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Oldest fortified settlement ever found in North America? Location of Fort Caroline may be in Georgia
Science Daily ^ | February 22, 2014 | Florida State University

Posted on 02/22/2014 3:38:46 AM PST by Makana

In an announcement likely to rewrite the book on early colonization of the New World, two researchers have proposed a location for the oldest fortified settlement ever found in North America.

They believe that the legendary Fort Caroline, a long-sought fort built by the French in 1564, is located near the mouth of the Altamaha River in southeast Georgia.

(Excerpt) Read more at sciencedaily.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: altamahariver; america; archaeology; colonialamerica; fortcaroline; france; george; godsgravesglyphs
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I live in Plymouth, MA, USA which is planning for its 400th anniversary.

This could be trouble.

1 posted on 02/22/2014 3:38:47 AM PST by Makana
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To: SunkenCiv; blam

Old stuff ping


2 posted on 02/22/2014 3:41:00 AM PST by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free..... Even robots will kill for it!)
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To: Makana

Cool post, I hope the archaeology freepers show up to flesh this out.


3 posted on 02/22/2014 3:49:44 AM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: Makana

Looks like it....they found some sort of structure from a collection of different maps and references of the era. They have not, as yet, excavated it.


4 posted on 02/22/2014 3:50:46 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: Makana
...Fort Caroline, a long-sought fort built by the French in 1564.

In 1565, Spanish soldiers under Pedro Menéndez marched into Fort Caroline and slaughtered some 143 men and women who were living there at the time.

Some fort, eh?

5 posted on 02/22/2014 3:51:57 AM PST by metesky (Brethren, leave us go amongst them! - Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond, The Searchers)
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To: Makana

I am not sure why. This discovery won’t change the date of the settlement at Plymouth and it won’t change the fact that it wasn’t the first in North America.


6 posted on 02/22/2014 3:53:06 AM PST by MD Expat in PA
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To: Gaffer

... then there’s still time to pave over it and put a gas station at that site???


7 posted on 02/22/2014 3:53:13 AM PST by Ken522
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To: Makana

This puzzled me, but now I get it.
“”In 1565, Spanish soldiers under Pedro Menéndez marched into Fort Caroline and slaughtered some 143 men and women who were living there at the time.””


8 posted on 02/22/2014 3:58:48 AM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: Ken522

Maybe....but I’d make it a Home Depot...that way there’d be a place for the illegals to hang out and stump for day labor jobs....better for the economy...


9 posted on 02/22/2014 3:58:58 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: Makana

Come now everyone by now knows that Leif Erickson founded Minnesota long before Columbus, the Pilgrims and the French. Ft. Caroline will not change the facts about Plymouth.

Plymouth Bay is the only surviving colony settlement. Were they wanting to settle further south. What ever happened to the other colony settlement they were heading to. There was another settlement too Jamestown, which would have preceded Plymouth, but it did not survive.


10 posted on 02/22/2014 4:04:23 AM PST by hondact200 (Candor dat viribos alas (sincerity gives wings to strength) and Nil desperandum (never despair))
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To: hondact200

visited Jamestown a few years ago. fascinating. i’m guessing the difference was mosquitos as thats what took them out. being north of here had an advantage


11 posted on 02/22/2014 4:25:39 AM PST by CrouchingTiger620 (is it possible to 45th worse out of 44)
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To: Makana
While studying in the Paris archives, Crowe found a 1685 map of "French Florida" that was accurately surveyed.

"This map serves as a 'Rosetta Stone' since it provides a common, known geographical point on all early maps of 'French Florida,'" he said. The Rosetta Stone was an inscribed rock found by the French in Egypt that allowed the translation of ancient hieroglyphics into modern languages.

Using the known GPS coordinates derived from the English map, Crowe was able to propose the location of dozens of Indian villages that up until now have eluded scholars and archaeologists.

Wait.... our schools have now gotten so bad that the author actually needed to explain what the Rosetta Stone is?

12 posted on 02/22/2014 4:27:39 AM PST by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: MD Expat in PA

I was being sarcastic! Nothing will stop these people from organizing a parade.


13 posted on 02/22/2014 4:30:24 AM PST by Makana (Self-esteem is the new intelligence. - Greenfield)
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To: Makana

Fort located near the mouth of the Altamaha River?

Satellite imagery shows a unrealistic place to build a fort.


14 posted on 02/22/2014 4:34:25 AM PST by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Makana

http://historiccity.com/2011/staugustine/news/florida/editorial-city-plans-elaborate-party-19055


15 posted on 02/22/2014 4:51:37 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: metesky
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/spanishmassacre.htm

This is another encounter South of St.Augustine.

16 posted on 02/22/2014 4:55:23 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Makana
The Altamaha comes through the 2nd "O" in the word Tolomato at about the center of this map:

The "mouth" of the Altamaha is close to what is now Darien, Georgia.
17 posted on 02/22/2014 4:56:48 AM PST by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

If they slaughtered 150 young men and women who created and owned the place, then it must have been for a good reason.


18 posted on 02/22/2014 5:06:10 AM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: MD Expat in PA

Key to this story vs your comments, “first fortified” as in number one........none before it.


19 posted on 02/22/2014 5:14:05 AM PST by stockpirate (It appears good men have decided to do nothing, so evil is prevailing......)
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To: hondact200
There was another settlement too Jamestown, which would have preceded Plymouth, but it did not survive.

Jamestown was established in 1607 what was then the Virginia colony and it most assuredly did survive, if only barely. It remained the capital of the Virginia colony until 1699, when the capital moved a bit up the river to Williamsburg.

Jamestown thus predates Plymouth by some 13 years as the oldest permanent English-speaking colony in North America.

20 posted on 02/22/2014 5:29:36 AM PST by DSH
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To: Java4Jay

They didn’t use satalittes back then. ;-)


21 posted on 02/22/2014 5:37:56 AM PST by hoosiermama (Obama: "Born in Kenya" Lying now or then or now)
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To: Makana

Interesting in that Fort Caroline National Memorial is located on the
St. Johns River east of Jacksonvill, FL.

http://www.nps.gov/timu/index.htm


22 posted on 02/22/2014 5:40:18 AM PST by deport
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To: ansel12
Spanish Catholics VS French Hugenots.

Keep in mind that the Inquisition was going strong at the time, throw in politics, generally nasty dispositions, to say nothing of fleas, halitosis and jock itch and things got messy.

23 posted on 02/22/2014 5:44:19 AM PST by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

History is truly hard.


24 posted on 02/22/2014 5:50:39 AM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: Makana

I vote for Acoma Sky City, Acoma Puebla, New Mexico as the oldest continuously inhabited village in North America.

Lew


25 posted on 02/22/2014 5:53:05 AM PST by laterldf
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To: metesky

What kindofa name is Pedro Menéndez? I bet he was here illegally.

/sarc.


26 posted on 02/22/2014 6:08:48 AM PST by proudpapa (Scott Walker - 2016)
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To: Makana; Tennessee Nana
This discovery does not mean trouble. This discovery merely locates the fort. The trouble has been well known for a long time.The existence of the 1564 colony is well known and described in the first person in the book "Three Voyages" by Rene Laudonniere.

He was a French Hugenot that made the three voyages to and from the colony at Fort Caroline in the 1560's. In spite of the fact the article says " "The inability to find the fort has made some wonder if it ever existed." There can be no legitimate wonder because of this book. It is first hand primary source.

In 1854, Kirk Monro wrote a book titled "The Flamingo Feather". As a boy, I read it over and over. It is essentially a fictional account of the events descried in "Three Voyages"

As an adult I have made numerous backpacking trips to the Cumberland Island National Sea Shore. One of the reasons I was drawn to that island was the creepy feeling that I was treading the ground described in the Flamingo Feather. I did extensive research to place Fort Caroline at the St Mary's River estuary. The St Mary's river provides the access to the great swamp the books describe. That would be the Okefenokee Swamp.

The Fort Caroline was captured and destroyed by the Spanish marching Overland from St Augistine. That fact is well known and is certain. The distance to the river of May in Florida at Jackonsville and the USNB at Mayport from St Augistine is much shorter and believable than to either Fernindina/Cumberland Island or the Altamatha River estuary.

I have no doubt there was a site discovered. I would doubt it is Ft Caroline. BTW, the Fort Caroline National Historical Park was established in 1966 on land given to the park service for the establishment of the park. There was nothing there that actually drew the park service.


27 posted on 02/22/2014 6:21:40 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: hondact200

Leif Erickson didn’t make it to Minnesota. The settlement he founded was on the Atlantic coast. The Kensington Runestone, a supposed artifact dating from the fourteenth century that indicates a Scandinavian presence in Minnesota at the time, is widely believed to be the product of a hoax or prank.


28 posted on 02/22/2014 6:26:39 AM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: DSH

I have 2 different 14th great grandfathers who arrived in Jamestown before 1615. One is John Rolfe, who married Pocahauntas.


29 posted on 02/22/2014 6:28:49 AM PST by gop4lyf (Are we no longer in that awkward time? Or is it still too early?)
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To: ansel12

The Spaniards landed at what is now St Agustine. They established their fort and colony there after destroying Ft Caroline


30 posted on 02/22/2014 6:34:27 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: hondact200

——Plymouth Bay is the only surviving colony settlement-—

Except for St Augustness and the even older Santa Fe


31 posted on 02/22/2014 6:36:04 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: ansel12

The French were protestants, the Spaniards were Catholic..... simple as that


32 posted on 02/22/2014 6:37:49 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: gop4lyf
I have 2 different 14th great grandfathers who arrived in Jamestown before 1615. One is John Rolfe, who married Pocahauntas.

Then you definitely have the credentials to be an FFV!

33 posted on 02/22/2014 6:41:32 AM PST by DSH
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To: laterldf

No......

That prize goes to the Hopi village Orabi

“Old Oraibi is one of four original Hopi villages, and one of the oldest continuously inhabited villages within the territory of the United States. In the 1540s the village was recorded as having 1,500–3,000 residents


34 posted on 02/22/2014 6:41:53 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Fiji Hill

Widely believed is now less widely. Contemporary research has cast doubt on earlier linguistic analysis that the language on the stone couldn’t have existed in the 14th century.


35 posted on 02/22/2014 6:58:00 AM PST by JmyBryan
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To: Makana

actually they found remains of a Fort Caroline in South Carolina a few years ago...

It was triangular in shape...

we had a speaker at a Huguenot luncheon a few years ago who told us the history and had engravings from a book about it..

and there was a Huguenot fort in Florida..

If the Catholic Spaniards had not wiped out the Protestant French in Florida, we would be celebrating Thanksgiving based on that 50 years earlier colony...

The Spaniards killed the Huguenots at both forts..

BTW there was big doings last year in Florida for the 450th anniversary of the arrival of the Huguenots in Florida..


36 posted on 02/22/2014 7:21:03 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: bert

PING to #36


37 posted on 02/22/2014 7:22:33 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Makana

bump


38 posted on 02/22/2014 7:25:53 AM PST by Ditter
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To: Java4Jay

The fort builders to JJ: “Now ya tell us”


39 posted on 02/22/2014 7:29:13 AM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: Makana

And Florida had settlements long before that.


40 posted on 02/22/2014 7:31:43 AM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Sooth2222
>> the author actually needed to explain what the Rosetta Stone is <<

Not only that, his explanation was wrong.

To wit:

The real, 100% genuine Rosetta Stone is a company that uses disgustingly repititious TV commercials to peddle over-hyped, virtually useless language-learning software!

41 posted on 02/22/2014 7:42:58 AM PST by Hawthorn
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To: Makana

Isn’t Mexico part of North America?....Mexico has the ruins of fortified settlements dating back at least 6000 years


42 posted on 02/22/2014 7:53:22 AM PST by Paddyboy (Roma Omnia Vincit)
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To: Makana; All

ST Johns, New Foundland was settled in 1497.

The Spanish had a Mission in the St. Catherine’s area here in Georgia in 1521. I have held (ok it was in a box and I held the box) an authenticated 1524 Spanish Coin found in Liberty Co, Ga about 20 years ago.

If interested in the topic, look up works by David Hurst Thomas. He found and excavated the Mission from the early 1500 and wrote a several books about it (I got him to sign them the same day as the coin).

The Georgia coast is full of history. This is just one more star.


43 posted on 02/22/2014 8:10:36 AM PST by Conan the Librarian (The Best in Life is to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and the Dewey Decimal System)
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To: Conan the Librarian
St. John's, Newfoundland, was discovered by John Cabot on June 24, 1497 (the feast of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist). It wasn't settled until later. As late as the American Revolution, Newfoundland was sparsely inhabited, maybe 10,000 people (apparently mostly fishermen who spent the winter months getting drunk).
44 posted on 02/22/2014 8:18:05 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: Sooth2222

Everybody knows what Rosetta Stone is.

It’s a foreign language program advertised on late night TV. Comes on CD’s.


45 posted on 02/22/2014 8:19:36 AM PST by moovova
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To: ansel12

“...men and women who created and owned the place...”

“They didn’t build that.”


46 posted on 02/22/2014 8:21:18 AM PST by moovova
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To: Java4Jay

Fort King George is located at the mouth of that Delta in Darien.


47 posted on 02/22/2014 8:26:32 AM PST by Publius ("Who is John Galt?" by Billthedrill and Publius now available at Amazon.)
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To: Java4Jay

In October of 2008, I was traveling back to Florida from New Jersey, by boat. I went up that river (Altamaha) and docked at the “Two Way Marina”. Talk about going back in time. It looked like something out of “Deliverance”. The current really runs thru there and loaded with mud. Also, there is about an eight foot, tidal drop. I was glad to clear that place and continue on to Florida the next morning.


48 posted on 02/22/2014 8:41:07 AM PST by Capt_Hank (btu's...kcal's...to kJ's, but my activation energy is still high.)
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To: DSH

What is FFV?


49 posted on 02/22/2014 8:52:18 AM PST by gop4lyf (Are we no longer in that awkward time? Or is it still too early?)
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To: DSH

Nevermind, I figured it out!


50 posted on 02/22/2014 9:04:07 AM PST by gop4lyf (Are we no longer in that awkward time? Or is it still too early?)
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