Skip to comments.The Lesson of Dunkirk (Thomas Sowell's retreat strategy)
Posted on 02/20/2014 8:34:50 PM PST by P-Marlowe
There would not be a United States of America today if George Washington had followed the tactics being urged by people like Senator Ted Cruz and his supporters.
(Excerpt) Read more at creators.com ...
Advocating a strategy of retreat in the face of tyranny.
There would not be an England today had Winston Churchill surrendered to the Germans, Mr. Sowell. How about laying off Senator Cruz?
This is so weird.
I had long believed I could never disagree with Sowell on anything, to say noting of a matter of supreme importance.
Is Sowell’s audit finally getting to him?
What is Sowell smoking? Whatever it is I don’t want any.
When the rubber meets the road Sowell’s true colors come through.
The analogies he has used in the last three days are so off the mark, I have to assume that Sowell has never really studied history or politics.
Trenton was a huge SYMBOLIC victory. It was also George Washington’s Hail Mary pass. It was a must win battle. He had to win it or the war was over. Not because we couldn’t have won without it, but the nation was ready to give up and Washington needed a SYMBOLIC victory to give the nation hope.
Sowell seems to think that any battle that we can’t win is not worth fighting.
We lost Bunker Hill but even though the battle was lost, the fact that we fought it was enough to give America a spiritual victory and a hope that we could ultimately prevail.
Sowell has no concept of the importance of a symbolic victory and seems to think that every battle that we can’t win outright is a battle we should avoid.
Somebody stole Thomas Sowell’s brain.
This really sucks to see two men I greatly admire at loggerheads.
Ann Coulter is praising this idiot. We should reject these RINOs out of hand.
“In a war, you do not fight battles that you are certain to lose...”
I guess he never read nor saw the accounts of the 101 Airborne, Screaming Eagles, for one, who marched into the Bastogne forest, completely surrounded by enemy in the dead of winter with no coats, gloves, ammo, food nor fire, not even a decent company commander, to emerge after one month in the snow, everyone but a few having been dinged or wounded or killed, victorious due to a morale and character of knowing they were on the right side, their mothers would be proud and they were in a state of grace fighting a godless entity.
Sure to lose, bull.
I don’t care if he was a marine, I’d like to know if he joined the band and bowed out or something.
I am a combat veteran and I come from a long line of the same and a big group of fighting obnoxious Irish.
Ted Cruz can get in there and fight for our constitutional rights, as he has done successfully before the supreme court nine times.
Thomas Sowell can’t come close to that.
Ted Cruz is it
And the formerly well respected, in this house, Thomas Sowell can, in the words of that lovely fireman from Long Beach, kiss my Royal Irish A
Well, there is a France. I’m not excited with Cruz. I’d vote for him but just as a better choice. This is the time when those that are leaning toward running will be treated as such so I think Cruz is either ready for it or in trouble.
To quote Gen McCauliffe:
Turn the light out the cockroaches come out..
Like Rove some nasty critters..
Cruz has never attacked Sowell.
Now, I could’ve said it that way and got my point across.
The brevity of men should not be underestimated.
There is a France, yes, but it had to be liberated after that country also failed to stay strong between the wars in the face of a new evil. I admire Sowell a lot but there’s at least as much history working against his analogy as there is for it in this particular case.
I am, for now, an unabashed Cruz man. Your statement made it seem like you have another preference. Not a flame, but I am curious as to whom it would be?
“There would not be a United States of America today if George Washington had followed the tactics being urged by people like Senator Ted Cruz and his supporters.”
You’ve got that backwards, Sowell.
Some people got their toes stepped on and they are not happy about the leadership being taken. Their plan was to give the democrats enough rope to hang themselves.
Our objection is that the trillions of dollars of damage that is being done to this country are irretrievable. We want it stopped here and now.
I agree that a swift kick in the pants of the republican leadership was needed to let them know we did not like their plan. I do not agree that every republican that does not agree with us must be destroyed. The marxists are our enemy and that is who we should concentrate on. If a few "rinos" don't change directions quick enough and get run over, well, tough luck.
There are some who immediately want to attack the rinos at every opportunity. I half suspect they are trolls trying to stampede us into attacking those who agree with us eighty percent of the time instead of attacking those who disagree with us all the time.
The fact that Sowell seems to overlook is that the Colonists started a war that they had no conceivable chance to win. But is was for THE GLORIOUS CAUSE that they took on the most powerful military in the history of the world and beat it.
There were dozens of times that the Congress had considered suing King George for peace and giving up, but Washington’s tenacity in the face of certain defeat led to a miraculous and hard fought victory over tyranny.
Sowell and the GOP simply don’t have the stomach for a fight. That is the bottom line. So they are attacking the General who could lead us to victory.
Ok. so Thomas Sowell really should be careful with his prestige advising senators on military tactics.
Sowell was drafted in 1951, during the Korean War, and was assigned to the United States Marine Corps. Because of his experience in photography, he became a Marine Corps photographer; he also trained Marines in .45-caliber pistol proficiency.
He hasn't attacked him....he's telling him to hold his fire.
If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.Right now the GOPe is going for the Geogre McClelland award for avoiding combat at all costs.
Mike Pence, maybe Mitch. Let’s try a Hoosier! I’ve had my fill of Texans thanks to GW and that post about the 15 yr old girl that Texans appear to think OK to shoot..
Thomas Sowell has gone off his rocker.
There would not be a United States today if George Washington had listened to people like McConnell and Boehner who would urge caution and being nice to the English. We can’t upset the King! We have to be reasonable and moderate. We can’t just go to war because of a little disagreement.
The current leaders of the Republican Party in no way resemble George Washington. They're much closer in spirit and temperament to this guy.
“We don’t intend to turn the Republican Party over to the traitors in the battle just ended. We will have no more of those candidates who are pledged to the same goals as our opposition and who seek our support. Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldnt make any sense at all.” — President Ronald Reagan
Sometimes you need to retreat, sometimes you need to attack.
Sowell and Cruz are on the same side but are in disagreement with tactics. When Cruz filibustered and caused a temporary shutdown of the government he knew he would lose. In the short term the Republicans lost. However, the roll out of Obamacare has been a disaster for the Democrats and has proven Cruz 100% right. In the long term view Cruz hurt the Democrats and not the Republicans.
I ask this one question, “Is the media talking about the Cruz filibuster or the disaster of the Obama care roll-out?”
The real irony is if the Democrats had done as Cruz wanted and delayed the imposition of Obamacare we would not be talking about Obamacare.
Mr. Sowell and Senator Cruz need to sit down together in private and discuss tactics. I have immense respect for both of them. They need to work together.
” - - - -
1.) * Whatever the Republicans threatened, President Obama could call their bluff.
2.) * They would either have to back down or have a second government shutdown for which they would be blamed.
3.) *Another shutdown could doom their chances of winning the Senate in the 2014 elections, and perhaps even cost them the House of Representatives.- - - “
The above 3 sentences quoted from Sowell’s article demonstrate the following:
* how easy it has been for Obama and Reid to refuse to work with the Republicans;
* Obama and Reid to shut down part of the Federal Government;
* Obama and Reid to blame their shutdown on the Republicans;
* for Obama and Reid to have full confidence that the Left Stream Media would falsely claim that Reid and Obama did not shutdown the Government;
* Sowell is fearful of bluffs, fighting to damage the enemy, and paranoid about what, “could, would or perhaps” happen;
* Sowell approves of being blamed for something that he or the RINOs didn’t do;
* and that Sowell himself still believes that Obama and Reid did not shutdown the Federal Government, Barrycade our War Monuments, or stop funeral payments to the families of The Commander in Chief’s own Military dead.
FREEPERS: Would anyone with a Military background choose to have Thomas Sowell in y’alls Foxhole when an attack comes from the enemy?
Professor Sowell is well suited to be a card-carrying Obsolete RINO Intellectual for the following Sowell Rules of Battle:
* Always retreat when given the rare opportunity to inflict major harmful attrition on an enemy;
* Never defend any Principles that involve the defense of the US Constitution;
* Always put Political Party above Country;
* Never challenge a bluff in a battle;
* Never attempt to refute any lie that the enemy promotes against you;
* Always assume that the only way possible for a victory is to have control of the House, Senate and Presidency;
* Never attack the enemy first, always stay on friendly defense.
* Wait for the exact moment when it is obvious to the Left Stream Media, and even the most timid RINO that winning is a certainty.,vacations and weather permitting.
Sowell’s analogy to Dunkirk leaves out - - - “the rest of the story.”
England had a Warrior in Churchhill who could motivate men to follow him into the Gates of Hell.
Churchhill spoke often about fighting in the fields, and never, Ever, EVER, GIVE UP!
Okay Sowell: Who is the Churchill Warrior among the Obsolete RINO troops that believe what you write?
———————————————————— . Thought so!
Sowell mentioned that the English citizens risked their lives to rescue the Remnants of the British Army stranded at Dunkirk.
Okay Sowell: We, the internet FREEPERS, risk our lives every we describe on the internet the REALITY of the current Communist takeover of our Republic.
Yes, RISK! We FReepers KNOW that every word we type is recorded by the NSA, distributed to Holder’s FBI, the IRS, the TSA, Pentagon, the ATF, the Data files of the Democrat Party, certain Foreign Governments, and the CIA.
You, Thomas Sowell, need not fear the “knock on the door’ by the various armed forces of Communist Obamanation.
You need not fear because you have chosen to play by the rules imposed on you by the enemy. You and the RINOs are equivalent to the Vinchy French when France fell to Hitler.
Would you, Thomas Sowell have even bothered to get out of bed when Paul Revere rode by shouting “The British are coming!” ?
My guess is that you would have said “The British are the mightiest Military force in the World. This a fight that we can’t win. We are doomed to lose everything.”
The battle we fight to save our Republic from the Jackboot heel of Communism has proven to be of no concern to the RINO Wing of the Republican Party.
The RINOs, including yourself, foolishly assume that there will be a future election held that will reward the cowardly RINOs by voting them back in. We did that in 2012 and now the RINOs are fighting us. Fine! BRING IT!
Why should we vote in cowardly RINOs who will not fight Communism?
The RINOs had 5 YEARS to plan an effect attack, and failed.
Now it is our turn, and we will fight you and elected RINOs FIRST, as y’all have proven to be traitors in the Battle against Communist Obamanation.
Our votes will come from Americans who in one Minute have gotten out of bed, grabbed clothes, ammunition and muskets, and then assembled on The Village Green as America shifts up into second gear Cruz Control for November, 2014.
DONT TREAD ON ME
Yes, remember that was the group that Patrick Henry gave his great speech rebuking!
Cruz did not cause the government shut down.
Sowell needs to understand that McConnell and Bonehead are not on the same side as we are.
Sowell and Coulter and others when they write about taxes, regulations, Obamacare and many other things make all the sense in the world.
Then when voting starts they support those who won’t lift a finger to fix the problems.
I think Sowell (whom I’ve adored forever, until now) has contracted Colin Powell Syndrome. His brethren plantation might be threatened, and he goes nativist against his own brain.
This has been devastating to behold, for me.
Three hit pieces in three days. Somehow I don't think Sowell is on Cruz's side.
Mr. Sowell and Senator Cruz need to sit down together in private and discuss tactics.
I think the time to sit down together is past. Sowell should have discussed this with Cruz before going on the attack. Sowell's attacks have been unrelenting. I expect to see more tomorrow.
I respect and accept Thomas Sowell as he is now.
Sometimes it takes a pitched battle to reveal who is, and who is not fighting with you.
He is a worthy adversary that must be cast aside for the good of the Republic.
Sowell equated war and politics, and I for one am more than happy to oblige, separately or together.
Breitbart warned us that this “WAR”, and was he ever correct!
BRING IT !
His historical analogies are so far off base that they are ludicrous. It is as if he never actually studied the subjects to which he is basing his analogies. To compare the retreat at Dunkirk to the caving on the debt ceiling is so ridiculous it defies comment.
And his ludicrous assertion that a Symbolic Victory is not a real victory ignores the entire history of warfare. And to claim that Washington went into Trenton knowing he would win that battle is the epitome of ignorance. That was Washington's Hail Mary pass. Everything had to work perfectly or it would have spelled disaster, but he needed a SYMBOLIC victory or the war was lost. By a miracle of Providence he was able to pull off a military victory. The entire war for independence was riding on pulling off a strategic victory against the British before the end of the year. Had he failed, the war would have been lost.
I have lost a lot of respect for Mr. Sowell in just 3 days. He owes both his fans and Ted Cruz an apology.
But somehow I think we will see the attack on Ted Cruz part IV very soon.
This is the third article in 3 days bashing Ted Cruz and advocating a policy of retreat.
He isn’t ‘wrong’ (in his own mind).. he has just left the conservative brigade because he sees it winning sooner than he calculated, and threatening his calculus of social/racial evolution.
There is no explanation for this.. other than racial.
Unless he’s been telling me a story I’ve been lapping up for a long time....
Put another way, he sees his ox <and cows) about to be gored.
No need to be sad, be glad that the obstacles to victory are showing themselves early.
There is a very high probability that the dominant RINO Desire to Lose will prevail just like it did in 2012.
Thus, this year could very well be the last year the Republicans have a majority in the US House of Representatives.
IOW, we must use this time effectively to Impeach Obama before November, 2014 by initiating Impeachment Proceedings from the House, which, in turn, requires a public resignation by Boehner as Speaker.
Winning in November, 2014 is unlikely considering all of the NSA files on all of us owned by the Democrat Party, if Obama even allows the election to occur.
With Holder leaving, Obama will need another lawless thug to keep the Gestapo-stlyle enforcement of decrees and regulations on pace with their Communist plan to “Fundamentally change the United States of America.”
I would be interested in who you think Holder’s replacement would be, in the off chance that we cannot get Commie Soetoro-Obama Impeached before Holder goes back to his day job at the Chicago Mafia.
Hard to recall the few times republicans have actually tried to make forward progress: Goldwater, Reagan, Gingrich. They were all too brief, because their worst enemies were fellow republicans afraid to fight.
The root problem is that retreat is a tactic, not a strategy. Cruz retreats tactically all the time — but his strategy is attack and move forward.
Obamacare (and even Obama) is a disaster in any measurable sense, but the left will not let it go. As a result it is still the law of the land and they are simply metering out the disaster slowly to get the nation to acclimate to it.
No matter how correct and true your philosophy is, it is doomed without bare-knuckled fighters to move it forward. No matter how bankrupt and false your philosophy is, it will be accepted if you refuse to give up.
Politics isn’t about who is right. It is about who fights for their ideals and convinces voters. Cruz is nearly the only conservative politician who dares to do this. The rest are constantly waiting for a sunnier day, better footing, and a thousand other excuses before they are willing to fight.
Success and victory belong to those who claim it. All a strategy of retreat will ever accomplish is to cede victory to the other side.
Only 17% of the govt was “shutdown” because Obama and Reid made it so. Cruz fighting to delay Obamacare was the reason. Obama has been delaying Obamacare regardless.
I don’t see impeachment happening with this bunch
most excellent post about the importance of symbolic victory!
> “He hasn’t attacked him....he’s telling him to hold his fire.”
Not true. Sowell has issued an uncalled for rant that Cruz is in it only for himself and compared Cruz to Obama, and then gone on to make a ghastly and false comparison with how Hitler came to power. Sowell has lost his mind.
Sowell reminds me of Johann the diesel mechanic on Das Boot who loses his mind after the U-Boat is rocked non-stop by depth charges forcing the Captain to retrieve his pistol to shoot him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDc7Ta2J5bQ (at 1 hour 57 minutes, 1:57:00)
Sowell has chosen sides. No one asked him to, he decided himself; it was unsolicited and it reveals no insight, no clarity, nothing informative, no alternate plan other than to allow McConnell-Boehner to continue the march off the cliff.
Sowell should redeem himself by apologizing to Ted Cruz and follow up his apology with a scathing attack on the likes of McConnell, McCain, Boehner and all the other yellow cowards in a manner as was done by General Savage to Colonel Gately in the classic great film “Twelve O’Clock High”, a film still taught in military academies and the War College as the definitive statement on leadership.
“And Gately, as far as I’m concerned you’re yellow!”
Thomas Sowell is way out of the ballpark if he claims only the Dunkirk retreat as illustrating his take on political strategy. Why didn’t he review the Battle of the Bulge or countless other historical times of fight to the last man. I suspect it is because Sowell has more on his mind than principle which has been so important to the founding of the USA. I do not walk lock step with such thinking.
The commentary on this thread is some of the best I’ve ever seen especially your post #6 and stanne’s post #9, but so many others as well that I am still reading.
It’s reassuring to know so many conservatives have their eyes wide open and are tuned in to the same frequency.