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GOP’s “religious liberty” scam just died: Why Brewer’s veto is so momentous
Salon ^ | February 27, 2014 | Brian Beutler

Posted on 02/28/2014 6:54:46 AM PST by C19fan

Back in 2012, a full two years before conservatives insisted that religious freedom entailed the right to discriminate against gay people or gay spouses in both private and public workplaces, Republicans in Washington trotted out the same religious liberty line for the arguably narrower purpose of defending religious employers who wanted to be exempt from the Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate.

........................................................

It would be an infringement upon religious liberty to shutter a church that refused to marry interracial couples. But how many conservatives would go to bat for that church if the government rescinded its tax exemption? Would they argue that religious freedom entails the freedom to discriminate in otherwise unlawful ways and pay no taxes? I kind of doubt it. The same logic obviously extends to same-sex couples. And yet, if the past week proved anything it’s that many, many conservatives believe that not only is it morally acceptable for a church to refuse to marry same-sex couples, but that the only way to uphold that church’s religious freedom is to make sure it keeps its privileged tax status as well.

(Excerpt) Read more at salon.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: az2014; brewer; culturewars; gay; homosexualagenda; marriage; tax
I think Mr. Beutler is showing the playbook on the Left is going to do when churches and other congregations refuse to do gay marriages; take away their tax exempt status. This happened to Bob Jones University where their tax exempt status was taken away when it had a policy of no interracial dating.
1 posted on 02/28/2014 6:54:46 AM PST by C19fan
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To: C19fan

It was too easy for the left to defeat this law. Their “victory” is as meaningless as stonewall.


2 posted on 02/28/2014 6:57:22 AM PST by frogjerk (We are conservatives. Not libertarians, not "fiscal conservatives", not moderates)
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To: C19fan

Speaking of homosexuals:

Rink Employee May Have Fondled Feet Of More Than 200 Underage Boys

February 27, 2014 12:55 PM

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/02/27/northridge-roller-rink-employee-with-alleged-foot-fetish-arrested/


3 posted on 02/28/2014 6:58:10 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: C19fan

Anybody who does not realize that church’s will lose tax exempt status very soon are either asleep or in the ostrich with head in sand mode.
IT’s coming....we have political precedent being established and we have the Word of God.
Pay attention people the early church was persecuted by the mighty Roman Empire....none other than Nero himself was behind the beheading of Paul by linking the fire in Rome to the Chrsitians
The Obama administration is persecuting believers and it will continue to get worsse.
Freegards
LEX


4 posted on 02/28/2014 6:58:41 AM PST by lexington minuteman 1775
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

I’m curious - in what other countries do churches and religious groups have tax exempt status?


5 posted on 02/28/2014 7:01:25 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: C19fan

As a deacon, I do numerous weddings for the Church. But we are also agents of the state. If I am forced to marry same sex (or plural partners)...sorry...I will NOT marry on behalf of the state and will only do the church wedding. I’ll give up my legal status as a state agent and only do the sacrament. The church has been looking at this already and will not be forced into marrying gay couples.

I think in France the folks get married in the church then go and get a civil marriage in front of a state agent.


6 posted on 02/28/2014 7:03:07 AM PST by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: C19fan
Right - the Catholic Church is next. The best thing, I think, is for the Church to stop performing marriages all together. Then in some way bless the marriage of the Catholic at a later date.

And prepare now for giving up the preferred tax status.

I notice the satanic left never finds time to complain about GE, NFL, FB, and a host of other WEALTHY corporations that pay zilch in taxes. Could that be because they do satan's’ bidding?

7 posted on 02/28/2014 7:05:27 AM PST by Paulie (Buy local, bank local, exert your influence locally; the left will fold like a cheap suit.)
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To: lexington minuteman 1775

Actually the church should willingly throw off the exemption chains and speak loud and proud. The tax exemption was nothing more than bait to keep them quiet.


8 posted on 02/28/2014 7:06:15 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: ladyjane
I’m curious - in what other countries do churches and religious groups have tax exempt status?

Most go the route of Europe and have state-sanctioned, civil-tax-funded churches.

9 posted on 02/28/2014 7:09:11 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: C19fan
The author is saying what I have known for a long while. The goal of the left is to use the homosexual lifestyle as a weapon to end the religious freedoms guaranteed in the Constitution. The left wants to persecute Christians and force them to renounce their faith and their values.

The left do not fear libertarians, speechifying politicians, academic free marketers or moderate conservatives. The brutal Evil Empire in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe had won every confrontation with the west since 1917. What brought them down was an unemployed high school dropout named Lech Walensa and the support of Pope John Paul II.

The left hates and fears sincere religious families. These are the people who will never tolerate a Soviet style police state. These are the people who will fight fearlessly and tirelessly for their beliefs.

Our Constitution guarantees freedom of religion to Americans. I am convinced that more than anything else it is this that has made our great country strong. The goal of the left is to undermine and destroy the strong religious faith that so many Americans hold dear.

Joseph Stalin said,“America is like a healthy body and its resistance is threefold: its patriotism, its morality and its spiritual life. If we can undermine these three areas, America will collapse from within.” That is the goal of the left. It is that simple. Homosexuality is one weapon they are using to reach their evil goal.

10 posted on 02/28/2014 7:14:11 AM PST by detective
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To: cripplecreek

“Actually the church should willingly throw off the exemption chains and speak loud and proud. The tax exemption was nothing more than bait to keep them quiet.”

I couldn’t agree with you more! The ability to speak was bargained away for a few dollars.


11 posted on 02/28/2014 7:18:49 AM PST by MNGal
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To: MNGal

The Black Robe regiment encourages ditching the tax exemption and speaking openly about politics from a religious standpoint.

http://www.blackrobereg.org/

The seeds of the American revolution were sewn in the colonial churches and this is what liberals fear today.


12 posted on 02/28/2014 7:24:41 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: C19fan

Some people believe the leftists will stop once “gay marriage” is the law across the entire United States. Those people would be wrong, and the civil rights hammer will be used to crush anyone who dissents.


13 posted on 02/28/2014 7:26:02 AM PST by CitizenUSA (Sodomy and abortion: the only constitutional rights cherished by Democrats.)
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To: cripplecreek

“The seeds of the American revolution were sewn in the colonial churches and this is what liberals fear today.”

It’s unfortunate that so many of today’s churches are spouting the liberal line on social issues such as divorce, same-sex marriage, social justice, etc.. There are still a few Bible-believing/teaching churches out there, but they continue to be fewer and fewer. The church of my youth is not somewhere I would feel comfortable in today (ELCA Lutheran).


14 posted on 02/28/2014 7:30:38 AM PST by MNGal
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To: Paulie

The best thing, I think, is for the Church to stop performing marriages all together.”

The minister where I attend church has never married anyone and says he never will. A month or so ago he also said, during his teaching period, that he believes Christians and particularly ministers will be jailed for preaching the gospel before his own time on earth is finished. Looks like we are moving in that direction.


15 posted on 02/28/2014 7:34:19 AM PST by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
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To: C19fan

Governor Jan Brewer was BLACKMAILED into vetoing that law, by the sports leagues and the press!!!! PHOOEY!!!!

“Gays” are QUEERS!!!! Same sex “marriage” is NOT marriage!!!! It is a sad society in which states and localities, small businesses, and even churches can be BULLIED into supporting the poisonous, hateful, and sick “gay” agenda—by big business (including sports leagues and large convention companies), by social media, and by the government.

Way back in Arizona, businesses used to have signs that read “we reserve the right to refuse to serve anyone”. The civil rights movement killed that—fine. But “gays”, feminazis, and muslims use that opening to smash and squash our society and the Christian faith.

It is a good idea for churches to get out of the civil marriage business. First you go and get “married” before a justice of the peace. Then you have a sacramental wedding in the Church. And—by the way—especially if you’re Orthodox—you’re NOT really married until you have that sacramental wedding!!!!


16 posted on 02/28/2014 7:36:32 AM PST by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: C19fan

The we go independent and underground and meet in secret like they do in iran... because we are becoming iran.


17 posted on 02/28/2014 7:48:03 AM PST by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS! BETTER DEAD THAN RED!)
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To: C19fan

Because the Left has learned that deeply cherished Conservative values held in good stead for millennia can be quickly overturned with a threat to yank the Super Bowl.


18 posted on 02/28/2014 7:53:48 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: ThomasMore
As a deacon, I do numerous weddings for the Church. But we are also agents of the state.

This might help you:

RI Constitution
Art I, Section 3. Freedom of religion.

Whereas Almighty God hath created the mind free; and all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness; and whereas a principal object of our venerable ancestors, in their migration to this country and their settlement of this state, was, as they expressed it, to hold forth a lively experiment that a flourishing civil state may stand and be best maintained with full liberty in religious concernments; we, therefore, declare that no person shall be compelled to frequent or to support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatever, except in fulfillment of such person's voluntary contract; nor enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in body or goods; nor disqualified from holding any office; nor otherwise suffer on account of such person's religious belief; and that every person shall be free to worship God according to the dictates of such person's conscience, and to profess and by argument to maintain such person's opinion in matters of religion; and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect the civil capacity of any person.

* Worship may come in to play as the following is common in the Anglican wedding vows: With this Ring I thee wed, with my body I thee worship, and with all my worldly goods I thee endow: In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

19 posted on 02/28/2014 7:54:09 AM PST by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: C19fan

Spew-inducing, constitutionally ignorant, Salon Nazi garbage. Call in the E-Hazmat team to clean it up.


20 posted on 02/28/2014 8:08:35 AM PST by darkangel82
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To: Paulie

The Church will never stop performing marriages. It might stop working with the state, as the state’s definition of marriage deviated from the Church’s long ago any way.

Freegards


21 posted on 02/28/2014 8:09:51 AM PST by Ransomed
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To: FReepers

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

22 posted on 02/28/2014 8:13:54 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: MNGal

Amen. Nothing more than hush money, being forced to refrain from preaching sermons the State finds objectionable.


23 posted on 02/28/2014 8:14:51 AM PST by afsnco
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To: C19fan

Some homosexuals are more honest about the agenda than others.

One honest one said the agenda is simple, gays win, Christians lose.

I think the latter is more important to most of them than the former.


24 posted on 02/28/2014 8:18:04 AM PST by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: Alex Murphy

Could you tell me more about “civil-tax-funded” churches? They are *funded* by the state?


25 posted on 02/28/2014 8:43:05 AM PST by ladyjane
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To: C19fan
To support SB 1062 you must conceive of religious liberty as a social trump card.

By accident, I'm sure, the author actually stumbled into the truth. Everyone knows that the social trump card is "DISCRIMINATION." As long as I can figure out what identity group is being targeted, I can always drum up social support by screaming discrimination. The so-called race card is just a special case of the bigger discrimination card.

I'm sure the author had a point for that article but I sure couldn't find it. What a poorly written, illogical piece of garbage. Pretty run-of-the-mill for Salon, however.

26 posted on 02/28/2014 9:39:22 AM PST by CommerceComet (Ignore the GOP-e. Cruz to victory in 2016.)
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To: ladyjane
Could you tell me more about “civil-tax-funded” churches? They are *funded* by the state?

Yes, exactly. The government officially "recognizes" or sanctions a particular church body, citizens then declare themselves members of said church body on their annual tax forms, and the government sends a portion of that citizen's collected tax dollars to the sanctioned church. See these threads for some real-world examples of how it does and doesn't work:

Austria:
Austrian Catholic church exits increase to a record high since 1945
Hungary:
[Hungarian] Government to temporarily cut church financing
Israel:
Vatican, Israel talk finance - at last
Belarus:
Belarus: Church Evicted
Reflections on Pluralism
Spain:
Financially Troubled Parts of Europe Consider Taxing Church Properties
Tax the Church? In Spain, it Saves the Govt Billions
Spanish Govt. and Roman Catholic Church reach financing agreement
Spanish Bishops say the Church has no intention of self-funding [Catholic Church 15-20% govt funded]
Germany:
Germans quit church during 2010 sex scandal
Catholics to exclude dodgers of church tax
German Catholics can only remain in the Church if they pay membership tax, rules court
Costa Rica:
Status of Church Questioned [Roman Catholicism, the official religion of Costa Rica]
Slovokia:
"Religious freedom in the Slovak Republic"
Fewer believers, but church coffers swell [Czech Republic]

27 posted on 02/28/2014 10:03:19 AM PST by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: cripplecreek

Actually the church should willingly throw off the exemption chains and speak loud and proud.

...then get ready to accept the loss of Catholic schools, even more so than have already happened...do you think a typical diocese, already strapped simply running the churches, is going to find the finances to fund extremely expensive schools when 25-30 percent of its income goes back to the taxing authorities...?

...and what about the parishioners...they don’t contribute disposable income to a diocese so it can go and hand some of the the money over to the government...

...relinquishing a crucial tax exemption for the purposes of making some lofty political statement might happen in the movies or some stupid novel, but nowhere else...


28 posted on 02/28/2014 11:26:14 AM PST by IrishBrigade
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To: IrishBrigade

People who sell themselves for a tax e4xemption are unworthy of my respect.

Just remember that so you don’t even have to waste your time responding to me.


29 posted on 02/28/2014 12:00:32 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: C19fan

Its no longer enough that the GOP has signed on to the homosexualist agenda - now, we have to hear about gays 24/7. Gay this, gay that. I can’t take it.


30 posted on 02/28/2014 1:08:01 PM PST by CountryClassSF
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