Skip to comments.Why the eruption in Kiev could set off a tsunami that will engulf us all...
Posted on 02/23/2014 12:29:40 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Television pictures of revolutions can make them seem like a spectator sport.
Having Vitali Klitschko, the world heavyweight boxing champion, playing a starring role in the events in Kiev reinforces that impression.
But the implosion of the Ukrainian state in the last 48 hours is a political earthquake.
Chaos in Kiev could set off a tsunami that will toss Western Europe from its moorings too.
It is a mistake to think we are watching from a safe distance.
Maybe Ukraine is as foreign to the British people today as it was when an obscure crisis on its southern coast in Queen Victorias reign became the Crimean War.
But not since the 1850s has this country come so close to colliding with Russia.
Ukraine sits on the fault line dividing Eastern Europe between pro-Western and pro-Russian views. Her people are split over attitudes to the old imperial capital, Moscow.
That divide is now opening up as pro-Russian districts in the East such as Kharkov and Crimea refuse to accept the overthrow of President Viktor Yanukovych celebrated in Kiev.
Civil war would be a tragedy for Ukraines people. But what makes the crisis so dangerous is the international dimension.
Since the collapse of Communism in 1991, the US and its European allies have seen keeping Ukraine independent of Russia as a key result of victory in the Cold War.
For Russians, losing Ukraine was a huge blow....
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
The author sounds like a drama queen. Nothing imploded. They ejected an elected official for corruption, and are attempting to regain the rule of law, instead of that of a de-facto dictator.
I do not see it going outside of the OLD Soviet Union, or the western boarder.
>>I do not see it going outside of the OLD Soviet Union, or the western boarder.<<
True, not that much. On the other hand there are numerous pipelines in Ukraine, feeding Europe with Russian oil and gas.
Who thought that the assassination of a relatively minor Hapsburg would start a major world war?
Bought more canned meat. Doing some small stuff; which is better than nothing, I suppose. Finding ammo here and there.
Every corrupt government, including ours, should be paying close attention to all of these events.
“On the other hand there are numerous pipelines in Ukraine, feeding Europe”
Yes, I lived at the Slovnaft refinery in Bratislava, Slovakia,
2006 to Jan. 2009.
I do not know as a fact, but I assume that crude came through the Ukraine “Druzhba” pipeline to that refinery.
Would that we did the same.
One of those ships ran aground.
“The author sounds like a drama queen. Nothing imploded. They ejected an elected official for corruption, and are attempting to regain the rule of law”
The point is that democracy or majority rule can quickly devolve into something really ugly like the majority nazis and the minority jews.
I think Venezuela actually elected Chavez and his successor.
We really did elect Obama. And the people of Zimbabwe really did elect Mugabe.
And in a closely divided country, one minute you are in the majority, the next minute you are in the minority. One minute you are winning and the next you are losing.
I think what is happening in the Ukraine is no more then the re-democratization of the country. The lefties will try to paint it as a socialist up rising which would be a wet dream for anyone imagining a people’s revolution. The securing of parliament, government buildings and the expected return to elections by May signal to me it was a legitimate takeover after the leader no longer reflected the will and aspirations of the people and who broke the law in doing so. Remind us of anyone?
tearing down the Lenin statues should be a clue for the lefties
I tend to agree with the Hapsburg analogy. Course, it doesn’t help that from 1905 on....the Kaiser was fully developing his war strategy and this merely served as a trigger to run his ‘short-term war’. All the way through the end of 1914....the top level of the German government felt it’d all be over by the summer of 1915, and it would be chiefly mounted against Russia. They guessed wrong on almost every single detail.
And they need a clue but they are great at ignoring stuff like that!
it’s still playing out.
If they burned a pile of the Communist Manifesto maybe the DUmmies would notice?
The irony and contradictions of this conflict threaten to engulf history books
Former communist entity and superpower commie big brother
Now arguably less leftist than the euroweenies trying to usurp Russia’s in house neighbor
Western media...progressives or neocons all....not much difference on foreign policy really
Laud these Euromaidans as folk heroes
But if one looks who they really are and who’s behind them....Soros....US state dept.....western leftists
And that they are seriously armed
You realize once again this is no “spring” and our media and govt are idiots
Russia offers sweetheart deal but we push for Euro Union crap and who’s more lefty
Putin or Euro Union
Now the Ukraine will divide but they can’t split the pipeline so I see full scale war coming and Brussels will clamor for treating Russians like Serbs
But Russians are a lot bigger and I don’t blame them for wanting Ukraine to stay in the fold
This will likely end poorly and our govt.... and media will have helped screw it up
One calls human rights ...the other nation building
They are enamored with the partially victorious rebels as freedom fighters or....lord is the west poorly led
The danger here, IMHO, is if Putin decided to send Russian troops into the Ukraine, under the guise of sending them south to “protect” the big Russian naval base..
People have no idea. We haven’t been in this much danger of the balloon going up since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
“People have no idea. We havent been in this much danger of the balloon going up since the Cuban Missile Crisis.”
But this time we have a jerk for a leader.
“Who thought that the assassination of a relatively minor Hapsburg would start a major world war?”
yes, that’s always the thing, isn’t it?
I’ve never made a serious study of WWI, but I’ve read enough about it to conclude that it is unlikely I’ll ever understand it.
And it was the end, the very end of the world as it had been (with minor erruptions like the American and French revolutions) for hundreds if not thousands of years.
In a way we may still be living in its upheaval.
So, yes, while I don’t think it’s likely that what’s happening in Ukraine will affect us, I wouldn’t rule it out.
People have no idea. We havent been in this much danger of the balloon going up since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
But this time we have a jerk for a leader.
Do you really think Obammy is calling the shots?
“Do you really think Obammy is calling the shots?”
Not if it’s not on his teleprompter.
Every corrupt government especially ours should pay attention
You would be wrong. I have a very good friend who is Russian & lives near Moscow. A large portion of the population want things back the way they were before the wall fell & ripped apart their country. But they realize that Putin is their best option. Spend some time on Russian blogs (via Google translate) & you will see the truth.
Of course, no one thought about siding w Ukraine until Russia started banning Homosexual activity....all this “save Ukraine” is just the Gay Rights folks looking for another way to whine about Russia “not being gay”.
You saw none of these articles on Ukraine until after Russia passed its law...and you have a lot of leftist folks on here siding w liberal media, EU, Soros, Obama, on Ukraine
It IS chilling when we consider that the people of Ukraine want closer ties with the EU and Nuland is saying .... the EU. Is she perhaps voicing support for Putin?
You get what’s going on in Ukraine...
Scary is a lot of folks on here support the liberals overthrowing a lawfully elected govt....and a lot of folks supporting the US liberal media version of everything.
Or...voicing George Soros frustration with the EU not moving fast enough...
Obama supports the EU/Soros/Liberal Globalist in Ukraine
Pretty much describes the Obama Administration from top to bottom.
I get your point. Nuland could be frustrated that the EU and Ukraine are not yet joined, for lack of a better word. It’s going to take me a while to fully understand this situation.
Lawfully elected government???
One can say that about Hitler too. The fact is Viktor Yanukovych and his thugs stole money by the billions, imprisoned the main opposition leader, and enforced an entire culture of corruption. Even many his powerbase in the Eastern Ukraine turned against the SOB.
i am with you. i keep get “Nugged”,
EOM list antibiotics ,seeds, gas and rechargable batteries.
this month pepper spray stick matches lots of canned milk macaroni and soup.
ps i just opened 2012 self canned 2012 beef stew hmm hm good.
22s on orde4 since nov. nada.
Our representative in the White House is representing his fellow moslems in their push to build a competing pipeline to feed Europe. Gazprom is making money and the Moslems want to secure new cash-flows by putting in a pipeline. Russia sees USA hand in hand with the Moslem Brotherhood. We blew up Libya, created an Arab Spring in Egypt and have billions of dollars funneled to Ukraine for democritization. Read about Open Society Foundations OWNED BY SOROS. A non paranoid observer would view this not as east vs west but as Christianity vs moselms. Russia is going through a deep religious revival with evangelicals as the wild card.
Germany knew that it must avoid a prolonged two front war and its war plans were designed to quickly knock out France so it could turn its full might against Russia. That plan narrowly failed but the Germans were not alone in their hope, if not their belief, that a short war was to be expected. Every single major belligerent, France, Austria, and England, believed almost universally that a short war would ensue.
Indeed, there were very few who thought otherwise except a Pole civilian, a businessman, who wrote presciently about the extent and nature of the first world war but generally the heads of state, the diplomats, and for the most part, the generals all believed that the war would be short, won by a preponderance of force brought first to bear.
War guilt for the First World War cannot exclusively be placed on German hands. The Serbs condoned terrorism to achieve their ends of a greater separatist Serbia. The Austrians wanted a quick and brutal war to discipline the Serbs and preserve the Empire. The Germans wanted a place of primacy which their population and economy had earned and, if a war were to be fought with France and Russia, Germany wanted to fight it on its terms. France wanted to avenge 1871, regain Alsace Lorraine, and humiliate Germany. England entered the war ostensibly to rescue beleaguered Belgium but also because it had a centuries old policy of aligning itself against the greatest continental power to preserve a so-called balance of power. England's intervention into the war guaranteed its spread into a world war.
Vladimir Putin should be seen as a reversion to Stalin, Trotsky, Lenin, and, yes, Ivan the Terrible. Ukraine was once part of Poland and even parts of it belonged to Prussia. These quarrels are ancient but the belligerence is now exclusively on one side, Russia. It is not fair to say that all of the guilt for The First World War is exclusively on the side of The Central Powers. I do not mean to intimate that you have placed blame exclusively on the Kaiser, I merely want to state my version.
Everything obammy has done regarding foreign policy has had a negative effect on Christians and Christian values. True for domestic policy too.
The goal is to slowly throttle Christianity, so slowly that there is no pushback. When the religion of Christ is considered a fringe cult, then the constitution can be changed to make Islam the state religion and the next caliphate will start here, in North America.
There is not a chance Russia will accept a Ukraine in NATO. That would be a red line. Nor will it accept reprisals against the Russian-speaking east.
But since this is a revolution in Western Ukraine, radicals emboldened by an easy victory have nowhere to stop. And if they don’t stop - tragedy is bound to happen.
And Russia is not Serbia in 1992 and Europe has no interest in becoming entangled in a war with Russia. Russians see the Ukraine as their motherland and they do not like the belligerent voices coming out of Kiev.
But neither the mainstream opposition nor the now deposed Yanukovych government are in charge of the fast-moving events in that country.
The black hand serbs that shot the archdue ferdinand were pissed that ferdinand has sold them out to the turks. Ferdinand enjoyed lucrative business interests with the Turks and also used them as a counter balance to control the orthodox serbs.Always the same old story - sell out the Christians for $$$ from moslems. Everyone does it.
The Clintons bombed serbia and reduced the Christian serbs to serfs within their own country. You can bet that the millions of $$ received by the CLinton Foundation are from moslem interests. Corruption at the top has always gone against Christian interests in favor of the Moslems. No one teaches the religious underpinnigs of WW1. But facts are there for all to see.
Worldwide socialism is on the move due in no small part to the interventionist policies of the United States.
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