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How Much Money Did Ukraine Lose When It Nixed The EU Deal? [ has link trade deal ]
International Business Times ^ | 2/19/2014 | David Kashi

Posted on 02/20/2014 7:19:25 PM PST by PieterCasparzen

The all-out street war in Ukraine’s capital city of Kiev between anti-government protesters and security forces had its beginnings in late November, when President Viktor Yanukovych rejected a bid for closer integration of his country with the European Union.

Protests began peacefully, but reports that security services used excessive force on demonstrators escalated the situation. As of Wednesday, dozens of people have been killed, including protesters and police officers, and hundreds injured.

For years Yanukovych promised Ukrainians that he would sign an agreement with the EU, which would benefit Ukraine’s economy substantially. Protesters felt betrayed that he suddenly and without explanation shifted his position. All fingers pointed to Russia as the main mover behind the decision; it was Moscow that pressured Yanukovych not to sign the agreement, said Samuel Charap, a senior fellow for Russia and Eurasia at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at ibtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: eu; gasputin; nwo; rentamob; soros; ukraine; ussr; votecommie; wto
There a link to a pdf of the deal in this article.

Looks like a very big deal, IMHO, kind of NAFTA on steriods.

For your perusal...

1 posted on 02/20/2014 7:19:25 PM PST by PieterCasparzen
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To: PieterCasparzen

You can see why the communists (and the Russian revanchists) didn’t like it.


2 posted on 02/20/2014 7:22:17 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: PieterCasparzen

Independence would have been tougher but wiser. They have good reasons for not wanting Russian interference but the EU is already staggering under the weight of failing economies.


3 posted on 02/20/2014 7:30:55 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: PieterCasparzen
The link is at the highlighted text in this paragraph:

"*An eventual free trade agreement between Ukraine and the EU would save the country $670 million annually because of reduced EU import taxes. Ukraine would lose around $538 million in import duties coming from the EU."

The title page says:

EU-Ukraine Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Area

Wikipedia article on EU-Ukraine trade relations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93European_Union_relations
4 posted on 02/20/2014 7:32:54 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
For years Yanukovych promised Ukrainians that he would sign an agreement with the EU, which would benefit Ukraine’s economy substantially. Protesters felt betrayed that he suddenly and without explanation shifted his position. …
Oh come on. Yanukovych has always been the Kremlin’s man; they knew that going back to the so-called Orange Revolution nine years ago.

Putin was never going to surrender the country that is essentially imperial Russia’s breadbasket (whether the Russian Empire, the USSR or the Eurasian Union).
5 posted on 02/20/2014 7:33:05 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: PieterCasparzen

If the West really wants to help out economically, would you explain why the EU/IMF is unwilling to negotiate a separate trade agreement with Ukraine in addition to the one they have with Russia?


6 posted on 02/20/2014 7:38:26 PM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: cripplecreek

How many protesters do you think have read...

and fully understand the implications...

of the trade deal ?


7 posted on 02/20/2014 7:38:48 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

“free trade agreement between Ukraine and the EU would save the country $670 million annually because of reduced EU import taxes. Ukraine would lose around $538 million in import duties coming from the EU.”

Why doesn’t the EU unilaterally end all import taxes from Ukraine and pay Ukrainian import taxes normally? NO agreement needed, lots of reasons for Ukraine to send products to Europe, and EU (IE,,,Frankfurt) gets to make amends for it’s rape of Ukraine era. And it would be wonderful for Ukraine. Russia would be forced to offer similar terms of lose out.

But of course, that would be awesome for Ukraine, and the EU really isn’t interested in THAT in reality.


8 posted on 02/20/2014 7:47:15 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Probably not many. People these days are mostly herd animals who react without thought. If I were betting on it, I would say that they will end up going with the EU in the end because people on the street can be hard to overcome in the long run.

At the end of the day it really doesn’t matter because they will have to work it out on their own because there is nothing we can do about the mess there.


9 posted on 02/20/2014 7:49:36 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Olog-hai

And it isn’t mentioned much, but Russia is extremely going to be pissed at the idea of NATO moving forward to within about 200 miles of Moscow and Volgograd (Stalingrad),, and for NATO to take over the Crimean naval bases.

And NATO doesn’t have sense enough not to do it. The historic fear, of Russia is that Europe always has designs to attack them. And after the cold war, NATO has become aggressively expansive, just as they always claimed to fear. Its really kind of nuts.

One of the epic failures of diplomacy i’ve ever heard of was the way the west handled the end of the USSR.


10 posted on 02/20/2014 7:54:35 PM PST by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Let's flip that coin:

How many protesters do you think understand... and fully understand the implications... of moving closer to Russia?

11 posted on 02/20/2014 7:56:28 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: cripplecreek

........we should start worrying about how many of us are going to be dead from our federal snipers when the “millions” of Americans hit the street after the banks lock their doors, grocery stores have no food, there is no drinking water and a few other little inconveniences I could cite but won’t are thrown in on top.

Peter Schiff is predicting “the bottom falls out” (his words) BEFORE the next election on Obama’s watch.


12 posted on 02/20/2014 8:00:42 PM PST by Cen-Tejas (it's the debt bomb stupid!)
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To: mac_truck

They are - this article has a link to an overview of the deal.

I’ve had someone ranting at me telling me the protest was about “freedom”, getting rid of the oppressive President they have, who’s too close to Putin.

It’s reported by the BBC that the protests started when he refused to sign the EU trade deal.

How many on FR support NAFTA ?

How many on FR want more jobs in America, stop exporting jobs to China ?

How many want lower food prices in the US ? But our food commodities are being pushed up by extremely strong foreign demand for our food commodities under our trade agreements.

I read this overview of the trade agreement, the whole PDF.

Ukraine has get rid of duties and controls, for the most part. Ukraine will submit to EU control when it comes to disputes, and following through on everything it promises, and potentially be sanctioned if the EU is not happy with Ukraine’s responses to their demands.

In other words, take this: “The parties agree to remedy or remove distortions caused by subsidies where these affect trade, and to subject these commitments to the dispute settlement mechanism.” That means no subsidies - at the disgression of the EU - internally from the Ukraine government to Ukraine businesses and farms. If the EU is not happy, they can impose sanctions.

Just look at how the EU is handling Greece, Portugal, etc. It’s not the panacea it’s all cracked up to be for the less productive countries.

The EU nations give up much of their sovereignty - just like any nation does - when they enter into these globalist-conceived trade agreements.


13 posted on 02/20/2014 8:01:14 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
The energy section is most revealing:

Chapter 11 Trade-related energy

This is the first FTA to include specific provisions on trade related energy issues. The chapter takes into account that Ukraine is already a member of the Energy Community Treaty (EnCT), which imposes an obligation to implement the most relevant EU energy acquisition electricity and gas. The chapter covers electricity, crude oil and natural gas (in gaseous state or as LNG), its provisions being subject to dispute settlement procedure.

The four pillars of the trade-related energy chapter are:

Rules on pricing of energy goods. The Parties commit themselves to let market prices prevail on the domestic gas and electricity markets and not to regulate prices for industry.

Neither Party will impose prices for exporting energy products which are higher than domestic prices (prohibition of dual pricing).

Transport and transit of energy goods. The chapter reiterates obligations laid down in Article V GATT and Article 7 of the Energy Charter Treaty. Interrupting transit or taking energy goods from transit that are destined for the other party is prohibited. An Expedited (fast track) Dispute Settlement procedure will allow for quick intervention if these rules are breached. An Early Warning Mechanism lays down standards for diplomatic consultations in the event of a security of supply problem.

Parties commit themselves to setting up a legally distinct and functionally independent regulator to ensure competition and an efficient functioning of the gas and electricity markets.

Rules on non-discriminatory access to the exploration and production of hydrocarbons (gas and oil). Once an area has been made available for exploration and production, non discriminatory access and licensing should be provided to entities from both Parties

Cheap and easy energy for the EU

14 posted on 02/20/2014 8:04:58 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: DesertRhino
And it isn’t mentioned much, but Russia is extremely going to be pissed at the idea of NATO moving forward to within about 200 miles of Moscow and Volgograd (Stalingrad),, and for NATO to take over the Crimean naval bases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations
15 posted on 02/20/2014 8:07:48 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: DesertRhino
One of the epic failures of diplomacy i’ve ever heard of was the way the west handled the end of the USSR

Sadly, correct.

16 posted on 02/20/2014 8:08:47 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Duuuuude ! It’s about freedom for the people !

/sorry I had to sarc that /haha


17 posted on 02/20/2014 8:08:49 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: TexasRepublic; Cementjungle; nascarnation; Count of Monte Fisto; rcrngroup

ping.


18 posted on 02/20/2014 8:12:37 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Under NAFTA California is paying chemical manufacturers in Canada for a gasoline additive known as MTBE.

However, the manufacturers don't have to make or deliver it, because it is a poison, pollutant, and carcinogen, and has been outlawed for use in California.

Unfortunately, California signed the purchase contracts under NAFTA law, before the stuff was outlawed, and cannot cancel the contracts. NAFTA courts said tough luck suckers, pay up, and we do.The Ukrainians would be easy pickins for the EU.

19 posted on 02/20/2014 8:22:43 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Olog-hai

It doesn’t matter what the people think or want.

It all about bribing (with energy supplies but more importantly cash) a few corrupt leaders at the top.


20 posted on 02/20/2014 8:23:07 PM PST by 4Liberty (Optimal institutions - optimal economy.)
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To: 4Liberty

Quite so. What’s commonly called “crony capitalism” ought to be properly termed “crony corporatism”.


21 posted on 02/20/2014 8:56:28 PM PST by Olog-hai
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To: PieterCasparzen
They are - this article has a link to an overview of the deal.

Sorry Pieter, but I have trouble believing the EU has moved 180 degrees from their fixed position of just a few months ago in which they demanded Ukraine release opposition leader (and convicted embezzler) Yulia Tymashenko from prison as a pre-condition to any trade deal.

Clearly the EU/IMF offer was designed to facilitate regime change in Kiev, and when the Russians outbid them it was time to ramp up the street protests and western media & political demagoguery.

22 posted on 02/21/2014 7:25:16 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck
I don't know about any EU "demands".

I had never looked into Ukraine much until now. I had seen that Yulia's picture in the news; seemed like a pretty face, seemed to be ardently in support of Ukraine being independent of Russia from my little bit of reading. I thought, hey, cool. An independent Ukraine, that would be cool.

Wasn't until now that I did a little reading. The other thread I started recently on the current political leaders in opposition in Ukraine listed her - and then I find out she and her party are actually advocating joining the EU.

Seems like even the "hard right" (most news sources say they're nazis, etc.) are wanting to join the EU, sort of, with some kind of nationalist "reservations".

I know in America there are Democrat and Repub party platforms... but they are generated by the party leadership, and don't reflect necessarily what most Americans want, just what will "fly" politically.
23 posted on 02/21/2014 9:17:48 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
I don't know about any EU "demands"

Just for fun try typing the terms "EU" and "Ultimatum" into your favorite search engine and see what comes up. You might be surprised just how demanding European socialists really are toward anyone and everything.

No wonder the fastest growing political parties inside Europe are the ones opposed to the EU.

24 posted on 02/21/2014 9:57:48 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck

That should be a topic that is followed, with threads posted from time to time.

All under “globalism”.

I know we follow it, but I have not seen so much lately, specifically on globalism steady march forward, with what else is going on.

Well, of course aside from 2A.

IMHO.

Of course, 2A is a KEY part of plan we know.

After no more guns, US can be merged with others.

I assume many FReepers, and quite a few Americans in general, really “get” this.

But seeing such shall we say misguided, misinformed, support of EU - PieterCasparzen wonders... Do they really see the tactics that are slowly defeating them ?


25 posted on 02/21/2014 12:05:54 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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