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Mt. Gox Disappears From Web in New Setback
wsj ^ | 24 minutes ago

Posted on 02/25/2014 6:34:19 AM PST by BenLurkin

Embattled bitcoin exchange Mt. Gox appeared to be undergoing more convulsions, as its website became unavailable, signaling a new stage in troubles that have dented the image of the virtual currency.

(Excerpt) Read more at stream.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: bitcoin; mtgox

1 posted on 02/25/2014 6:34:19 AM PST by BenLurkin
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To: BenLurkin

Mortimer Duke, Trading Places: “Turn those machines back on! Turn those machines back onnnnnnn!”


2 posted on 02/25/2014 6:37:26 AM PST by cincinnati65
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To: BenLurkin

I read that in order to start using bitcoin you have to download and ‘initialize’ your setup which includes data on every transaction that ever occurrred

This is an incredibly bad software idea (and I write software for a living)


3 posted on 02/25/2014 6:45:07 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: BenLurkin

Mt. Gox has been dead for over a month now. They are only just now realizing it.


4 posted on 02/25/2014 6:49:36 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: Mr. K; All
I read that in order to start using bitcoin you have to download and ‘initialize’ your setup which includes data on every transaction that ever occurrred

This occurs when you create a wallet to locally store your bitcoin. However, you can technically "use" bitcoin without a wallet.

For example, you can purchase it on an exchange (or upload from a mining rig to the exchange) and then transfer it directly from the exchange to a merchant that accepts it (or sell it for cash).

The implosion of Mt. Gox is definitely going to cause a credibility hit to the other exchanges. I've been following it closely and feel I've learned a lot. It's like an accelerated lesson in the collapse of a business. At some point I'm going to need to jot down some notes about what occurred. You could probably model an entire college course around the rise and fall of Gox.
5 posted on 02/25/2014 6:59:07 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: Errant

Death of Gox ping.


6 posted on 02/25/2014 7:00:49 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: FReepers
Insure FR's Future!
Become A Monthly Donor


Click The Pic To Donate

The next donation of $50 or more gets us to 89%

7 posted on 02/25/2014 7:01:33 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: mmichaels1970

Thanks for your reply- I really do not understand it very well

I do think it is an odd software design that you need to store info on every transaction that ever occured (do you rally want everyone’s transactions sent all over the world?)

At this point I am wary that someone figured out how to make this into a giant scam, using software some inexperienced designer made.


8 posted on 02/25/2014 7:03:57 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: Mr. K
I really do not understand it very well

Neither do I. From what I've surmised, every coin is a part of a "chain" where it is linked to the coin that precedes it and the coin that follows it. Therefore, when you spend a coin, the integrity of the entire chain is verified. This constant verification is used to prevent counterfeiting the coins. One can't simply crunch some complex math and create a million counterfeit coins. They have to be recognized as within the chain to be accepted and verified as valid.

At least that's how I understand it.
9 posted on 02/25/2014 7:10:01 AM PST by mmichaels1970
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To: BenLurkin

Mt. Gox CEO Mark Karpeles holds up a commemorative Bitcoin medallion.


10 posted on 02/25/2014 7:13:11 AM PST by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: mmichaels1970

None noticed ‘cause they are all staring gleefully at the Fool’s Gold Monopoly Money they are holding.


11 posted on 02/25/2014 7:24:11 AM PST by X-spurt (CRUZ missile - armed and ready.)
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To: mmichaels1970; Mr. K

The idea of having work nodes that have the whole blockchain is basically security.

If you are running the bitcoin software and somebody else does a transaction somewhere, part of the plan is that it uses your computer and your copy of the blockchain to verify whether the transaction is real.

Right now I am re-synching Bitcoin. I tried it the first time back last April. It took over ten days to download the initial data, and I am on DSL. As part of running bitcoin, it automatically connects you to other bitcoin nodes - I am currently connected to 8 other nodes.

Theoretically, it’s a good design and would work. But the developers need to find a way where not all nodes have all the data - it gets somehow “chunked up” and distributed.


12 posted on 02/25/2014 7:31:15 AM PST by djf (OK. Well, now, lemme try to make this clear: If you LIKE your lasagna, you can KEEP your lasagna!)
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To: djf
"Theoretically, it’s a good design and would work."

That's where I will have to respectfully disagree with you.

It is not 'scalable'.

Imagine if everyone used bitcoin? With millions of people and billions of transactions would each person have to wait 10 days to download? probably closer to 100 days, using the existing design.

To me this is an example of someone not used to programming enterprise-scale applications.

13 posted on 02/25/2014 7:50:16 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: Mr. K

I agree, it’s not scalable now as it grows and grows. And that’s why I think there will end up being nodes built solely for transaction verification, and that the software will end up doing random connects for data verification/retrieval.

I understand scalability. Been a mainframe systems programmer since ‘85.
Worked with some of the biggest and bluest stuff IBM makes.


14 posted on 02/25/2014 7:59:22 AM PST by djf (OK. Well, now, lemme try to make this clear: If you LIKE your lasagna, you can KEEP your lasagna!)
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To: BenLurkin

When nothing vanishes you still have nothing.


15 posted on 02/25/2014 8:49:10 AM PST by Organic Panic
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To: Mr. K
I read that the blockchain used to mine new bitcoins is 1.5 TB in size. It increases 10x in size every 1.5 years.

That's an extinction sized blockchain in the not too distant future.

16 posted on 02/25/2014 10:01:53 AM PST by SwankyC (Democrats and Republicans agree, govt coercion is OK if it fits your idea of whats OK)
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin; nascarnation; TsonicTsunami08; SgtHooper; Ghost of SVR4; Lee N. Field; DTA; ...
Thanks mmichaels1970


Click to be Added / Removed.

17 posted on 02/25/2014 10:13:55 AM PST by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Errant

Bitcoin bites the dust...

http://www.ino.com/blog/2014/02/bitcoin-bites-the-dust/

I don’t think so. But the developers got a lot of work ahead of them...


18 posted on 02/25/2014 10:42:36 AM PST by djf (OK. Well, now, lemme try to make this clear: If you LIKE your lasagna, you can KEEP your lasagna!)
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To: Mr. K

I read that in order to start using bitcoin you have to download and ‘initialize’ your setup which includes data on every transaction that ever occurrred

This is an incredibly bad software idea (and I write software for a living)

Depends what wallet software you use. Some do use a local copy of the blockchain. I (right now) use Electrum, does not.

19 posted on 02/25/2014 11:12:36 AM PST by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: SwankyC; All
I read that the blockchain used to mine new bitcoins is 1.5 TB in size. It increases 10x in size every 1.5 years.

That's an extinction sized blockchain in the not too distant future.

I have a copy of the blockchain on my laptop, and I just recently sync'd it. The current size now is only 1.1 GB. That quite a ways from 'extinction' size...

The solution to the increasing size, if it ever becomes an issue, could simply be some kind of unalterable archiving of transactions which are only maintained for historical purposes and currently not being removed from the active blockchain data file. Having both an active file and an archival file would speed up transactions while still allowing historical records maintenance.

As for Mt. Gox, we all know it was a mighty tempting and central target for an attempt to destroy Bitcoin. I have no inside knowledge, but would assume that the CEO may have been encouraged to work with governments and bankers to accomplish in their minds, what they consider a 'kill shot' to Bitcoin and damage all Cryptocurrencies in the process or at least buy time by setting them back.

It's indeed a set back and has left many casualties. But give credit were credit is due to who really caused it. To begin with, who shut down Mt. Gox's U.S. direct banking connections? That's when the fiat transfers began in pileup in earnest. Could they have also forced Mt. Gox's CEC to become a pawn to a planned takedown at the time? Perhaps threatening him with jail time or bankruptcy if he didn't go along? Have you noticed how the authorities don't seem concerned that MT. Gox may have stolen their customer's assets?

For those of you remain supporters, don't put all of your eggs in one basket, and if you're going to stay involved, stay involved and adjust to the changing circumstances.

Take a good look at your exposure and look for ways to minimize it. Numerous, smaller, and local exchanges are much harder to take down by TPTB than a few large central ones, as well as direct exchange of good and services using Btc or Crytpo, instead of having to convert to some form of fiat as the actual medium of exchange.

Just my 0.00004 Btc worth (at the current price)...

20 posted on 02/25/2014 11:16:32 AM PST by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: djf
But the developers got a lot of work ahead of them...

Yep, See #20

21 posted on 02/25/2014 11:19:26 AM PST by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Errant

Well, as far as I understand it, a big part of the appeal of Bitcoin is that it is ALMOST impossible to hack.

The problems at Mt. Gox do not amount to a hack so much as just an outright theft of Bitcoins from some exposed wallets.

Bitcoin CAN be hacked, but you would need to control more than 50% of the computers that have a copy of the blockchain on it, and even then it would take what amounts to a massive amount of computing power to modify and then re-encode the blockchain.

This is really an opportunity in disguise and they don’t recognize it yet.

How many users (like casual cell phone users, etc) would go for an online wallet rather than a local wallet because of the blockchain data?

If bitcoin can find a way to index the blockchains good, they could let everyone have a local wallet, as long as they held part of the blockchain on their device.

You could have a gig, I could have a gig, somebody else could have two gigs, whatever it takes.
P2P verifications could be easy and speedy, especially as the linespeeds continue to increase.

If anything was found wrong or funky with somebodys copy of the blockchain, an alert could get generated and read-only blockchains could be consulted, the person with the bad data would get kicked offline.

It’s not rocket science. Just queueing theory. I could do it in BASIC or REXX if I was way, way more ambitious!


22 posted on 02/25/2014 11:46:20 AM PST by djf (OK. Well, now, lemme try to make this clear: If you LIKE your lasagna, you can KEEP your lasagna!)
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To: Lee N. Field; All

has anyone here tried ‘mining’ for bitcoins?

What’s up with that?

I have about 10 old computers at home I could dedicate full-time to that, if it actually generates money


23 posted on 02/25/2014 11:48:07 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: Mr. K

not worth it right now, it will cost you more in electric than you would make. There is still some money in mining other coins with AMD GPU’s, but not sure how long that is going to last. A R9-280 costs a $1 a day to run and currently is making about $2.50 a day mining DOGE.


24 posted on 02/25/2014 11:55:17 AM PST by ClayinVA ("Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it")
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To: djf
It’s not rocket science. Just queueing theory.

I saw where you said you were involved in programming, at least at some point. Same here. I've written business frontends accessing millions of account records, some still running after 20 years operation.

It might behoove the developers of cyrptocurrencies to take technology, centuries old, from accounting past. What I'm thinking about here is the double entry method of accounting. When a new transaction cancels out an older transaction (i.e., balances it), both entries could then be sent to an archival ledger/file and deleted from the active blockchain file. No doubt it would take a 'bit' of modification to implement, but it is a proven solution to the scalability issue. In this case, not everyone would need a copy of the archive file on their device/PC/etc.

25 posted on 02/25/2014 12:07:36 PM PST by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Errant

Well, people like you and I who have done these kinds of DB design data collection/archiving etc are aware of the problems of what to to with redundant or conflicting data.

There is a reason many of these big companies and government institutions are STILL running on mainframes using DB2/IMS, VSAM data set org, etc.

As far as I know even now, there are still no errors in the Bitcoin blockchain EXCEPT for one, when somehow a negative number got generated, and it caused some bitcoin apps to start looping.

But that was fixed by the 0.8.5 release


26 posted on 02/25/2014 12:15:12 PM PST by djf (OK. Well, now, lemme try to make this clear: If you LIKE your lasagna, you can KEEP your lasagna!)
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