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How Ukraine Can Be Saved
New York Times Opinion ^ | Feburary 20, 2014 | ROMANO PRODI

Posted on 02/20/2014 4:13:01 PM PST by Navy Patriot

Ukraine is in the middle of a violent political crisis. Dozens of people died this week and hundreds more were injured as protesters fought police in the capital, Kiev. Lethal violence has been spreading to the rest of the country, and a truce announced early Thursday fell apart as the death toll kept growing.

What began in November as a series of peaceful protests in favor of closer ties with the European Union and greater autonomy from the influence of Russia has escalated into a conflagration.

To save Ukraine, the government and opposition alike must make the difficult but necessary choice to compromise and reconcile. European leaders should immediately schedule direct talks with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and his top officials to find a temporary solution to stop the bloodshed and a longer-term plan that would allow Ukrainians to determine their political destiny in a peaceful and democratic fashion.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Russia
KEYWORDS: italy
Interesting, from Italian Prime Minister Prodi (96-98)
1 posted on 02/20/2014 4:13:01 PM PST by Navy Patriot
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To: Navy Patriot
To save Ukraine, the government and opposition alike must make the difficult but necessary choice to compromise and reconcile.

Prodi obviously knows nothing about Eastern European history and politics.

2 posted on 02/20/2014 4:14:14 PM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: cunning_fish

Ping


3 posted on 02/20/2014 4:15:47 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

They probably need to divide the country in half: Eastern Ukraine (EU) and Russian Ukraine (RU)...


4 posted on 02/20/2014 4:17:13 PM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: null and void

Make that European Ukraine...


5 posted on 02/20/2014 4:18:51 PM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: Navy Patriot

Zero, u paying attention? We have guns, they don’t.


6 posted on 02/20/2014 4:20:44 PM PST by DownInFlames
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To: Navy Patriot
European leaders should immediately schedule direct talks with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and his top officials to find a temporary solution to stop the bloodshed and a longer-term plan that would allow...

Yeah, cuz that's working so well in Syria, and Iraq, and so on.
7 posted on 02/20/2014 4:26:14 PM PST by keat
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To: Navy Patriot

Obama can give another speech. That will take care of the problem over there, just like it did in Libya, Egypt, Iran, Syria, etc


8 posted on 02/20/2014 4:27:00 PM PST by tips up (Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.)
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To: null and void
They probably need to divide the country in half: Eastern Ukraine (EU) and Russian Ukraine (RU).

Territory wise, about the Western 20% would do it, then everybody could start up again. At least it would give Yugoslavia company.

9 posted on 02/20/2014 4:29:19 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot
European leaders should immediately schedule direct talks with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia and his top officials to find a temporary solution to stop the bloodshed

Miraculously, Merkel and Putin have arrived to that conclusion already. Weird - they aren't supposed to do such things on their own, not before a widely known in narrow circles Italian politician gives them the order :-)

I wonder if there will be Secret Protocols signed this time around - or the division of Ukraine is to remain just a verbal agreement?

10 posted on 02/20/2014 4:30:12 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Navy Patriot
Territory wise, about the Western 20% would do it,

Most of that was part of Poland before the war. The Soviets kicked out the Poles after the war.

11 posted on 02/20/2014 4:31:28 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Greysard
Picturing Merkel and Putin standing before a map together holding a Sharpie: “We'll draw the line here....”
12 posted on 02/20/2014 4:38:58 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: dfwgator
The Soviets kicked out the Poles after the war.

The ones that hadn't already been exterminated by the Ukrainian Nazis...

13 posted on 02/20/2014 4:42:30 PM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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14 posted on 02/20/2014 4:44:57 PM PST by RedMDer
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To: Navy Patriot

Isn’t it that much symbolic to make Russia and Germany drawing lines there again?
In my humble opinion people of that land has to settle it for themselves.
I don’t care if they are going to kill each other in process. They have to take responsibility for themselves, not to split and hide behind either Germany and Russia who indended to bring ready solutions. It is nothing but a way to lay another time bomb and blame the others for the outcome later.

I honestly believe that Ukraine as a nation-state is a fluke of history. It doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to step in and fix it, because killing deformed babies is not a norm in modern society.


15 posted on 02/20/2014 4:58:48 PM PST by cunning_fish
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To: Navy Patriot

The answer is free trade for Ukraine. They should be the Singapore or Swiss style middleman between Europe and Russia and become fabulously wealthy. Europe and Russia both have raped and mass murdered their way through Ukraine in living memory.
They both need to pay the price.

And of course, there should be no change in the military position. NATO basing in Ukraine is unwelcome and not needed anyway. That’d blow any chance for a decent outcome.
And are we really, actually, ever considering a land war over there ?


16 posted on 02/20/2014 5:05:40 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino
The answer is free trade for Ukraine. They should be the Singapore or Swiss style middleman between Europe and Russia and become fabulously wealthy.

Best proposal yet.

17 posted on 02/20/2014 5:15:36 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: cunning_fish
I honestly believe that Ukraine as a nation-state is a fluke of history.

Several FReepers have pointed out that present day Ukraine is a forced construction of tribes rather than a nation.

18 posted on 02/20/2014 5:22:45 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: dfwgator

You oughta give credit to our beloved FDR and Churchill for agreeing to Stalin’s redrawn map at Yalta.


19 posted on 02/20/2014 5:26:23 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: cunning_fish
In my humble opinion people of that land has to settle it for themselves.

Yep. We are still living the consequences of Lincoln freeing the slaves.

Although it was a noble thing to do, we would be far better off if they had freed themselves. (Well, the survivors would be anyway)

Deep in the psyche of the former slaves and their descendants there can't help but be a hint of insecurity: "Our freedom was given to us by the stroke of a pen, it could be taken away just as easily." I've got a pen and I've got a phone...

20 posted on 02/20/2014 5:31:40 PM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: Revolting cat!

>>>You oughta give credit to our beloved FDR and Churchill for agreeing to Stalin’s redrawn map at Yalta<<<

To be honest they both had little to none leverage considering Eastern Europe at the time.


21 posted on 02/20/2014 5:32:10 PM PST by cunning_fish
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To: DesertRhino
And are we really, actually, ever considering a land war over there ?

Does it fit any of the obama criteria?

EVERYTHING obama does either:

a) Weakens America
b) Distances America's allies
c) Strengthens America's enemies
d) Serves Islam
e) Harms Israel
Or some combination of the above.
I have yet to have anyone raise a single substantive counter example in several years of posting this.

(Although AJFavish did point out that I missed "increases dependency on the government")

22 posted on 02/20/2014 5:34:02 PM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: cunning_fish

To be honest the US was arming the Soviets against the Germans.


23 posted on 02/20/2014 5:35:49 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: null and void

Biden has lots of foreign policy experience.


24 posted on 02/20/2014 5:38:37 PM PST by taterjay
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To: Revolting cat!

>>To be honest the US was arming the Soviets against the Germans<<

Yes, and keeping them fighting Germans and later the Japanese made higher on list of priorities than all the Eastern Europe combined.


25 posted on 02/20/2014 5:38:49 PM PST by cunning_fish
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To: Navy Patriot
"But the West must make clear to Moscow that Ukraine — a bridge between East and West — should not be the object of geopolitical games."

This is exactly what Mr. Prodi suggests.

The West would do well to look the other way. There is certainly no US interest involved.

26 posted on 02/20/2014 6:56:24 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: dfwgator
"The Soviets kicked out the Poles after the war. "

I believe the Nazi's and their Ukrainian collaborators killed most of them in 1941.

27 posted on 02/20/2014 7:01:03 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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