Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Why the eruption in Kiev could set off a tsunami that will engulf us all...
The London Daily Mail ^ | February 22, 2014 | Mark Almond

Posted on 02/23/2014 12:29:40 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Television pictures of revolutions can make them seem like a spectator sport.

Having Vitali Klitschko, the world heavyweight boxing champion, playing a starring role in the events in Kiev reinforces that impression.

But the implosion of the Ukrainian state in the last 48 hours is a political earthquake.

Chaos in Kiev could set off a tsunami that will toss Western Europe from its moorings too.

It is a mistake to think we are watching from a safe distance.

Maybe Ukraine is as foreign to the British people today as it was when an obscure crisis on its southern coast in Queen Victoria’s reign became the Crimean War.

But not since the 1850s has this country come so close to colliding with Russia.

Ukraine sits on the fault line dividing Eastern Europe between pro-Western and pro-Russian views. Her people are split over attitudes to the old imperial capital, Moscow.

That divide is now opening up as pro-Russian districts in the East such as Kharkov and Crimea refuse to accept the overthrow of President Viktor Yanukovych celebrated in Kiev.

Civil war would be a tragedy for Ukraine’s people. But what makes the crisis so dangerous is the international dimension.

Since the collapse of Communism in 1991, the US and its European allies have seen keeping Ukraine independent of Russia as a key result of victory in the Cold War.

For Russians, losing Ukraine was a huge blow....

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Russia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: crimea; eudeal; europe; europeanunion; fino; ibtz; markalmond; nato; ntsa; pootypoot; putin; russia; russianoccupation; ukraine; ukrainecrisis; ukrainehistory; ukraineunrest; unitedkingdom; viktoryanukovich
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-128 next last

1 posted on 02/23/2014 12:29:41 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

The author sounds like a drama queen. Nothing imploded. They ejected an elected official for corruption, and are attempting to regain the rule of law, instead of that of a de-facto dictator.


2 posted on 02/23/2014 12:36:21 AM PST by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hmmmm.....


3 posted on 02/23/2014 12:41:13 AM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I do not see it going outside of the OLD Soviet Union, or the western boarder.


4 posted on 02/23/2014 12:43:15 AM PST by AlexW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AlexW

>>I do not see it going outside of the OLD Soviet Union, or the western boarder.<<

True, not that much. On the other hand there are numerous pipelines in Ukraine, feeding Europe with Russian oil and gas.


5 posted on 02/23/2014 12:47:55 AM PST by cunning_fish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: AlexW

Who thought that the assassination of a relatively minor Hapsburg would start a major world war?


7 posted on 02/23/2014 12:53:54 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Southack

Bought more canned meat. Doing some small stuff; which is better than nothing, I suppose. Finding ammo here and there.


8 posted on 02/23/2014 12:54:55 AM PST by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

Every corrupt government, including ours, should be paying close attention to all of these events.


9 posted on 02/23/2014 12:57:32 AM PST by Vince Ferrer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cunning_fish

“On the other hand there are numerous pipelines in Ukraine, feeding Europe”
________________________________________________
Yes, I lived at the Slovnaft refinery in Bratislava, Slovakia,
2006 to Jan. 2009.
I do not know as a fact, but I assume that crude came through the Ukraine “Druzhba” pipeline to that refinery.


10 posted on 02/23/2014 1:01:48 AM PST by AlexW
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar
They ejected an elected official for corruption, and are attempting to regain the rule of law, instead of that of a de-facto dictator.

Would that we did the same.

11 posted on 02/23/2014 1:03:42 AM PST by cynwoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Southack

One of those ships ran aground.


12 posted on 02/23/2014 1:06:59 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar

“The author sounds like a drama queen. Nothing imploded. They ejected an elected official for corruption, and are attempting to regain the rule of law”

The point is that democracy or majority rule can quickly devolve into something really ugly like the majority nazis and the minority jews.

I think Venezuela actually elected Chavez and his successor.
We really did elect Obama. And the people of Zimbabwe really did elect Mugabe.

And in a closely divided country, one minute you are in the majority, the next minute you are in the minority. One minute you are winning and the next you are losing.


13 posted on 02/23/2014 1:11:00 AM PST by staytrue
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet
And now almost exactly 100 years on it continues.

Whowuddathunkit.


14 posted on 02/23/2014 1:15:17 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think what is happening in the Ukraine is no more then the re-democratization of the country. The lefties will try to paint it as a socialist up rising which would be a wet dream for anyone imagining a people’s revolution. The securing of parliament, government buildings and the expected return to elections by May signal to me it was a legitimate takeover after the leader no longer reflected the will and aspirations of the people and who broke the law in doing so. Remind us of anyone?


15 posted on 02/23/2014 1:15:24 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: melsec

tearing down the Lenin statues should be a clue for the lefties


16 posted on 02/23/2014 1:16:33 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

I tend to agree with the Hapsburg analogy. Course, it doesn’t help that from 1905 on....the Kaiser was fully developing his war strategy and this merely served as a trigger to run his ‘short-term war’. All the way through the end of 1914....the top level of the German government felt it’d all be over by the summer of 1915, and it would be chiefly mounted against Russia. They guessed wrong on almost every single detail.


17 posted on 02/23/2014 1:18:06 AM PST by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

And they need a clue but they are great at ignoring stuff like that!


18 posted on 02/23/2014 1:22:18 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar

it’s still playing out.


19 posted on 02/23/2014 1:24:19 AM PST by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: melsec

If they burned a pile of the Communist Manifesto maybe the DUmmies would notice?


20 posted on 02/23/2014 1:25:25 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

The irony and contradictions of this conflict threaten to engulf history books

Former communist entity and superpower commie big brother

Now arguably less leftist than the euroweenies trying to usurp Russia’s in house neighbor

Western media...progressives or neocons all....not much difference on foreign policy really

Laud these Euromaidans as folk heroes

But if one looks who they really are and who’s behind them....Soros....US state dept.....western leftists

And that they are seriously armed

You realize once again this is no “spring” and our media and govt are idiots

Russia offers sweetheart deal but we push for Euro Union crap and who’s more lefty

Putin or Euro Union

Now the Ukraine will divide but they can’t split the pipeline so I see full scale war coming and Brussels will clamor for treating Russians like Serbs

But Russians are a lot bigger and I don’t blame them for wanting Ukraine to stay in the fold

This will likely end poorly and our govt.... and media will have helped screw it up

One calls human rights ...the other nation building

They are enamored with the partially victorious rebels as freedom fighters or....lord is the west poorly led


21 posted on 02/23/2014 1:33:53 AM PST by wardaddy (Bus to Shreveport... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYF682WYRtw&feature=youtube_gdata_)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar

The danger here, IMHO, is if Putin decided to send Russian troops into the Ukraine, under the guise of sending them south to “protect” the big Russian naval base..


22 posted on 02/23/2014 1:36:26 AM PST by ken5050 ("One useless man is a shame, two are a law firm, three or more are a Congress".. John Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy

People have no idea. We haven’t been in this much danger of the balloon going up since the Cuban Missile Crisis.


23 posted on 02/23/2014 1:41:12 AM PST by Southack (The one thing preppers need from the 1st World? http://tinyurl.com/ktfwljc .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: cunning_fish
True, not that much. On the other hand there are numerous pipelines in Ukraine, feeding Europe with Russian oil and gas.

I agree with you. Geopolotics often is based on economics. Gasaprom is driving the Russian position. If we had a true representative in the WH, we would be excellerating the CNG conversion of the refinery in Philadelphia, and pipelines for Marcella Gas in Pennsylvania. Secondly, we would be supporting and defending the Israel and Cyprus gas developement.

This alone would benefit both the US and Europe by undercutting Gazaprom rates by at least 50%. I always first follow the money before nationalism. Russia will not go easy when the primary source of foreign exchange is disrupted.
24 posted on 02/23/2014 1:45:39 AM PST by PA Engineer (Liberate America from the Occupation Media.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Southack

Its comin’......


25 posted on 02/23/2014 1:50:50 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
Putin or Euro Union

There's the rub. I think the EU is every bit as evil as Russia. In fact, I think the Russian people have a deep yearning for capitalism and freedom, whereas Europeans seen hooked on dependent socialism.


26 posted on 02/23/2014 1:58:49 AM PST by 867V309 (Obammy = LIAR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Southack

“People have no idea. We haven’t been in this much danger of the balloon going up since the Cuban Missile Crisis.”

But this time we have a jerk for a leader.


27 posted on 02/23/2014 2:04:01 AM PST by Beowulf9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Who thought that the assassination of a relatively minor Hapsburg would start a major world war?”

yes, that’s always the thing, isn’t it?

I’ve never made a serious study of WWI, but I’ve read enough about it to conclude that it is unlikely I’ll ever understand it.

And it was the end, the very end of the world as it had been (with minor erruptions like the American and French revolutions) for hundreds if not thousands of years.

In a way we may still be living in its upheaval.

So, yes, while I don’t think it’s likely that what’s happening in Ukraine will affect us, I wouldn’t rule it out.


28 posted on 02/23/2014 2:04:26 AM PST by jocon307
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Beowulf9

“People have no idea. We haven’t been in this much danger of the balloon going up since the Cuban Missile Crisis.”

But this time we have a jerk for a leader.

Do you really think Obammy is calling the shots?


29 posted on 02/23/2014 2:11:57 AM PST by 867V309 (Obammy = LIAR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: 867V309

“Do you really think Obammy is calling the shots?”

Not if it’s not on his teleprompter.


30 posted on 02/23/2014 2:14:50 AM PST by Beowulf9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

Every corrupt government especially ours should pay attention


31 posted on 02/23/2014 2:36:06 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: 867V309

You would be wrong. I have a very good friend who is Russian & lives near Moscow. A large portion of the population want things back the way they were before the wall fell & ripped apart their country. But they realize that Putin is their best option. Spend some time on Russian blogs (via Google translate) & you will see the truth.


32 posted on 02/23/2014 2:50:14 AM PST by ResisTyr ("Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God " ~Thomas Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: All

Of course, no one thought about siding w Ukraine until Russia started banning Homosexual activity....all this “save Ukraine” is just the Gay Rights folks looking for another way to whine about Russia “not being gay”.

You saw none of these articles on Ukraine until after Russia passed its law...and you have a lot of leftist folks on here siding w liberal media, EU, Soros, Obama, on Ukraine


34 posted on 02/23/2014 2:52:47 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (Diversity is just racism against white folks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Southack

It IS chilling when we consider that the people of Ukraine want closer ties with the EU and Nuland is saying .... the EU. Is she perhaps voicing support for Putin?


35 posted on 02/23/2014 2:58:09 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy

You get what’s going on in Ukraine...

Scary is a lot of folks on here support the liberals overthrowing a lawfully elected govt....and a lot of folks supporting the US liberal media version of everything.


36 posted on 02/23/2014 2:58:35 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (Diversity is just racism against white folks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: ResisTyr
A large portion of the population want things back the way they were before the wall fell

As large a portion as the socialists in the EU? And I doubt the old USSR satellite countries yearn for communism/socialism.


37 posted on 02/23/2014 3:02:53 AM PST by 867V309 (Obammy = LIAR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Enterprise

Or...voicing George Soros frustration with the EU not moving fast enough...

Obama supports the EU/Soros/Liberal Globalist in Ukraine


38 posted on 02/23/2014 3:03:27 AM PST by SeminoleCounty (Diversity is just racism against white folks)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: tired&retired
"Le Monde newspaper has labeled the familiarity with which she referred to the leaders of the Ukrainian opposition (”Yats” for Arseniy Yatsenyuk, “Klitsch” for Vitali Klitschko) as clumsiness and even arrogance."

Pretty much describes the Obama Administration from top to bottom.

39 posted on 02/23/2014 3:06:10 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: SeminoleCounty

I get your point. Nuland could be frustrated that the EU and Ukraine are not yet joined, for lack of a better word. It’s going to take me a while to fully understand this situation.


40 posted on 02/23/2014 3:11:00 AM PST by Enterprise ("Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: SeminoleCounty

Lawfully elected government???

One can say that about Hitler too. The fact is Viktor Yanukovych and his thugs stole money by the billions, imprisoned the main opposition leader, and enforced an entire culture of corruption. Even many his powerbase in the Eastern Ukraine turned against the SOB.


41 posted on 02/23/2014 3:11:33 AM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: SpaceBar

British Russophobia.


42 posted on 02/23/2014 3:14:33 AM PST by MarMema ("If Americans really wanted Obamacare, you wouldn't need a law to make them buy it." Ted Cruz)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: F15Eagle

i am with you. i keep get “Nugged”,
EOM list antibiotics ,seeds, gas and rechargable batteries.
this month pepper spray stick matches lots of canned milk macaroni and soup.

ps i just opened 2012 self canned 2012 beef stew hmm hm good.

22s on orde4 since nov. nada.


43 posted on 02/23/2014 3:28:49 AM PST by Donnafrflorida (Thru HIM all things are possible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: PA Engineer

Our representative in the White House is representing his fellow moslems in their push to build a competing pipeline to feed Europe. Gazprom is making money and the Moslems want to secure new cash-flows by putting in a pipeline. Russia sees USA hand in hand with the Moslem Brotherhood. We blew up Libya, created an Arab Spring in Egypt and have billions of dollars funneled to Ukraine for democritization. Read about Open Society Foundations OWNED BY SOROS. A non paranoid observer would view this not as east vs west but as Christianity vs moselms. Russia is going through a deep religious revival with evangelicals as the wild card.


44 posted on 02/23/2014 3:30:06 AM PST by x_plus_one (The harvest is great but the workers are few. Salman Rushdie is still in hiding.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: pepsionice
The Imperial German war plan, the von Schliefen plan, had to do with the centuries long central European fear of fighting a two front war. The alliance between France and Russia which occurred after the departure of Bismarck, only made those fears in Germany more acute. The French bitterness over there humiliating defeat in the Franco-Prussian war and the loss of Alsace Lorraine led them to a very aggressive diplomatic posture respecting Germany. The Russian bear had always coveted a warm water port on the Black See and was ceaselessly intriguing in the Balkans. The Russian aggressiveness and intrusiveness into the Balkans was rightly regarded by the Habsburgs and the Hohenzollerens as a threat.

Germany knew that it must avoid a prolonged two front war and its war plans were designed to quickly knock out France so it could turn its full might against Russia. That plan narrowly failed but the Germans were not alone in their hope, if not their belief, that a short war was to be expected. Every single major belligerent, France, Austria, and England, believed almost universally that a short war would ensue.

Indeed, there were very few who thought otherwise except a Pole civilian, a businessman, who wrote presciently about the extent and nature of the first world war but generally the heads of state, the diplomats, and for the most part, the generals all believed that the war would be short, won by a preponderance of force brought first to bear.

War guilt for the First World War cannot exclusively be placed on German hands. The Serbs condoned terrorism to achieve their ends of a greater separatist Serbia. The Austrians wanted a quick and brutal war to discipline the Serbs and preserve the Empire. The Germans wanted a place of primacy which their population and economy had earned and, if a war were to be fought with France and Russia, Germany wanted to fight it on its terms. France wanted to avenge 1871, regain Alsace Lorraine, and humiliate Germany. England entered the war ostensibly to rescue beleaguered Belgium but also because it had a centuries old policy of aligning itself against the greatest continental power to preserve a so-called balance of power. England's intervention into the war guaranteed its spread into a world war.

Vladimir Putin should be seen as a reversion to Stalin, Trotsky, Lenin, and, yes, Ivan the Terrible. Ukraine was once part of Poland and even parts of it belonged to Prussia. These quarrels are ancient but the belligerence is now exclusively on one side, Russia. It is not fair to say that all of the guilt for The First World War is exclusively on the side of The Central Powers. I do not mean to intimate that you have placed blame exclusively on the Kaiser, I merely want to state my version.


45 posted on 02/23/2014 3:37:38 AM PST by nathanbedford ("Attack, repeat, attack!" Bull Halsey)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: x_plus_one

Everything obammy has done regarding foreign policy has had a negative effect on Christians and Christian values. True for domestic policy too.


46 posted on 02/23/2014 3:45:43 AM PST by 867V309 (Obammy = LIAR)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: 867V309

The goal is to slowly throttle Christianity, so slowly that there is no pushback. When the religion of Christ is considered a fringe cult, then the constitution can be changed to make Islam the state religion and the next caliphate will start here, in North America.


47 posted on 02/23/2014 3:48:09 AM PST by x_plus_one (The harvest is great but the workers are few. Salman Rushdie is still in hiding.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: 2ndDivisionVet

There is not a chance Russia will accept a Ukraine in NATO. That would be a red line. Nor will it accept reprisals against the Russian-speaking east.

But since this is a revolution in Western Ukraine, radicals emboldened by an easy victory have nowhere to stop. And if they don’t stop - tragedy is bound to happen.

And Russia is not Serbia in 1992 and Europe has no interest in becoming entangled in a war with Russia. Russians see the Ukraine as their motherland and they do not like the belligerent voices coming out of Kiev.

But neither the mainstream opposition nor the now deposed Yanukovych government are in charge of the fast-moving events in that country.


48 posted on 02/23/2014 3:49:20 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: nathanbedford
Have you noticed all those Christians praying on TV in Kiev at the Euruomaidan Revolution? And there are so many Moslems praying here, in North America and in Europe in our schools and comomunity centers. Sort of a culture war and religious thing, no less.

The black hand serbs that shot the archdue ferdinand were pissed that ferdinand has sold them out to the turks. Ferdinand enjoyed lucrative business interests with the Turks and also used them as a counter balance to control the orthodox serbs.Always the same old story - sell out the Christians for $$$ from moslems. Everyone does it.

The Clintons bombed serbia and reduced the Christian serbs to serfs within their own country. You can bet that the millions of $$ received by the CLinton Foundation are from moslem interests. Corruption at the top has always gone against Christian interests in favor of the Moslems. No one teaches the religious underpinnigs of WW1. But facts are there for all to see.

49 posted on 02/23/2014 3:56:18 AM PST by x_plus_one (The harvest is great but the workers are few. Salman Rushdie is still in hiding.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy
Nice rant.

Worldwide socialism is on the move due in no small part to the interventionist policies of the United States.

50 posted on 02/23/2014 3:57:15 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-128 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson