Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Detroit's Bankruptcy Plan Comes Under Heavy Assault
NBC News ^ | 2/21/14 | John W. Schoen

Posted on 02/22/2014 3:00:42 AM PST by Libloather

The road back for Detroit seems to be getting longer.

More than three months after its historic bankruptcy filing, city officials Friday offered up their proposed plan to pay bondholders, pensioners and other creditors holding its $18 billion debt substantially less then they're owed.

"We think the plan is reasonable," emergency manager Kevyn Orr told reporters. "We really don't have time for a lot of acrimony and litigation."

But even before Orr had a chance to formally unveil it, the plan was under heavy attack from investors, unions representing city workers and other creditors.

(Excerpt) Read more at nbcnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: 2014election; 2016election; assault; bankruptcy; detroit; election2014; election2016; kevynorr; michigan; plan; ricksnyder
"Movin' on up..."
1 posted on 02/22/2014 3:00:43 AM PST by Libloather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Libloather

Here’s the thing...the money that they all felt was there twenty and thirty years ago...isn’t there now.

At best....they might get twenty-five to fifty percent of what they perceived. So, they are unhappy. This ‘assault’....simply means that several years and millions will be invested into a court case. That present pot of money....will be eaten up...and dwindle.

In five years...when the case finally clears and a judge stamps it final...the pot will likely be ten percent of the original amount. It’s a sad story....but it’s remarkable...that it’s not completely empty.


2 posted on 02/22/2014 3:08:54 AM PST by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

“Full faith and credit” to the people who lent the city money is apparently a somewhat flexible definition. But that’s OK. The vig will just go up the next time they come to the well.


3 posted on 02/22/2014 3:13:02 AM PST by abb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

Promises rat politicans make that they cant keep


4 posted on 02/22/2014 3:28:34 AM PST by ronnie raygun (zippy the a##clown sez..............................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: pepsionice
Here’s the thing...the money that they all felt was there twenty and thirty years ago...isn’t there now.

Exactly. Everybody acting like 3 year olds won't help a bit. At this point its only what they do going forward that matters.
5 posted on 02/22/2014 3:53:50 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
"Retirees cannot survive these huge cuts to the pensions they earned. The plan is unfair and unacceptable."

We can all snicker at the Detroit crowd, but I am convinced that this is the plight that all Americans are going to face.

Most American's retirement plans are built on sand. The Fed has pumped so much fake money into the system that the whole thing is a sham. We have not had real economic growth for years, only inflation which gives the illusion of growth. Moreover, the markets are massively manipulated, including metals. China is demanding the Fed ease off the printing. Our status as the World's Reserve Currency is hanging on by a thread. We have some real wealth in the nation, but it is massively diluted by the mirage of fiat money that we believe is reality. The stock market is 53% over priced based on 10 year averages.

There may be a time, very, very soon, where millions of Boomers and others demand "something be done."

6 posted on 02/22/2014 3:56:22 AM PST by SkyPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

Low-information ‘rats complaining about socialist utopian schemes that fell apart. Quiet slaves. King Kwame’s in jail but KingHussein will rescue us all for a fee. The FED bankruptcy judge will determine the proper looting. Meet the new King, same as the old King. Cue the death panels.


7 posted on 02/22/2014 4:02:01 AM PST by PGalt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SkyPilot

I believe you are 100% correct. Our money is now backed by nothing other than the word of our government. How does that work for you? Particularly with a pResident who has an inability to tell the truth.


8 posted on 02/22/2014 4:04:19 AM PST by SPOTTEDOWL (Are frontal lobotomies prerequisite for being classified as a liberal?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
"We really don't have time for a lot of acrimony and litigation."

The need for exigency trumps the need for government to keep its promises - even the ones where they eventually end up stealing from investors?

9 posted on 02/22/2014 4:12:27 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb

What good is an upped vig when it becomes near-certain they will renege on that deal too?


10 posted on 02/22/2014 4:13:18 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

The problem is that conservatives do not bother to vote. They evidently have better things to do.


11 posted on 02/22/2014 4:25:31 AM PST by HChampagne
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

We are watching the dress rehearsal for what is about to happen to the bondholders and pensioners of the US government.


12 posted on 02/22/2014 4:26:05 AM PST by zeestephen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
Since Obama personally pledged that Detroit will not fail, he needs to pony up and release some of his offshore accounts and make up the difference...

From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

Here is the entire Karl Marx quote:
In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly—only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

Probably on a plaque somewhere in the WH muslim prayer room...

13 posted on 02/22/2014 4:36:55 AM PST by Popman ("Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Gaffer
What good is an upped vig when it becomes near-certain they will renege on that deal too?

Then COD becomes the mode of financing. Happens all the time in the real business world.

14 posted on 02/22/2014 4:39:26 AM PST by abb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: HChampagne
The problem is that conservatives do not bother to vote. They evidently have better things to do.

Well, there is Dancing With the Stars, and the Super Bowl, and college basketball. All so very important.../sarc

15 posted on 02/22/2014 4:40:42 AM PST by abb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Libloather
Orr proposed 34 percent cuts to the pension checks of general city retirees and a 10 percent cut for police and fire retirees. Those cuts could be reduced if the city's two independent pension boards agree to the plan.

Why are some retirees more equal than others? If the pensions have to take a hit then all pensioners should take the hit equally.

16 posted on 02/22/2014 4:41:19 AM PST by DoodleDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SkyPilot

“There may be a time, very, very soon, where millions of Boomers and others demand “something be done.” “

Only a few ways to get things done. The first one is purging organizations of left wing leadership. AARP for one.

The 1960’s left wing radicals run the show right now and their front man is untouchable.


17 posted on 02/22/2014 4:50:56 AM PST by EQAndyBuzz (Insurgent Conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: abb

Yep....basically when you’re PROVEN a deadbeat, up-front cash is how you have to live. Either that, or by the point of a gun and you take it.


18 posted on 02/22/2014 4:51:04 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: ronnie raygun

“Promises rat politicans make that they cant keep”

its not just Democrats. Its every politician over the past 40 years. We have tens of millions of state, federal, and municipal employees who expect to reap pensions that they were “promised” that require money from the future private sector that simply isn’t there. These folks will not get paid as expected.


19 posted on 02/22/2014 5:15:11 AM PST by RFEngineer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

Those union a-holes are the ones that caused it......it’s hell to be the ass and the end of a ponzie scheme!!!


20 posted on 02/22/2014 5:40:47 AM PST by ontap
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

Who in his right mind was buying Detroit’s bonds??


21 posted on 02/22/2014 5:43:42 AM PST by ontap
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: zeestephen; Libloather
their proposed plan to pay bondholders, pensioners and other creditors holding its $18 billion debt substantially less then they're owed.

Or less THAN. Either way. All the editors have died.

We are watching the dress rehearsal for what is about to happen to the bondholders and pensioners of the US government.

Yep - except that the Chinese hold, last I heard, $600 billion of our debt. They're not going to bow politely, swear a bit quietly in Mandarin, and walk away.

22 posted on 02/22/2014 6:06:42 AM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: DoodleDawg
Why are some retirees more equal than others? If the pensions have to take a hit then all pensioners should take the hit equally.

They don't want to piss off the cops and firemen enough that they all call in sick, and then what's left of Detroit burns to the ground.

23 posted on 02/22/2014 6:17:47 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

Sue the Democrat party. They caused these problems and they have lots of money.


24 posted on 02/22/2014 6:23:59 AM PST by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: zeestephen
We are watching the dress rehearsal for what is about to happen to the bondholders and pensioners of the US government.

I think you are correct.

I am sure Congressional, Presidential, and senior government executive pensions will be nearly or fully "funded." Most others, including Social Security, will probably be screwed. Same thing for bondholders.

25 posted on 02/22/2014 6:33:45 AM PST by SkyPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: RFEngineer
It won't just be state, federal, or municipal employees affected.

The market is going to crash, hard. Trillions in IRA and 401K "savings" will be wiped out.

26 posted on 02/22/2014 6:35:44 AM PST by SkyPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: DoodleDawg
Why are some retirees more equal than others? If the pensions have to take a hit then all pensioners should take the hit equally.

The Police and Fire Pensions were run with a modicum of fiduciary responsibility and quite frankly, many of their rank and file have little desire to bail out their brethren who worked in the various other department falling under the General Pension ( see below). It is about the underfunding of each financial entity if you will, with the General being the worst.

Their was a great article on the FR-banned Detroit Newspapers a few years ago about all the sins of the General Pension. Kawame hiring some friends that invested in small businesses that went belly up cost the fund somewhere between 500 million and 1.5 billion in losses, the Annual "Bonus" paid out in good market return years that depleted the fund of needed assets in a time like this are just two examples of horrid mismanagement.

Locally here in the Detwaa burbs I have seen TV interviews of Police and Fire retirees exhibiting no solidarity or willingness to step up to the plate and help the General Pension fund. Interesting....

27 posted on 02/22/2014 6:46:05 AM PST by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: HChampagne
The problem is that conservatives do not bother to vote. They evidently have better things to do.

The real problem is conservatives aren't always given a person "worthy" to get their vote. The "lesser of two evils" arguement, which many throw out at election time to drum up support for a RINO over a Democrat, has proven to be a failure.

People like McCain, Graham, McConnell, Boehner and others; are just as much of the reason the nation is in the sad condition, as the Democrats.

28 posted on 02/22/2014 7:05:40 AM PST by voicereason (The RNC is like the "One-night stand" you wish you could forget.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: SkyPilot

Except when private retirement account are wiped out by a stock market crash, taxpayers aren’t on the hook to pay out guaranteed benefits as the public employees retirement accounts are.


29 posted on 02/22/2014 7:13:00 AM PST by Rusty0604
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Rusty0604

23 seniors have died of this new Supper FLU vaccine.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/even-in-2014-influenza-kills/

There is also a CVS article on it if you care to Google it.


30 posted on 02/22/2014 7:36:36 AM PST by GailA (IF you fail to keep your promises to the Military, you won't keep them to Citizens!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: PapaBear3625
They don't want to piss off the cops and firemen enough that they all call in sick, and then what's left of Detroit burns to the ground.

If it burned to the ground who would know?

If Detroit's problems are the fault of the unions then it's the fault of all of them. Hit all the unions equally and maybe instead of a 35% cut it becomes a 20% cut. Wouldn't that be fair?

31 posted on 02/22/2014 8:24:10 AM PST by DoodleDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: taildragger
The Police and Fire Pensions were run with a modicum of fiduciary responsibility and quite frankly, many of their rank and file have little desire to bail out their brethren who worked in the various other department falling under the General Pension ( see below). It is about the underfunding of each financial entity if you will, with the General being the worst.

Underfunding is the fault of the city. Since it was their inept management of their pension responsibility that caused the shortfall, coupled with the demands of unions like the police and fire that caused the debt issue then it's only fair that all of them take the hit equally.

Locally here in the Detwaa burbs I have seen TV interviews of Police and Fire retirees exhibiting no solidarity or willingness to step up to the plate and help the General Pension fund. Interesting....

Say the shoe was on the other foot, would you expect the general fund recipients be willing to bail out police and fire? No. Sorry, all the unions colluded with the various mayors to drive the city into the ground. None are more innocent than any other. If pensions are to be cut they should be cut across the board. And if any of Detroit's former mayors and city council are drawing pensions then they should take a hit as well.

32 posted on 02/22/2014 8:29:33 AM PST by DoodleDawg
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

It’s an election year, the Demagogic Party wants its hooks back in us. Thanks Libloather.


33 posted on 02/22/2014 9:06:48 AM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: voicereason
The problem is that conservatives do not bother to vote. They evidently have better things to do.

"The real problem is conservatives aren't always given a person "worthy" to get their vote."

Very true. But I'm afraid that is the reality of the world we live in. Neither McCain nor Romney were my preference, but I voted for both of them. I mean, look at what we got.

And, to be perfectly honest about it, ever since I first began voting in 1971, I've voted for only one candidate that I absolutely knew was "worthy" - me. I ran for a city council seat in 1982 and voted for myself. Every other election, I voted for the lesser of the evils.

34 posted on 02/22/2014 9:15:52 AM PST by abb
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: DoodleDawg

DD, thanks for the great response, I can’t argue your thought process consistent with my limited knowledge of bankruptcy law. My reason was to give a local flavor as to how people are responding emotionally to this situation as well as the history of it. As someone close to Detroit media I sometimes think these subtle nuances do not get the airplay they deserves....


35 posted on 02/22/2014 9:50:14 AM PST by taildragger (The E-GOP won't know what hit them, The Party of Reagan is almost here, hang tight folks....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: DoodleDawg

Detroit’s problems started even before 1967. The lack of dough is due to the city getting hollowed out of peeps and their tax contributions over the decades of ‘rat rule.


36 posted on 02/22/2014 11:40:20 AM PST by Paladin2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Libloather

If it were not under attack from unions we would know it was no good.

By the time it is straightened out enough union pensioners will be dead to resolve the issue


37 posted on 02/22/2014 11:44:02 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: abb; HChampagne

What makes you think that there might be any conservatives left in Detroit city over the last 10-20 years?


38 posted on 02/22/2014 11:48:31 AM PST by expat2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Rusty0604
Except when private retirement account are wiped out by a stock market crash, taxpayers aren’t on the hook to pay out guaranteed benefits as the public employees retirement accounts are.

That is changing, and changing rapidly.

The dangers of Obama’s ‘MyRA’ scam

Your 401K or IRA will soon be seized by the government

Obama’s MyRA Accounts—The Next Step Towards Government Seizure Of Precious Metals IRA Assets

Obama to Force Americans to Buy Government Bonds?

If you think this is all conspiracy theory gibberish, think again.

Read this:

Retirement Savings Accounts Draw U.S. Consumer Bureau Attention

39 posted on 02/22/2014 12:28:41 PM PST by SkyPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Hardastarboard

The news on China is TWICE as bad as you remember.

China held $1.27 trillion of USA debt in December 2013.

If (When) USA interest rates start going up, our economy will be in deep, deep trouble.

Our total debt to foreign nations is $5.8 trillion.

My preferred solution to foreigners who want their money back.....?

“Please press ONE to hear ‘F**K YOU’ in your native language.”


40 posted on 02/22/2014 1:46:04 PM PST by zeestephen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Hardastarboard
RE: “All the editors have died.”

All the editors are EASL’s (English As A Second Language).

Another job Americans won't do!

41 posted on 02/22/2014 1:51:36 PM PST by zeestephen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: SkyPilot

Thank you; not a conspiracy theory at all. I’ve been all over this since the Dems started pushing it in 2010.
I see in Obama’s new budget proposal he is wanting to limit the amount of tax-deferred contributions made if “you make too much money”. Last year he wanted to put a cap on the balance in retirement plans.


42 posted on 02/22/2014 2:07:08 PM PST by Rusty0604
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Rusty0604
You bet.

And here is why it will happen (and why governments like Poland and others have already done this):

1. The national debt is too big, so it is not a question of "if" they are going to seize all retirement accounts, but when (Poland has already done this)

2. They will transfer all of your retirement assets to government paper (bonds) because they know exactly where your assets are, because you have to report them, and no one will be able to stop the seizure because no one is able to stop the governments of the world from doing anything they want to

3. There is a "Retirement Wave" coming - millions of Baby Boomers, retiring at a rate of 10,000 per day right now, who will need to be taken care of in old age - and our government has already announced many, many it cannot fiscally do so

4. When the market "corrects" (or crashes, whatever people want to call it), then there will be an outcry for someone to "do something"

43 posted on 02/22/2014 5:48:05 PM PST by SkyPilot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson