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California farmers won't get federal water
Yahoo News ^ | February 22, 2014 | Scott Smith

Posted on 02/22/2014 1:12:09 PM PST by Robwin

FRESNO, Calif. (AP) — Without a lot more rain and snow, many California farmers caught in the state's drought can expect to receive no irrigation water this year from a vast system of rivers, canals and reservoirs interlacing the state, federal officials announced Friday.

The U.S. Bureau of Reclamation released its first outlook of the year, saying that the agency will continue to monitor rain and snow fall, but the grim levels so far prove that the state is in the throes of one of its driest periods in recorded history.

Farmers who rely on the federally run Central Valley Project received only 20 percent of their normal water allotment last year and were expecting this year's bad news. Some communities and endangered wildlife that rely on the federal water source will also suffer deep cuts.

The state's snowpack is at 29 percent of average for this time of year, which means that for farmers it's going to be a hard year.

"My gross sales are probably going to be cut in half," said Bill Diedrich, who farms 1,500 acres of almonds, tomatoes and other crops in the parched Central Valley community of Firebaugh. "Some farmers out here are going to lose everything they've got."

Gov. Jerry Brown last month declared California's drought emergency, and both state and federal officials have pledged millions of dollars to help with water conservation and food banks for those put out of work by the drought.

California officials who manage the State Water Project, the state's other major water system, have already said they won't be releasing any water for farmers, marking a first in its 54-year history.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; US: California
KEYWORDS: califdrought; californiadrought; drought; watershortage
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Yeah, about that. Sixty-one and point one percent of voters voted for Obama in California.

How's that working out for you, California?

1 posted on 02/22/2014 1:12:09 PM PST by Robwin
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To: Robwin

Why is there even such a thing as “Federal Water” that is like the king’s hunting grounds...


2 posted on 02/22/2014 1:13:25 PM PST by GraceG
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To: Robwin

What the Hell is “Federal Water!!!????”


3 posted on 02/22/2014 1:14:07 PM PST by 4yearlurker (Some people say that experts agree!!)
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To: 4yearlurker

The Feds took over the “navigable waters,” then they took over the streams, then they took over the marshes and puddles. Now they own it all.


4 posted on 02/22/2014 1:16:45 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: GraceG

And who are you to question the king?


5 posted on 02/22/2014 1:17:39 PM PST by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Cicero
Good News

The second half of the upcoming week will feature soaking rain and mountain snow returning to drought-stricken California.

Confidence is growing for California to receive a substantial amount of rain and mountain snow from two storm systems later next week.

The first system is scheduled to move through California Wednesday through Thursday with the second to follow for Friday through the first part of the next weekend.

The second is likely to be the stronger and wetter of the two systems, bringing a much-needed soaking to many communities (with the deserts being the exception).

If the first storm bypasses or only grazes Southern California, the second will not. It is possible that Downtown Los Angeles receives at least half of the rain that fell in all of 2013 (3.60 inches) from this one storm Friday through next week.

Several inches of rain could soak the northern California coast, while feet of snow may blanket the Sierra. Snow levels could drop low enough to whiten the mountains of Southern California. . .

6 posted on 02/22/2014 1:20:43 PM PST by Newfy
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To: Robwin

There’ a really TINY country in the middle east next to a body of water so small it is ONLY called a SEA. This tiny country is in an area historically badly deficient in water.
They have designed, built and are running DESALINATION plants so productive, they are actually SELLING surplus water.
I read somewhere that California is quite close to a large body of water and has a coastline hundreds of miles long.
Once there was a really LARGE country that possessed the world’s greatest “CAN DO” attitude. That country, as it existed years ago, would have been producing so much water that California would have been in peril of becoming swamp land.
Billions of gallons of nice fresh water that would solve a lot of problems. After all, California is the prime source for the food needed by millions of Americans. But we musn’t spoil the view.


7 posted on 02/22/2014 1:22:33 PM PST by CaptainAmiigaf (NY TIMES: We print the news as it fits our views.)
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To: Robwin

How much of the water was taken away form the farmers in the first place to save the fish?


8 posted on 02/22/2014 1:24:09 PM PST by mountainlion
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To: Robwin

Will the golf courses get water?


9 posted on 02/22/2014 1:28:03 PM PST by MCF
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To: Robwin
Yeah, about that. Sixty-one and point one percent of voters voted for Obama in California.

How's that working out for you, California?

Isn't this Jim Robinson's part of California that is being denied water. IOW the Republican part.Hmmmm?

10 posted on 02/22/2014 1:28:18 PM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Robwin

Screw the farmers. I can get everything I need at the grocery store./s


11 posted on 02/22/2014 1:28:34 PM PST by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: Robwin

To get your answer you’ll need to ask people who do not
frequent FR. There are millions of Californians who aren’t
among the 61.1% who voted for Obama but we are still in
the minority these days.


12 posted on 02/22/2014 1:30:53 PM PST by Sivad (NorCal red turf)
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To: Robwin

Federal Blood.


13 posted on 02/22/2014 1:32:33 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: Robwin

Time to shut the water off in DC....and the power


14 posted on 02/22/2014 1:36:09 PM PST by goodnesswins (R.I.P. Doherty, Smith, Stevens, Woods.)
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To: Robwin

LOL @ “Federal Water”


15 posted on 02/22/2014 1:38:34 PM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: Robwin

I sure hope none of that federal water evaporates and then precipitates on my land. I’d be in heap big trouble.


16 posted on 02/22/2014 1:41:07 PM PST by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: Robwin

Reminiscent of when Lenin starved the Ukraine to force compliance with Moscow


17 posted on 02/22/2014 1:41:12 PM PST by Nifster
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To: Newfy

Ha! I’ll believe it when I see it. Forecasts for Pacific storms are notoriously unreliable. Any forecast 4 - 5 days out is highly suspect.


18 posted on 02/22/2014 1:43:38 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: umgud

Screw the farmers. I can get everything I need at the grocery store./s

Lol! Seriously, I think that’s about how most people think!

I’ve already had discussions with my neighbor, he’s got some land and last year I got him and his wife into gardening.

I pointed out this exact problem to him and he agrees... we are going to go to the wall with the veggies that are gonna cost an arm and a leg later this year.

I’m not a lunatic about lettuce, but it’s damn easy to grow, you just put the seeds in and let it go.

For me it’s more the tomatoes, cabbage, broccoli, peppers, taters

For him it’s kale. He planted some kale starts I gave him and has kale comin out of his ears now! Funny that it didn’t flower last year, it will go absolutely crazy later this year.

I planted a boatload of peas over there last year and didn’t see anything. Rabbit casualties!


19 posted on 02/22/2014 1:47:11 PM PST by djf (OK. Well, now, lemme try to make this clear: If you LIKE your lasagna, you can KEEP your lasagna!)
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To: CaptainAmiigaf

That middle eastern country can pump very cheap oil and gas out of the ground to power desalination. Desalination is energy intensive. And you know what the energy climate is like in the U.S. Even if you got your desalination plant approved, you’d never find reliable, cheap energy to power it.


20 posted on 02/22/2014 1:47:12 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: andyk

Yes you would. Stealing “Federal Water” is a felony offense, AFAIK. :)


21 posted on 02/22/2014 1:48:51 PM PST by upchuck (South Carolina Representative Trey Gowdy for Speaker of the House!!!)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

It has been posted here that California might have unlimited gas if their shale was fracked


22 posted on 02/22/2014 1:51:25 PM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Robwin

Why is 0bama trying to bankrupt California? Because once the agriculture goes, the state goes belly up.


23 posted on 02/22/2014 1:52:46 PM PST by Zuben Elgenubi (NOPe to GOPe)
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To: Robwin

At this point it doesn’t look like there is any “Federal” water. Didn’t they wash all of it into the ocean?


24 posted on 02/22/2014 1:54:54 PM PST by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
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To: bert

No need to bother with the shale. The whole state is fracked. And I live there, too.


25 posted on 02/22/2014 1:55:16 PM PST by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Robwin

Love that Delta Smelt


26 posted on 02/22/2014 2:00:51 PM PST by autumnraine
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To: djf

Ironically it was our greens (mostly ) okra a few years back that was deet casualties.


27 posted on 02/22/2014 2:03:33 PM PST by autumnraine
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To: Robwin

Plenty of Mexicans -Hispanics will be impacted. Laborers. owners, illegal aliens. No compassion for these minorities from Imperial DC 3000 miles away. Even though they voted for Jug Ears


28 posted on 02/22/2014 2:04:41 PM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: CaptainAmiigaf

If we had any sense at all we would have desalination plants all along So Calif.


29 posted on 02/22/2014 2:05:16 PM PST by TheDon (Californians are losing their right to keep and bear firearms one firearm at a time.)
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To: Robwin

We want to drive up food prices.

We want to destroy family farms.

We want to get people out of the rural areas and compact them all into dense living cities controlled by liberals so you have to pay welfare for others.

Sincerely, Obama and his Marxist Democrats Destroying America


30 posted on 02/22/2014 2:05:50 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: TheDon

As there are a lot of other kinds of plants, or all various kinds, already there, even in an earthquake prone area, there’s no reason there shouldn’t be desalination plants there too.


31 posted on 02/22/2014 2:06:58 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: dennisw
Plenty of Mexicans -Hispanics will be impacted. Laborers. owners, illegal aliens. No compassion for these minorities from Imperial DC 3000 miles away. Even though they voted for Jug Ears

From thearticle: Gov. Jerry Brown last month declared California's drought emergency, and both state and federal officials have pledged millions of dollars to help with water conservation and food banks for those put out of work by the drought.

32 posted on 02/22/2014 2:14:33 PM PST by Teacher317 (We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men)
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To: Robwin
Am I the only one who wonders if the gummit is taking this opportunity to put farmers in this conservative area out of business and seize the land? Like the godfather said, never let a crisis go to waste.
33 posted on 02/22/2014 2:17:28 PM PST by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: Teacher317

both state and federal officials have pledged millions of dollars to help with water conservation and food banks for those put out of work by the drought.

Translation: take a nice vacation while we seize your bosses land.


34 posted on 02/22/2014 2:19:18 PM PST by beef (Who Killed Kennewick Man?)
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To: Teacher317

Why should there be such a thing as “federal water”


35 posted on 02/22/2014 2:23:28 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: djf

It doesn’t take much space, time or effort to plant and tend a garden. It’s rewarding too.


36 posted on 02/22/2014 2:39:12 PM PST by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: driftdiver; GraceG
And who are you to question the king?

Ask the guy with the hammer that question:


37 posted on 02/22/2014 2:39:51 PM PST by Rodamala
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To: umgud

Well, between me and my neighbor we must have grown 150 lbs of potatoes last year.

And I would be happy if we can at least double that this year.

It’s the ground prep that takes most of the work. He, fortunately, has a backhoe.

I have a spade or three!


38 posted on 02/22/2014 2:44:27 PM PST by djf (OK. Well, now, lemme try to make this clear: If you LIKE your lasagna, you can KEEP your lasagna!)
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To: djf

ever use the tire method?


39 posted on 02/22/2014 2:45:23 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Robwin

It took 80 years, but the dust bowl has followed them to the promised land.


40 posted on 02/22/2014 2:46:44 PM PST by Dalberg-Acton
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To: Robwin

You think 61% of the farmers in Cal voted for Obama? Save your sympathy for Cal, many of those lost crops go out of state.


41 posted on 02/22/2014 2:48:37 PM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: TheDon

new water source in north san diego county

Instead of the high speed train we should be building 5-6 of these plants.

Here’s some info on desalinization

http://www.pacinst.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/desalination_report3.pdf

Carlsbad Cal is building a plant which is slated to open in 2016, 16 years after the proposal was approved by the city. Administrative hearings and court processes in which environmental groups got several bites of the apple trying to shoot it down.

It will suppjy up to 10% of the county’s water.

What happens to the salt?

The desalination plant typically uses three kilograms of seawater to produce 1 kilogram of fresh water. The extracted salt dissolves in the excess sea water used in the process to form so-called brine. The brine is returned to the sea where it is diluted again in its natural medium.

Can salt be recovered?

The usual desalination processes do not provide for such recovery. Whereas they concentrate seawater 1.5 times, recovery of salt would require seawater to be concentrated ten times. Under such conditions the first crystals would appear in the brine. This would require a lot of energy and cannot be justified on an economic standpoint. Today whenever a large surface area is available close to a sunny seashore, salt pans, which make use of solar energy, are still the best method of salt production.


42 posted on 02/22/2014 2:50:36 PM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: GeronL

Nope. I’ve seen pictures and know what it is, it would be a good idea for someone who has a small back yard or (if it can stand the weight) a patio.

We have about an acre that is rowed-up and cultivatable. We could make more, but it means clearing out more stumps and blackberries.


43 posted on 02/22/2014 2:51:17 PM PST by djf (OK. Well, now, lemme try to make this clear: If you LIKE your lasagna, you can KEEP your lasagna!)
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To: Robwin

Anyone know why Obma cam out to the Central Valey last week? Was it to tell the farmers “tough sh!#?


44 posted on 02/22/2014 2:53:09 PM PST by morphing libertarian
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To: djf

borrow that backhoe then

:p


45 posted on 02/22/2014 2:54:58 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: GeronL
This is why the Feds claim it is Federal water.


46 posted on 02/22/2014 2:55:41 PM PST by Karl Spooner
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To: Karl Spooner

bump

government should not own land it doesn’t need for a Constitutional purpose in my opinion


47 posted on 02/22/2014 2:58:35 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: umgud

Stealing that for my tagline :)


48 posted on 02/22/2014 3:19:51 PM PST by NonValueAdded (Screw the farmers. I can get everything I need at the grocery store.)
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To: Robwin

Central valley farmers didn’t vote for Obama ... you can take that to the bank.


49 posted on 02/22/2014 3:24:34 PM PST by BillyBonebrake
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To: Robwin; All
This water issue issue was a hard one for me to reconcile the constitutionality of. I had made the mistake in a related thread of not seeing that Congress probably has the power to tax and spend for improving natural "intrastate" resources where the public use lands of the 5th Amendment, or where the federal entities under the exclusive legislative control of Congress indicated in the Constitution's Clause 17 of Section 8 of Article I are concerned.

However ...

Researching the federal law that established the US Bureau of Reclamation, originally called the US Reclamation Service, I discovered the following about that service. The US Reclamation Service was established under the federal Reclamation Act. And the possible constitutional problem with the Reclamation Act is that it provided funding for irrigation projects.

More specifically, and I don't know the details of these historical projects, bu if the federal irrigation projects were not done on the public use lands of the 5th Amendment, or in conjunction with the federal entities described in Clause 17 referenced above, then Congress arguably had no constitutional authority to appropriate tax dollars for such projects.

In fact, the delegates to the Constitutional Convention had discussed the idea of granting Congress the specific power to build canals, waterways historically the most economical way to move manufactured goods before superhighways were made. But the delegates to the Con-Con had decided not to grant Congress such powers. Here's a link to a related page.

Veto of federal public works bill

So the water now controlled by the Bureau of Reclamation is possibly an early example where Congress first needed to petition the States for an amendment to the Constitution which granted Congress the specific power to lay taxes to fund such projects, but neglected to do so.

Finally, it's disturbing that pro-one world government Progressive Movement was gaining momentum in 1902 when the Reclamation Act was established, the Progressive Movement evidenced by the constitutionally indefensible "private" Federal Reserve and the ratification of the misguided 16th and 17th Amendments in that era.

50 posted on 02/22/2014 3:25:02 PM PST by Amendment10
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