Skip to comments.Purity or Strategy: The Debate We Need To Have: Would you rather put up with a RINO, or a Democrat?
Posted on 02/23/2014 11:43:17 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Last week, there was one of those mommy-and-daddy-are-fighting moments on Fox News as two powerhouse conservatives debated one of the most important issues facing the right. In one corner, was the dagger-sharp and stunningly beautiful and did I mention beautiful Ann Coulter. In the other corner, was the valiant, good-hearted and, you know, perfectly presentable in his own way Sean Hannity. No one can doubt either the patriotism or the fearlessness of these two. You may sometimes disagree with one or the other, that’s fine, but it seems undeniable that both have the good of the country first and foremost in their minds. Plus Ann’s really attractive.
You can watch the video to hear the whole thing but the gist is this. Ann thinks we have to stop “shysters” who pretend to represent the Tea Party from luring us into endless primaries against “establishment” Republicans. The thinking behind this (as I’ve heard her say elsewhere) is that there is only so much campaign money to go around and it needs to be focused wholly on defeating Democrats, winning a Republican majority in both houses and using that majority to “repeal Obamacare, repeal Obamacare, repeal Obamacare.”
Sean took a more purist Tea Party line, saying there are some Republicans who “should be defeated,” and endorsing the idea that we should primary the RINOs where we can and my words here not his we should end the civil war within the Republican Party by winning it for the true conservatives.
Just to let you know where I stand emotionally, here’s a true story. The first time I made a speech before a Tea Party crowd, I felt as if I were floating two feet off the ground. I respected, admired and agreed with the Tea Partiers so completely, that my heart rose up and I began to believe that despite the Obama debacle, the country would ultimately be fine. As I was leaving the rally, I got a call from a friend asking me to come by for a drink with a couple of the highest-ranking Republicans in Washington. It was me and them, having a glass together, eye to eye. By the time I left that gathering, I was so depressed by the establishment GOP’s blindness and philosophical corruption I could barely see straight. I phoned Andrew Breitbart for moral support. “I’ve just had a drink with [blank] and [blank],” I began. And he responded immediately, “Are they ***holes or what?”
All my sympathies, in other words, are with the Tea Party. And I would truly love to see the RINOs skewered on their own horns.
And yet… In general, Tea Party candidates tend to do well in congressional races where small, homogenous districts are in play. In Senate races where you need votes across an entire state, a primary victory for someone like Christine O’Donnell or Todd Akin may briefly fill the conservative heart with joy, but the loss of a Senate seat that could have been won is simply too high a price to pay for that momentary triumph.
We need to talk this out with good sense and without pompous ranting. Politics is the art of the possible. Writing belligerently purist articles, blog posts or comments is relatively easy. Winning elections is hard. Barack Obama is one of the most destructive presidents this country has ever seen, but a talented politician. If stopping him in his tracks requires stomaching some RINOs here and there, it seems a no brainer: It must be done. Ann may have put her case a little too forcefully in the debate above (she’s not exactly given to dithering!), but surely she’s right in the general principle that strategy and victory have to come before purity.
I’d rather put up with frustrating RINOs than continue in the minority with our country under attack from within. But let me know what you think.
And I say we have to stop shysters who pretend to represent the GOP.
Work like hell to defeat the RINOs in the primaries. But I won’t shed a tear if they get defeated in the general either. They’re nothing but turncoats anyway who will cost us dearly in the end.
You stand on principle, even if you stand alone.
There is a Great Judge who presides over all peoples and nations - and sacrificing principles for expedience betrays not only those principles - but the Creator who mandates His people abide by them.
Socialism, Marxism, Fascism, RINO-ism - are all tools of the Adversary - who HATES the principles of individual liberty, freedom and responsibility.
You do not compromise principles with ideas anathema to your foundations and God-ordained rights.
Something the ‘art of the possible’ people lecture us that we need to do in order to ‘win’ elections.
There is NO WINNING elections after Communists and Marxists achieve the highest offices of power in a nation.
With a demonrat you know what to expect from get go, with a RINO you never know when they will go full on Benedict Arnold.
NO we don’t want the liberal Willard...
Ann and Sean, don’t bother to pimp him...
Pick a few ‘purple’ district House members and run a third party candidate against them if they win their primaries.
Just a few.
It will scare the House RINOs into line.
In the Senate I guess we’ll have to stick to primarying the RINOs unless there is a very exceptional third party candidate.
If it wasn’t for Harry’s new anti-filibuster rules we could be stricter (and that’s why I don’t think the RINOs really minded the new filibustering tules).
And yet....there's the rub, folks.... there it is in all its Vichy glory. I guess the author should give Thomas Sowell a call and they can swap columns. Just damn.
RINO by a hair, but it also matters which RINO (some are more to be influenced by Conservatives than Democrats, some are not).
Tom Coburn=a conservative influenced RINO, John McCain=Obama/Hillary Lite.
So the first guy and his type (yes), the second and his type (no).
Here we go again.
Do we want the enemy in our tent?
RE: Here we go again.
Of course, the issue will always be there... especially now and 2016.
Do you vote for purity? Or the lesser of the two evils?
I will vote for conservatives
How come those who want to vote the “lesser of 2 evils” will throw a candidate under the wrong for a single dumb comment but a career of undermining conservatism is fine.
I want to win elections. You fight with the army you have. Many here want to purge our ranks then hurl ourselves on Valerie Jarrett’s bayonets while she gleefully twists the blade.
What kind of words do we have to use to get through to them?
RINOs doesn’t work - it just slides off them like water off a ducks back.
They use every Roget’s Thesaurus word that can be imagined for ‘settling’ but it still ends up that. Lowering standards, lowered expectations, appeasing, relenting. Or the great words - REALIST and PRAGMATIC... But they’re all still words for the same doggone thing. Capitulation.
Where are the words like ‘standards’, ‘promises’ and ‘principles’?
Nowhere. All we get are more and more ooga-booga “you’ll get a Democrat if you don’t vote Establishment.”
I'll go one further, and say DO NOT vote for a RINO in the general, even if it means the Dem/Liberal wins. If one supports the RINO, because they are the "lesser of two evils" in the general election, then one is doing nothing but continuing to send the message that it's OK for the GOPe to put forward liberal Republicans for election and liberal polices in office.
I will not vote ever again for a known RINO. I voted for McCain because he brought on Sarah Palin, but never again. A RINO is worse then a Democrat, because a democrat isn’t being a hypocrite about what they want. We don’t win elections when RINOs get in.
Don't Be a Krony!
The RINO’s are the ones who demand purity more than anyone. Oh No, that candidate is right on the issues but he said something dumb in a debate, “UNDER THAT BUS we need to vote RINO instead”
We WON the election in 2000....got a House and a Senate to go along with the Executive....what did we get besides the TSA and DHS and other liberal wet dreams?
We WON the House in 2010.....what did we get?
This ideological purity argument is getting old, and weak. We will always have disagreements with our political representatives, but those we have representing us now are losers. They don’t have a creative, or politically tactical idea in their heads. The communists are running over this country, and the battle cry from our side is, “Wait for the next fight!” They keep arguing they can’t win the fight, but one thing you can be sure of, you lose 100% of the fights you run away from. Look at how much press Cruz is getting now. His opinions are in the news as much as Obama’s. Why? Because he stood for principle and fought. Win or lose, people respect that. They don’t respect cowards, and we need to purge our party of cowards.
It happened in Kansas today, a candidate told a tasteless joke on Facebook or something. They declare him toast and say we need to re-elect the RINO.
I guess the guy wasn’t “pure” enough for them.
A problem with Ann Counter’s and the author’s reasoning is that it doesn’t do any good to elect Republicans if they vote as Democrats once they’re in the House or Senate. We could have R majorities in both houses, but they’re not going to vote to repeal Obamacare if enough of the Republicans are saying to themselves, “Yeah, some people are really zealous about this ... but honestly, it doesn’t affect me that much personally. What’s the big deal?”
1) You do not have to worry about being stabbed in the back, because you will never let him get behind you.
2) If the Socialist DemoRat has replaced a RINO or GOP-E shill, that RINO/GOP-E collaborator is now useless to the Socialist DemoRats, and you know what they do to those useless to them.
3) The RINO and GOP-E fundraisers have less ability to fund raise for the RINO GOP-E as they can't deliver favors.
My wife and I are putting hundreds of dollars into conservative primary candidates across the country. She’s been attending school and isn’t working, but we both believe the money is worth it.
A RINO can never be relied upon for any given vote; however, they will generally vote conservative more often than a Democrat.
When ever we can tilt the election to the most conservative candidate possible, we win. Primaries are the absolute best place to stack the deck in our favor.
Kick out the dead weight to put the most conservative likely winner in, every possible chance!
We don’t need to discuss the choice right now, between the GOP-e, and the democrats.
Now is when the candidates start being selected.
We need the TEA PARTY candidates to be the ones selected, to run against the democrats.
Considering Ann’s actions in the Romney fiasco she is the LAST person I’d listen to when it comes to “Shysters’.
Because she contributed mightily to our current problem with her Kerry style flip flop. And now we are to believe she is an authority? Sure. On switching teams before the big game starts...
” Politics is the art of the possible. Writing belligerently purist articles, blog posts or comments is relatively easy. “
Politics is WAR. Either we support Small G’ment or we go the way of Argentine and Venezuela.
Voting for RINOs is the same as voting for any other Tyrant
When Denny Hastert, Tom Delay and W were passing 2000 page porkfest bills I was one of a few posters on this forum outraged. Many were basking on Serenity Island. Now we have a House and speaker....Bonieir. ..much more conservative then Hastert but everyone is calling for his head. Lame and hypocritical.
I, for one, am CERTAINLY not going to be one here on FR that is willing to openly and affirmatively discuss how I am ready to throw way all my constitutional principles for the sake of electing ANY Republican simply because he/she seems better than a Democrat.
My experience tells me that we have too many Vichy Republicans already who are actually worse than Democrats. They waste our time, our money and our votes and they actively collude with one another to give my grand daughters’ freedoms away.
Stay strong. Stay resolute. And don’t ‘settle for the lesser of two evils’. We can do better if we don’t give up even before we fight.
You can bark that stuff up another tree. I’m not interested in equivocation of why you’d vote for a RINO.
“Stay strong. Stay resolute. And dont settle for the lesser of two evils. We can do better if we dont give up even before we fight.”
It’s really that simple.
Let's be really clear about a few things here.
1. We now know that O'Donnell was victimized by the IRS scandal. We don't know how she would have turned out in a fair election.
2. Akin and Mourdock were entrapped by a gotcha question on rape and abortion. True, we need to be sure that candidates are TRAINED to expect, recognize, and then deflect these traps when they are being set - because they will be set up - but these should not be held up as examples of what happens when a Tea Party candidate wins a primary.
3. "Establishment" Republicans should not run from candidates when they stumble over MSM tripwires. They should learn to circle the wagons the way that Democrats do.
4. The problem in 2012 was not the Senate candidates, it was the lack of a coordinated strategy by Senate leadership. The fault lies squarely on Mitch McConnell. Prior to the 2012 convention, Republicans were winning 7 Senate seats, but McConnell was absent. By the time November came around, they lost 2 seats. No leadership was visible at all during the Senate campaigns. No attempt was made to nationalize the Senate races.
5. No changes to candidates will matter if the leadership in the Senate is replaced, modernized, and made younger. The current leadership is tired, out of ideas, and beaten down into submission by the MSM.
"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. -- John Quincy Adams
WoW.. this was from Feb 2014... I’m astounded at Klavans BLINDNESS..
Normally I agree with ALL his wit and snark.... and sometimes actual wisdom...
Amazing that one such as this could NOW be so completely BLIND..
Voting indeed DIED Nov. 2012... the poll booths have been breached.. contaminated.. KLAVAN MISSED IT!.. jeese..
Boner and McConnell are doing “Weekend at Bernies” with freedom in Congress..
And not all precincts are compromised JUST MOST ARE..
Especially in blue/purple States but not only there ... sometimes in red places as well..
Even republicans primarys were effected by this corruption.. (AND will be)..
I guess ADMITTING this sends the willys down all true patroits and conservatives BACKs..
Don’t blame them either.. starting to look like ONLY a Civil War will set things right..
All the blood and guts in THAT conflagration would make a strongman balk..
I fear it will become very nasty soon... Ukraine and Venezuela are just “tells”..
A full fledged “underground” is needed... maybe already is or is being martialed NOW..
I have gotten to the point that I will vote for a dem over a rino.
Its time to collapse it and remove it.
No difference between the two.
From what I have seen the enemy has been in our tent for quite a while. I’d rather see an honest enemy than a smiling traitor.
Yup. One of the reasons we can’t form a cohesive unit on this is that there are those who freely spread the GOPe Kool Aid with no repercussion.
We ALL stand for something or not. Time we all man the hell up and choose what side we’re on. RINO or Conservative. Shouldn’t be too hard.
You got that right. Voting in RINOs gave us what we have today. How many RINOs voted for or supported defunding ObamaCare? How may RINOs voted against raising the mega trillion national debt? How many RINOs support our tea party efforts? Any RINO who supports the GOP-e war on the tea party must be voted OUT!! He is our enemy as surely as any democrat.
Really you have any posts going after Hastert ir Delay for being RINO’s? Search mine and you’ll find plenty. I ask again the Republican party is much more conservative now then it was under W. So why the pass then and all the cautewalling now?
Purity. I'll never vote for evil, period.
I’m not ready to actually vote for a Democrat, but I am certainly willing to be silent on the matter (i.e., cast a vote for neither).
In my lifetime, I can only think of two Democrats for whom I’d cast a vote now - maybe. One was Congressman Larry McDonald, and the other was Zell Miller. But I voted for neither at the time.
We have to remember that in any election year when senate seats are up for grabs, typically only about 10 of them are going to be competitive.
The MSM can apply tremendous resources to attack candidates in these. What is depressing is when the Dems reveal their strategy (via journ-0-lists), Limbaugh talks about it for days on end, and these upstart challengers get suckered into making what is effectively a Democrat campaign commercial.
What strategy is it to vote for candidates that are no different from the Rats?
Are you blind or lying? There are about 5 solid conservatives in office right now. The rest Just voted in a blank check that dwarfs anything Bush era did by 10 orders of magnitude.
To start with.
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