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Ukraine Crisis: Russia Brands New Leaders "Mutineers" (We All Knew This Was Coming Alert)
BBC News ^ | 2/24/2014 | BBC News

Posted on 02/24/2014 8:12:05 AM PST by goldstategop

Mr Medvedev, quoted by Russian news agencies, suggested that Western countries that accepted Ukraine's new authorities were mistaken.

"Strictly speaking, there is no-one for us to communicate with there today," he said.

"The legitimacy of a whole number of organs of power that function there raises great doubts.

"Some of our foreign, Western partners think otherwise. This is some kind of aberration of perception when people call legitimate what is essentially the result of an armed mutiny."

He added: "We do not understand what is going on there. There is a real threat to our interests and to the lives of our citizens."

....

However, Russia's foreign ministry also issued a strongly worded statement saying a "forced change of power" was taking place in Ukraine and that interim authorities were using "terrorist methods" to pressure dissenters in regions including Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: crisis; maidan; russia; ukraine; ukrainecrisis
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Russia's reaction was harsh - and is also a sharp warning to the putschists in Kiev that Russia will not hesitate to take all the necessary steps to protect its interests and the lives of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine - whose language and cultural rights have already been rolled back by the new authorities. They should be under no illusions as to where Russia stands.
1 posted on 02/24/2014 8:12:05 AM PST by goldstategop
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To: goldstategop

Eff Russia— if she tries directly intervening, the bear will be biting off a lot more than it can chew.


2 posted on 02/24/2014 8:17:48 AM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: pierrem15

Russia probably won’t intervene directly, but she will probably stoke unrest in Crimea and the South East to achieve an effective partition of Ukraine.


3 posted on 02/24/2014 8:24:48 AM PST by Truth29
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To: goldstategop

Basis my very limited understand of the factions involved in the Ukraine, it seems Putin has lost out, big-time, on his attempts to control Ukraine.


4 posted on 02/24/2014 8:25:32 AM PST by PGR88
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To: pierrem15

Russia can impose sanctions - closing the border, granting refuge to people from Crimea and the eastern Ukraine, raise the price of gas supplied to Ukraine and withdrawing the recent economic assistance package.

Russia’s leverage can bring the new regime in Kiev to its knees. The country is but a short step away from insolvency. Its new authorities have to work with Russia. Otherwise the consequences could be very unpleasant.


5 posted on 02/24/2014 8:26:29 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: PGR88

Given the continuing deterioration of the situation, its no one’s guess how things will turn out.

Maybe the new government in Kiev wants to drive the east and south of the country into Moscow’s embrace. That would suit it just fine.


6 posted on 02/24/2014 8:29:40 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop

Negotiating ploy.....They want Ukraine to cede the Crimea and the Donetsk region back to Russia in exchange for recognition.


7 posted on 02/24/2014 8:31:21 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Truth29

Agreed. The Eurasian Union won’t work without Ukraine. I can imagine a partitioned Ukraine in which the eastern half would be free to join the Customs Union Of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. I see this as the most probable outcome to the current crisis.


8 posted on 02/24/2014 8:32:19 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: dfwgator

Uh huh. And since western Ukrainians want their own country, I would think they don’t want to give Russia ANY pretext to intervene.


9 posted on 02/24/2014 8:33:48 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Truth29

Be fair, the only reason Ukraine has the Crimea is Khrushchev gave it as a “gift” to win over the Ukrainians that he ruled over, when he was Stalin’s lackey there. Of course back in the Soviet Union, it really didn’t matter whether it belonged to the Russian SFSR or the Ukrainian SSR, Moscow still called the shots, regardless.


10 posted on 02/24/2014 8:34:03 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: goldstategop
I seriously doubt Russia would flat out invade Kiev, but they very well might decide half a loaf is better than nothing and try to pull what they did (successfully) in Georgia a couple years ago. That is, to push the pro-Russian Eastern half of Ukraine into breaking away and forming a separate nation and THEN sending in Russian troops to “protect”the new nation, with the tanks rolling as far West as they can get before the world starts complaining to take a big of a chunk of land as they can for the new nation.
11 posted on 02/24/2014 8:35:54 AM PST by apillar
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To: pierrem15

So, I gather you like the Eurocrats in Brussels with their politically correct agenda of unfettered immigration from Muslim lands, multiculturalism, denigration of Europe’s Christian heritage and Christian morals, pushing of the normalization of homosexuality, censorship of errant opinion by self-censorship in the newsroom and vilification, and continuation of the “social democrat” welfare state, better than Putin’s government with its 13% flat tax, support for Christian heritage and morals, and more overt censorship of opposing opinion.

I can see why folks in the Ukraine might not want to be under Russian control or too much Russian influence (well, leaving aide the Russians who live there because Lenin, Stalin and Khrushchev moved the border between the old Imperial provinces to put lots of Russians inside the Ukrainan Soviet Socialist Republic), but why they want to be associated with the EU is a mystery to me.


12 posted on 02/24/2014 8:35:54 AM PST by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: goldstategop

I have a thin on the meaning of the Ukraining unrest other than it seems the protesters want to be further removed from the Russian orbit.

I think you will see swift and firm action from Putnin almost the minute the Olympics end.


13 posted on 02/24/2014 8:37:31 AM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: dfwgator

I agree Western Ukraians have the right to determine their own affairs and to run the country. That is a basic human right of a free people.

What they do NOT have the right to do is force their Russian-speaking compatriots to forfeit their historic ties to Russia.

If the family cannot agree on where to drive the car, a civilized divorce would be the best solution for all concerned.


14 posted on 02/24/2014 8:38:52 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
And since western Ukrainians want their own country

Well they can move back to Ukraine proper and give Western Ukraine back to Poland. Lwów Jest Polski!

15 posted on 02/24/2014 8:39:07 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: pierrem15
Eff Russia— if she tries directly intervening, the bear will be biting off a lot more than it can chew.

Who's going to stop Russia if they do roll in?

0bama? the EU? Ukrainian armed forces?

16 posted on 02/24/2014 8:39:33 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: The_Victor

Where’s Marshall Pilsudski when we need him?


17 posted on 02/24/2014 8:44:14 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: goldstategop

It was an armed rebellion. The EU signed on to a deal which has now been breached in the space of 48 hours.


18 posted on 02/24/2014 8:48:33 AM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: FReepers

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

19 posted on 02/24/2014 8:50:33 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: goldstategop

Maybe they should consult with the Czechs and Slovaks.


20 posted on 02/24/2014 8:56:27 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
Where’s Marshall Pilsudski when we need him?

I suppose someone could drag Jozef Pilsudski's corpse out of the mausoleum. He'd put up a better fight than 0bama.

21 posted on 02/24/2014 9:01:23 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
you are not making sense. Armed rebellion? huh? Rocks? burning tires? Oh, a few air rifles, and I saw a shotgun and a handgun in comparison to troops carrying real rifles, which were filmed shooting people. Those troops shot more than few people dead, wounding dozens more.

What deal did the EU "sign on to" that was breached within 48 hours? You are getting things backwards/sideways.

Please -- that kind of talk is not helping.

22 posted on 02/24/2014 9:07:53 AM PST by BlueDragon (Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.Proverbs 29:18)
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To: goldstategop

Ukraine can shut the gas pipelines transiting the country, and remove the Russians from Sevastopol in return.


23 posted on 02/24/2014 9:08:18 AM PST by Kozak ("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
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To: goldstategop

You mean like the North forced the South?


24 posted on 02/24/2014 9:09:57 AM PST by Kozak ("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
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To: The_Victor
The Ukrainians-- they are ready to die: the snipers Yanukovich deployed just pissed them off. Any direct Russian intervention would also be opposed by the Ukrainian military; or, at least large chunks of it.

The Ukrainian fleet is harbored right next to the Russian fleet at Sevastopol-- all it would take would be a couple of Ukrainian cruisers firing point blank to cause massive damage.

Russia could undoubtedly 'win' in the end, but the cost would be massive, and would also probably involve loss of access to Western markets and cash.

The bigger danger to Ukraine are 'separatists' funded by Moscow and aided under the table with weapons or Russian special forces.

25 posted on 02/24/2014 9:17:04 AM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: goldstategop
Agreed. The Eurasian Union won’t work without Ukraine. I can imagine a partitioned Ukraine in which the eastern half would be free to join the Customs Union Of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. I see this as the most probable outcome to the current crisis.

Won't happen. The eastern part of Ukraine is where the oil fields are. What does Ukraine really have? Oil, plus the pipeline access from Russia to the Black Sea.

26 posted on 02/24/2014 9:27:54 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: goldstategop
And the Russian foreign ministry said dissenters in mainly Russian-speaking regions faced suppression.

I remember when Hitler had that same problem in the Sudaten land in 1939. -Tom

27 posted on 02/24/2014 9:47:12 AM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse U.S. citizens and Americans. They are not necessarily the same. -tom)
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To: goldstategop

a great deal of the nation’s wealth resides in non-pro-Europe eastern Ukraine...For a country like Ukraine, the appeal of federalism, which divides authority between the central government and its constituent regions, is undeniable...According to Ukraine’s government statistics service, manufacturing contributes at least three times more than agriculture to the country’s gross domestic product. Thus, eastern regions generally have higher per capita GDP rates...Seven of Ukraine’s 10 largest private companies by revenue are either headquartered or maintain the majority of their operations in eastern Ukraine...

The country’s most important businessmen are embedded in the east, where their businesses make disproportionately high contributions to the Ukrainian economy and national budget. Westerners staunchly oppose federalism because they believe it would threaten their economic and security interests. Others believe it could dissolve Ukraine as a country, leaving the west weak and defenseless against the Russia-backed east. Whether or not these concerns are misplaced, federalism would in fact benefit eastern regions disproportionately by giving them more control over state revenue, aggravating the socioeconomic tensions between the regions.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-23/eu-offers-conditional-aid-ukraines-catastrophic-pre-default-economic-state


28 posted on 02/24/2014 9:59:46 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: PapaBear3625

See my post #28. Apparently the eastern half is the half that has more business and contributes more to the economy. The EU wants the entire Ukraine so that they can redistribute that wealth.


29 posted on 02/24/2014 10:02:48 AM PST by Rusty0604
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To: pierrem15
Eff Russia— if she tries directly intervening, the bear will be biting off a lot more than it can chew

How do you figure that?

30 posted on 02/24/2014 10:04:07 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Jim Noble

A country with 40 million population, most of them hostile. Millions AKAs and RPGs. And a grudge. That would not be an easy occupation.


31 posted on 02/24/2014 10:14:22 AM PST by Kozak ("Send them back your fierce defiance! Stamp upon the cursed alliance! To arms, to arms in Dixie!)
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To: Jim Noble
Putin isn't Stalin: more importantly, his instruments of repression aren't Stalin's-- how many Ukrainian civilians do you think the Russian army would have to kill? Do you think the Ukrainian army would twiddle its thumbs while the Russian army did so?

Any direct Russian invasion would be an enormous mess: and if it failed, or the Russian army revolted in the face of the atrocities it was being asked to commit, what would happen to Putin?

32 posted on 02/24/2014 10:34:46 AM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: goldstategop

Russia Brands New Leaders “Mutineers”


AND this makes Russian leaders WHAT?... Stalinitas?...

You know Stalin......... that literally murdered most of the people in Ukraine..
Some no doubt actually REMEMBER THAT..


33 posted on 02/24/2014 10:57:43 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: goldstategop

There is a real threat to our interests and to the lives of our citizens.”

Interesting use of the posessive, I thought they were
Ukranian citizens. Kinda gives the game away.


34 posted on 02/24/2014 11:05:19 AM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: goldstategop
Russia's reaction was harsh - and is also a sharp warning to the putschists in Kiev that Russia will not hesitate to take all the necessary steps to protect its interests and the lives of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine - whose language and cultural rights have already been rolled back by the new authorities.

The only part of Ukraine with a majority of ethnic Russians is the Crimean peninsula. In the rest of the country most of the Russian speaking people are ethnic Ukrainians (total 77.8% according to Wiki) whose interests aren't necessarily those of Russia.

See here for details, ethnicity-language map, and comments by "a Ukrainian-descended American software developer, based for the last two years ... in Lviv, in western Ukraine, about 300 miles from the capital, Kyiv, where the worst of the recent civil unrest has taken place".
35 posted on 02/24/2014 11:23:22 AM PST by caveat emptor (!)
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To: pierrem15

Russia wants a federal solution - or barring that, its fully prepared to aid and fund separatist forces - and can put in troops to protect the local population.

Kiev doesn’t have much choice and the country is teetering on the edge of a breakup.


36 posted on 02/24/2014 11:35:27 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: caveat emptor

They may be ethnic Ukrainians but they’re attached to the Russian and culture.

The main problem the new regime has is rolled back language and cultural rights for Russophones and in issuing an arrest warrant for Yanukovych - its signalling not reconciliation but revenge.

It looks like political retribution against the east for backing him and against Russia which backed his regime. This will not end well.

And Putin is not the kind of guy to swallow humiliation. He plays political chess better than any one else. This is by means over.


37 posted on 02/24/2014 11:40:57 AM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: pierrem15
Russia could undoubtedly 'win' in the end, but the cost would be massive, and would also probably involve loss of access to Western markets and cash.

Ukraine ground forces consist of 57,000 personnel, not all combat. They have 2 armor brigades which use the Ukrainian upgraded T-64 (686 total tanks) as their main battle tank. Most of the rest of their equipment is leftover from the Soviet era. No matter how well trained and dedicated their troops are, it's going to be a short battle.

38 posted on 02/24/2014 11:50:00 AM PST by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: The_Victor
If they decide to fight in massed formations, yes.

If Russian forces are attacked piecemeal, it's a long slog.

Plus I think you rate the Russian operational efficiency too highly: apart from a few spec ops units and some air force units, I doubt many Russian troops get much training at all.

39 posted on 02/24/2014 12:03:54 PM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: goldstategop

Russia wants another colony.


40 posted on 02/24/2014 12:05:07 PM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: goldstategop
they’re attached to the Russian and culture

"dominated by" might be more appropriate. In any event, there's no "they" "there". Read the article I linked to for some idea of the wide range of opinion/emotion.
41 posted on 02/24/2014 12:11:54 PM PST by caveat emptor (!)
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To: goldstategop
Putin will bend over and take it just like he did last time when Yanukovich was overthrown by the Orange Revolution. Ukraine is not Georgia. Putin does not need to invade to keep his naval base and he doesn't need Ukraine's pipelines because he has the North Stream going directly to Germany. Putin only poses as a defender of “ethnic Russians” when he has something to gain. The Ossetians and Abkhazians he intervened in Georgia for are not even Russian, he just gave them Russian passports and made them Russian citizens. Actual Russians in Ukraine will be sold out by the treacherous gangster Putin because he doesn't need them. Just look at Yanukovich. Was Putin able to protect him? No. Yanukovich is learning the price of being the friend of KGB Putin. He has lost everything and now he has to flee to Russia and hide from his own countrymen who will kill him if the get their hands on him. Such will be the fate of all traitors who support Neo-Soviet Russia against their own country.
42 posted on 02/24/2014 1:02:47 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

He can’t afford to get nothing out of it. I think Ukraine ceding the Crimea back to Russia is fair...considering the dubious reason it even became part of Ukraine in the first place.


43 posted on 02/24/2014 1:04:48 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
He has his naval base, so what else does he need the Crimea for? I'm telling you those Crimean "Russians" will be waiting a long time for Putin to ride in on his big white horse and save them. They will be waiting just as long as the Serbs who are still waiting for Putin to liberate Kosovo and the Syrian Christians who actually believe that Putin will protect them. People who put their hope in the psychotic mass-murderer Putin are fools.

Russia lost Crimea when they lost thair whole country to ravaging raping Bolshevik hordes (whom Putin still admires and considers the Founding Fathers of Russia.)

44 posted on 02/24/2014 1:17:39 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Their Parliament did this by the book, sure they were under a lot of pressure from the people... then again isn’t that a good thing?


45 posted on 02/24/2014 1:19:46 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: dfwgator

>>>Maybe they should consult with the Czechs and Slovaks.<<<

It won’t happen. Every major population center in Western Ukraine is practically insolvent, with the exception of Lviv, which is barely solvent. It is a norm for a Western city to leech Kiev for as much as 5 times the sum it actually made in taxes, just to maintain infrastructure.
Remember, today Ukraine doing about half as good as Mexico economically. If they are going to lose the Southeast it will turn them into Somalia. It is certainly not a plan for the West as far as they love free money.


46 posted on 02/24/2014 4:30:23 PM PST by cunning_fish
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47 posted on 02/24/2014 4:34:30 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: goldstategop
Custom Union joined Vietnam and Montenegro, quite probably Turk and Israel will join for Russia is their main trade partner. Ukraine proved as unstable for any business and too poor with obsolete and deteriorating industry and infrastructure. They always will ask money with no prospects to return them. All their authorities were, are and will be corrupt.
48 posted on 02/24/2014 5:36:54 PM PST by Cossak
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To: cunning_fish

Stop whining, your guy lost, get over it


49 posted on 02/24/2014 5:41:43 PM PST by Ivan Mazepa
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To: goldstategop
take all the necessary steps to protect its interests and the lives of Russian-speaking people in Ukraine

Russian-speaking people of Ukraine like in Kyiv who kicked Putins's stooge out?

The faster that Russians deal with reality, the less it's going to hurt later - nobody wants you or your Putin. Less Zhirinovskiy, more news was from Ukrainian new sites

50 posted on 02/24/2014 5:55:49 PM PST by Ivan Mazepa
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