on 02/18/2014 9:53:27 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: neverdem
"the right to keep a gun at home for self-defense"

Where in the second amendment does it say "at home" or "self defense"?

6 posted on 02/18/2014 9:56:59 PM PST by matthew fuller (The GOP is dead- Long Live the TEA Party!)
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To: Coleus; jocon307; Alberta's Child; Pharmboy; Calpernia; Malsua; dead; nj26; OldFriend; Clemenza; ...
BANG!
7 posted on 02/18/2014 9:57:59 PM PST by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: matthew fuller

Says nothing of the sort. It instead says “shall not be infringed”, which means the SCOTUS becomes lawless if they rule against that law.


8 posted on 02/18/2014 10:10:29 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Be prepared for a ruling to screw us. Just saying.


9 posted on 02/18/2014 10:12:13 PM PST by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Supreme Court defined what such rights were just before the Civil War.

Dred Scott vs Sanford.
What the SCOTUS thought about gun control in the pre Civil War era.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0060_0393_ZO.html

It would give to persons of the negro race, who were recognised as citizens in any one State of the Union, the right to enter every other State whenever they pleased, singly or in companies, without pass or passport, and without obstruction, to sojourn there as long as they pleased, to go where they pleased at every hour of the day or night without molestation, unless they committed some violation of law for which a white man would be punished;

and it would give them the full liberty of speech in public and in private upon all subjects upon which its own citizens might speak; to hold public meetings upon political affairs,

and to KEEP AND CARRY ARMS wherever they went.


10 posted on 02/18/2014 10:13:18 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

Hah. “Settled law”, right?


11 posted on 02/18/2014 10:15:48 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: doc1019

Sure does. Now we know why DHS has 1.6 billion hollow points at the ready.


12 posted on 02/18/2014 10:23:32 PM PST by Paulie (Buy local, bank local, exert your influence locally; the left will fold like a cheap suit.)
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To: Paulie
Now we know why DHS has 1.6 billion hollow points at the ready.

Saves running to the store when they have to abandon them.

13 posted on 02/18/2014 10:27:13 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: Paulie
Now we know why DHS has 1.6 billion hollow points at the ready.

Saves running to the store when they have to abandon them.

14 posted on 02/18/2014 10:27:38 PM PST by Myrddin
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To: ThunderSleeps
I don't know by what idiocy anyone would think "...keep and bear arms..." in any way was restricted to just the domicile.

Ask and ye shall receive:


15 posted on 02/18/2014 10:32:36 PM PST by bkopto (Free men are not equal. Equal men are not free.)
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To: matthew fuller

That was Scalia and crew with Heller. They helped put limitations on gun ‘rights’.


16 posted on 02/18/2014 10:36:59 PM PST by Theoria (End Socialism : No more GOP and Dem candidates)
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To: neverdem

The Narrative of Thomas Mellen, 1848 - aged 92
Survivor of The Battle of Bennington Aug. 16,1777:

“I enlisted,” said he, “at Francestown NH in Colonel Stickney’s regiment and Captain Clark’s company, as soon as I learned that Stark would accept the command of the State troops; six or seven others from the same town joined the army at the same time. We marched forthwith to Number Four and stayed there a week. Meantime I received a horn of powder and run two or three hundred bullets. I HAD MY OWN GUN.”
[my caps]
“History of Newbury, Vermont: From the Discovery of the Coös Country to the Present Time”
edited by Frederic Palmer Well, 1902


17 posted on 02/18/2014 10:37:00 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The constitution and natural law tell me what’s what.

Word.
18 posted on 02/18/2014 10:39:34 PM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: neverdem

Are we to be instructed that the right of self defense is conditioned on one’s location?


19 posted on 02/18/2014 10:45:17 PM PST by Elsiejay (in)
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To: doc1019

I wouldn’t be so sure. To assert that the right to self defense is legitimate inside but not outside of one’s house would deny the fundamental civil right to homeless people, renters, and travellers. I don’t think they can make that case and remain legitimate.


20 posted on 02/18/2014 10:49:35 PM PST by RC one (Militarized law enforcement is just a nice way of saying martial law enforcement)
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To: doc1019

it will be everyone’s duty to disregard such a ruling.


21 posted on 02/18/2014 11:06:06 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: RC one

to say you can’t defend yourself from people outside your home is crazy. there’s a lot more dangerous people outside your home. to say ‘then don’t leave your house’ deprives one of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and turns home into prison.


22 posted on 02/18/2014 11:09:02 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: neverdem

HOW TO DEAL WITH DOMESTIC TRAITORS

“Emerson Corliss agreeable to an act of the Legislature of Vermont passed on the 6th of November 1812. Met at dwelling house of Gideon Tuxbury in Newbury on the 4th day of March AD 1813 for the purpose of choosing the officers to fill said company.

Original owned by Hon. Henry C McDuffie

Bradford Emerson Corliss,Captain
Nathan B Taplin, Sergeant
James Davis, 1st Lieutenant
James McDuffie, Corporal
Daniel Leslie, 2d Lieutenant
Benjamin Rowe, sergeant

John McDuffie Sergeant
Mannasser Leach
Eben S McFarlin sergeant
Moody Grow, Corporal
Thomas Hilands sergeant
Samuel Grow Ensign
John McDuffie Sergeant
Mannasser Leach sergeant
Eben S McFarlin sergeant
Samuel Grow Ensign

privates:

Ephraim Aldrich James M Hinds Suas Aldrich Aseph Hyde Isaiah Batchclder
Elijah Howard John G Bayley Timothy Heath Abner Bayley
William Kinnard John Bayley William Ladd Samuel Chapman Moses Mills
Jacob Colby James Martin John Corliss John Martin Nathan Colbv David Manson
Timothy Corliss Humphrey Nichols John Carter Moses Page Nathl H Cunningham
John Putnam Fenno Dean Stephen Rogers Benjamin Duty Billy Stearns Timner Dodge
Peter Severance Nathan Dustin Silas Sweet Jr Lemuel Fuller Jr Jonas Taplin
John Gaffield William Wilson

John Bradford 5th March 1813 Honored Sir:
In obedience to your commission I have enlisted good and effective privates and have led them to a choice of officers on the 4th instant and all agree to stand ready at a moment’s warning at the call of our country and that no lines shall stop us if we are called either against foreign enemies or DOMESTIC TRAITORS and all agree to obey the orders of their superior officers according to the rules and articles of war. I have herewith sent you a copy of the
enlistment and the names of the several persons enlisted out of whom James Davis of Topsham was chosen first Lieutenant, Daniel Leslie of Bradford second Lieutenant and
Samuel Grow of Newbury ensign. All of them have accepted their appointments and if you would be so good as to send to each of them their commissions as soon as possible.
I should be pleased This from your friend who will always endeavor to stand ready in obedience to your call.
John McDuffee [MY CAPS]

To his Excellency Jonas Galusha Gov of the State of Vermont
NB Please to direct the commissions if forwarded to the Post Office Bradford. This was a company of Minute Men which enlisted to be called upon in case of an emergency but not having been needed it was discharged at the close of the war in 1815. The captain of the company Emerson Corliss was an old Revolutionary hero. He enlisted when he was only seventeen years of age and was in the battles of Bunker Hill, Trenton, Princeton, Bennington, Stillwater,
Saratoga, and many others. He was twice wounded and at the battle of Bennington. seven balls were shot through his coat and one through his hat. Mrs. PS Chamberlin of Bradford and Mrs RW Chamberlin of Newbury are his granddaughters.” p410

A “Company of Independent Militia marched to Fort Ticon deroga under the command of Captain Thomas Johnson in 1777 and assisted in the siege of Mount Independence” p.404

“History of Newbury, Vermont: From the Discovery of the Coös Country to he Present Time.”
edited by Frederic Palmer Well


23 posted on 02/18/2014 11:30:20 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: bkopto; ThunderSleeps
Parker was renamed Heller for DC's appeal to SCOTUS. Heller was deemed as having standing.

Why You Should Care About Parker v. District of Columbia

"We also note that at least three current members (and one former member) of the Supreme Court have read "bear Arms" in the Second Amendment to have meaning beyond mere soldiering: "Surely a most familiar meaning [of 'carries a firearm'] is, as the Constitution's Second Amendment ('keepand bear Arms') and Black's Law Dictionary . . . indicate: 'wear, bear, or carry . . . upon the person or in the clothing or in a pocket, for the purpose . . . of being armed and ready for offensive or defensive action in a case of conflict with another person." Muscarello v. United States, 524 U.S. 125, 143 (1998) (Ginsburg, J., dissenting, joined by Rehnquist, C.J., Scalia, J.,and Souter, J.) (emphasis in original). Based on the foregoing, we think the operative clause includes a private meaning for"bear Arms."

24 posted on 02/18/2014 11:40:56 PM PST by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: bunkerhill7

Thanks for the history!


25 posted on 02/18/2014 11:47:13 PM PST by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
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To: matthew fuller
The ruling in Heller was specifically about the Washington DC ban on firearms in the home. Thus Scalia limited himself to that narrow aspect of the 2nd Amendment. The self defense aspect is part of the reasoning that the 2nd Amendment is, and always has been, about firearms ownership for personal defense. In Peruta, the 9th Circuit made it clear that any previous rulings, particularly the post-Miller rulings, that do not view the 2nd Amendment in that light are not valid and were not part of their deliberations. From there, they reasoned that the right to a means for self defense could not be reasonably limited to the home. California law, by denying any means for carrying a firearm for self defense to the vast majority of citizens in places like SD County or LA County, violates that right.
26 posted on 02/18/2014 11:53:15 PM PST by Redcloak (Was that the primary buffer panel?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Exactly. Getting very tired of idiots twisting things.


27 posted on 02/19/2014 12:31:34 AM PST by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: All

I don’t think it’s all that bad. let’s say they rule only in the home, not good, but, arms can still be stockpiled for use against tyrants, the only thing that really matters.


28 posted on 02/19/2014 1:49:34 AM PST by willywill
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To: neverdem

When analyzing this article, consider the source - its a left wing rag.

Stare Decisis.


29 posted on 02/19/2014 2:43:16 AM PST by ZULU (Magua is sitting in the Oval Office. Ted Cruz/Phil Robertson in 2016.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"9:23 p.m. EST"

On what date? :)

30 posted on 02/19/2014 3:53:54 AM PST by Ken H (What happens on the internet, stays on the internet.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

oops - meant to reply to post #1


31 posted on 02/19/2014 3:55:14 AM PST by Ken H (What happens on the internet, stays on the internet.)
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To: doc1019

No one “gives” us liberty...liberty is something we must “take”...


32 posted on 02/19/2014 3:58:33 AM PST by unread (Rescind the 17th. Amendment...bring the power BACK to the states...!)
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To: bkopto

THAT is a photo that should make ANY American patriots blood run cold....!


33 posted on 02/19/2014 4:28:10 AM PST by unread (Rescind the 17th. Amendment...bring the power BACK to the states...!)
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To: neverdem

If they rule against a right of having a firearm outside the home(self defense), the Congress should remove funding for every Federal Marshal and security detail at the SCOTUS and Federal Courts that ruled against us. We’ll see how they enjoy being exposed to the same world as we are.


34 posted on 02/19/2014 4:53:43 AM PST by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: neverdem

bfl


35 posted on 02/19/2014 5:02:17 AM PST by Faith65 (Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior!)
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To: Elsiejay
Are we to be instructed that the right of self defense is conditioned on one’s location?

We know it is void if you are inside a womb.


36 posted on 02/19/2014 5:02:22 AM PST by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is)
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To: neverdem

with a CCW I’m going in to ANY city situation without my Kimber?
I don’t think so.
You think the police can or will protect you?
Ask all those who’ve been assaulted by these criminals.
Trevon had it right.


37 posted on 02/19/2014 5:08:38 AM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: neverdem

Thanks for posting this, neverdem.


38 posted on 02/19/2014 5:15:53 AM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: neverdem
I'm sure the Founders didn't intend guns to be carried outside the home - they knew you can have a "well-regulated militia" without leaving the home. Afterall, wasn't the Revolutionary War fought from inside homes - hmm, maybe not.

Fyi - male citizens were required to own firearms to fight against the British. I'm sure the intent was that they never be taken outside the home???

39 posted on 02/19/2014 5:21:24 AM PST by jda ("Righteousness exalts a nation . . .")
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To: Joe Boucher
I've read and read and read the 2nd Amendment.

I've cleaned my glasses thoroughly and read and read and read the 2nd Amenment.

For verification, I've asked others to read and read and read the 2nd Amendment.

To be fair, we'll keep looking, but so far none of us has been able find mention of 'permit' anywhere therein.

Imagine that !

40 posted on 02/19/2014 5:37:33 AM PST by tomkat (keeps checking in, hoping to see that ONE headline . . .)
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To: willywill; Secret Agent Man; Travis McGee
You said: I don’t think it’s all that bad. let’s say they rule only in the home, not good, but, arms can still be stockpiled for use against tyrants, the only thing that really matters.

You've got to be kidding me! NO, stockpiling arms in our homes is NOT the only thing that matters! So you want us to effectively be prisoners in our homes? When the government finishes disbanding the constitution and goes completely lawless, and turns against us, we can cower in our homes but not walk outside to work, grocery store, or the doctor's office, or even to effectively defend ourselves against lawless government troops coming to take us to prison because we are too conservative, too white, are Christians, etc, all because we can't defend ourselves? That is EXACTLY what the 2nd amendment was written for!

How DARE you say it is okay to put such a limitation on our 2nd amendment rights. YOU know NOTHING about our constitution and natural law!!

Go on back to DU and spout your liberal lies there, or better yet, learn American History and meditate on it until you see the light

I think we could use some of Travis McGee's great 2nd amendment images on this thread.

41 posted on 02/19/2014 5:50:11 AM PST by boxlunch (Psalm 2)
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To: neverdem
I think the danger of this, even if they rule the right way, is that it is saying it is the word of the Supreme Court that allows us to continue carrying, as long as they see fit. So on another day if they rule against it, it is their right. In other words, they are saying they have the power to give or take away this right. And that is wrong.

All Americans should have 1) ignored ANY infringement of their rights, and 2) should have worked ceaselessly to impeach and disbar or some other censure against any lawmakers or judges who ever wrote any law to the contrary.

42 posted on 02/19/2014 5:54:19 AM PST by boxlunch (Psalm 2)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Stick to your guns–no matter what!

by Matt Bracken

If they come to take away your guns by force, they have declared war on the Constitution, and on you. At that point, war is joined, just as it was during another famous gun confiscation raid on April 19, 1775.

If a firearm was legal in 2012, under the 2nd Amendment it’s still legal in 2013 and it will be legal forever, no matter what so-called “executive orders” are handed down or new “laws” are passed by a panicking Congress. Those who say otherwise are liars and traitors and oath breakers and domestic enemies.

Every survivor of every genocide says the same thing: when they come to take your guns, shoot them! Make them take them, and their system of repression will be overwhelmed, because they don’t have millions of jack-booted thugs ready to do armed battles all over the country.

If you give up your arms, you are placing your entire trust in the permanent future benevolence of the U.S. government. This trust is invariably fatal: ask the American Indians about those treaties that were guaranteed forever.

History is clear, with numerous examples, of the danger of gun registration and gun control. The German gun registration laws were enacted duuring the 1920s Weimar Republic, years before Hitler came to power. German gun registration was mandated in the name of “public safety.” Note that phrase well. I’m sure today’s liberal utopians would agree that they were “common sense” and “reasonable” gun control laws. Don’t we all want “public safety?”

Then Hitler rose to power, and used the gun registration lists to first disarm the Jews, and then to force them into starving, overcrowded ghettos, and finally into mass graves and gas chambers. The Nazi genocide of the Jews was enabled by those “common sense” German gun registration lists.

Millions of Polish Jews were rounded up by German military police battallions. The German military police only needed a 1-10 ratio to their victims. A mere 100 German military police, (4-Fs in their forties, bottom of the barrel conscripts, not rabid SS), would round up and murder a town of a thousand Jews over the course of one day.

The Germans would force them to sit tightly packed together on town plazas or sporting fields under the watch of only a handful of armed guards. The Germans would then march groups of twenty or thirty at a time at gunpoint into the woods for point-blank executions. A 1-10 ratio means the military police were not worried at all about meeting resistance. The victims were all previously disarmed.

During the Armenian Genocide from 1915-23, two million Christian Turks were exterminated by being marched at gun point into burning deserts with no food or water. The Turkish gun registration laws were enacted in 1911, in the name of “public safety.” The genocide began a few years later, after the Armenians’ firearms were confiscated.

Entire divisions of Russian troops hiked home from WW1 in 1917/18, carrying their rifles and swords and other sidearms. Very early on, Lenin decreed that “public safety” required they all be turned in, under penalty of death. And so the Russian war veterans were disarmed—but not the Communist Party members. Then came the Soviet purges, the Great Terror, the Gulags, and tens of millions of disarmed Russians were murdered.

I’m sorry, but I do NOT trust that our federal government won’t turn as brutally tyrannical as the old USSR at some point in the future, perhaps after an economic crash or other major crisis. The Obama regime already perceives that we “Bitter Clingers” are “reactionaries” who are not only standing in the way of social progress, we are actively blocking it.

That makes us pure Evil, since their plan for a socialist utopia is pure Good. And that means they will ultimately come to feel totally justified in seeking a “final solution to the Bitter Clinger problem,” in the same way that the Turks, Soviets and Nazis did. Can anyone guarantee Americans that tyranny will never visit our shores?

If the socialists in power are scapegoating us as national villains now, what will they do when they have no reason to fear us whatsoever? Did the Turks, Soviets or Nazis treat their despised minorities better, or worse, after disarming them? Think!

And once a despot’s enemies (that’s us) are disarmed and helpless…the temptation grows to simply do away with them. Obama mentor and ghost-autobiographer, the Weather Underground bomber Bill Ayers, stated that they would need to murder ten percent of the American population to achieve their socialist nirvana. Thirty million bitter clingers. Guess who that is?

Don’t relearn this bitter lesson the hard way. Learn from history’s many examples. As it was for the Turkish Armenians, German Jews, Russian Kulaks, Chinese, Ugandans, Guatemalens, Cambodians, Cubans, Rwandans, and on and on, history’s lesson is crystal clear:

Stick to your guns–no matter what!

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur — what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!”

~~Alexander Solzhenitsyn


43 posted on 02/19/2014 5:58:42 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Secret Agent Man

44 posted on 02/19/2014 5:59:52 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: willywill

45 posted on 02/19/2014 6:02:33 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: ThunderSleeps

“. I don’t know by what idiocy anyone would think “...keep and bear arms...” in any way was restricted to just the domicile.”

Or to personal protection for that matter. The right to
bear arms is there to keep the government in check. It’s
our personal right as an individual sovereign citizen that
gives us the right to protect our selves and our neighbors
rights, life and property. It’s our civic duty.


46 posted on 02/19/2014 6:11:53 AM PST by Slambat
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To: neverdem

Alan Gottlieb was talking with the guys on the Armed American Radio show about this last Sunday.
He said that there are three circuit rulings against the second amendment, and two rulings in support of it. Which almost forces the SCOTUS to hear the Drake case in New Jersey.
If they do, and rule for freedom, it will be a huge setback against gun haters.


47 posted on 02/19/2014 6:30:39 AM PST by RandallFlagg ("I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." --Quigley)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Yesterday a McDonald’s was robbed in Houston. You can see the thugs push a woman to the floor and her little child run to her arms. One employee was shot in the stomach because he was backing up fast enough. It’s too bad there wasn’t a few customers in there with CCW permits.


48 posted on 02/19/2014 7:26:46 AM PST by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Thats all I need to know.


49 posted on 02/19/2014 7:38:55 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: RC one
"deny the fundamental civil right to homeless people, renters, and travelers."

Actually, I think this is a brilliant point. The libs are always caterwauling about the rights of the homeless. They have a right to health care, shelter, and the right to vote. Since they don't have a home, how can they be denied the right to self defense that home owners have?

50 posted on 02/19/2014 8:13:11 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
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