Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Celebrate Gay Marriage—or Else: Why is Government Coercion Necessary?
National Review ^ | 02/28/2014 | Jonah Goldberg

Posted on 02/28/2014 6:57:36 AM PST by SeekAndFind



Future historians will likely be flummoxed by the moment we’re living in. In what amounts to less than a blink of an eye in the history of Western civilization, homosexuality has gone from a diagnosed mental disorder to something to be celebrated — or else.

Indeed, the rush to mandatory celebration is so intense, refusal is now considered tantamount to a crime. And, in some rare instances, an actual crime if the right constable or bureaucrat concludes that you have uttered “hate speech.”

Or, if you refuse to bake a gay couple a cake for their wedding. That was the horror story that sparked much of this foofaraw.

Arizona’s proposed SB 1062 would have amended the state’s 15-year-old Religious Freedom Restoration Act in a minor way so as to cover businesses. Arizona’s religious-freedom statute was modeled on a similar federal law signed by Bill Clinton after passing with large bipartisan majorities in both houses. It would have allowed small businesses to decline work that violated their consciences, unless the government could show a compelling reason why such refusal was unreasonable or unjust.

Speaking of unreasonableness, according to ESPN’s Tony Kornheiser, if Arizona allows bakers to refuse to bake cakes for gay couples, gays may have to wear “yellow stars” like the Jews of Nazi Germany. It would be Jim Crow for gays according to, well, too many people to list.

Now lest you get the wrong impression, I am no opponent of gay marriage. I would have preferred a compromise on civil unions, but that ship sailed. The country, never mind the institution of marriage, has far bigger problems than gays settling down, filing joint tax returns, and arguing about whose turn it is to do the dishes. By my lights it’s progress that gay activists and left-wingers are celebrating the institution of marriage as essential. Though I do wish they’d say that more often about heterosexual marriage, too.

But I find the idea that government can force people to violate their conscience without a compelling reason repugnant. I agree with my friend, columnist Deroy Murdock. He thinks private businesses should be allowed to serve whomever they want. Must a gay baker make a cake for the hateful idiots of the Westboro Baptist Church? Must he write “God hates fags!” in the icing?

The ridiculous invocations of Jim Crow are utterly ahistorical, by the way. Jim Crow was state-enforced, and businesses that wanted to serve blacks could be prosecuted. Let the market work and the same social forces that have made homosexuality mainstream will make refusing service to gays a horrible business decision — particularly in the wedding industry!

When August “Gussie” Busch, the CEO of Budweiser, bought the St. Louis Cardinals in 1953, he was vexed by the Brooklyn Dodgers’ success, which was due in large part to Jackie Robinson. He asked Cardinals executives how many blacks they were cultivating, and when they said “None,” he was appalled. “How can it be the great American game if blacks can’t play? Hell, we sell beer to everyone!” he exclaimed. The next year the Cardinals had a black first baseman, Tom Alston.

In 2000, Jonathan Rauch, a (gay) brilliant intellectual and champion of gay marriage, wrote a wonderful essay on “hidden law,” which he defined as “the norms, conventions, implicit bargains, and folk wisdoms that organize social expectations, regulate everyday behavior, and manage interpersonal conflicts.” Basically, hidden law is the unwritten legal and ethical code of civil society. Abortion, assisted suicide, and numerous other hot-button issues were once settled by people doing right as they saw it without seeking permission from the government.

“Hidden law is exceptionally resilient,” Rauch observed, “until it is dragged into politics and pummeled by legalistic reformers.” That crowd believes all good things must be protected by law and all bad things must be outlawed.

As society has grown more diverse (a good thing) and social trust has eroded (a bad thing), the authority of hidden law has atrophied. Once it was understood that a kid’s unlicensed lemonade stand, while technically “illegal,” was just fine. Now kids are increasingly asked, “Do you have a permit for this?”

Gay activists won the battle for hidden law a long time ago. If they recognized that, the sane response would be, “You don’t want my business because I’m gay? Go to hell,” followed by a vicious review on Yelp. The baker would pay a steep price for a dumb decision, and we’d all be spared a lot of stupid talk about yellow stars.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: coercion; gaymarriage; government; homosexualagenda; homosexuality

1 posted on 02/28/2014 6:57:36 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Speaking of homosexuals:

Rink Employee May Have Fondled Feet Of More Than 200 Underage Boys

February 27, 2014 12:55 PM

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/02/27/northridge-roller-rink-employee-with-alleged-foot-fetish-arrested/


2 posted on 02/28/2014 6:58:25 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Maranatha!


3 posted on 02/28/2014 6:59:22 AM PST by frogjerk (We are conservatives. Not libertarians, not "fiscal conservatives", not moderates)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
The reset to natural law is going to be brutal beyond belief.

Folks had better prepare for the coming storm.

Link to the full-text Free Republic thread.

4 posted on 02/28/2014 6:59:32 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BenLurkin

I am more interested in the Obama Administration’s take on Civil rights.

See here:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/obama-inc-sues-trucking-company-for-firing-muslim-drivers-who-refused-to-deliver-alcohol/

Obama Inc. Sues Trucking Company for Firing Muslim Drivers Who Refused to Deliver Alcohol

If the Obama administration can sue a Transport company for firing Muslim employees for refusing to deliver alcohol, using violation of civil rights as the reason, why aren’t Christians being defended by Obama when they are forced to service gay weddings?

Muslims religious conscience now trumps Christian religious conscience?


5 posted on 02/28/2014 7:02:31 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
The government is coercing America on the issue of gay approval because Obama is gay. Just as he is pushing race and Islam in America.

Once he's gone (if he's ever gone), the country will snap back to its original belief (that being gay is a mental disorder).

Homosexuality isn't something new. It's been around forever and it never gains a real toehold in the civilized world because it is a perversion and nothing more.

6 posted on 02/28/2014 7:10:18 AM PST by RoosterRedux (The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing -- Socrates)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Wedding Gift Suggestion


7 posted on 02/28/2014 7:13:10 AM PST by Iron Munro (Eight died on that bridge at Concord, back in 1775. How many will it take this time?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

“Muslims religious conscience now trumps Christian religious conscience?”

They have argued that there is nothing in Christianity that would prohibit baking things for a gay wedding and if you use that as an excuse why dont they refuse cakes for other sins or divorced people. I think fighting it on a personal freedom argument would be more effective. Better yet, I have advocated telling the couple you would make them a cake, but would then contribute their payment to an anti-gay marriage organization. That should dampen their enthusiasm to do business with you.


8 posted on 02/28/2014 7:17:02 AM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

bttt


9 posted on 02/28/2014 7:20:49 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Government coercion has been going on for a long time in this country


10 posted on 02/28/2014 7:21:05 AM PST by Count of Monte Fisto (The foundation of modern society is the denial of reality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brooklyn Attitude

Alternatively, a contract requirement that the buyers display placards by the baker — just like many construction and renovation companies require — that say something like:

Proudly Baked By Alpha & Omega Wedding Company — May God Bless the Union of This Man and Woman in Holy Matrimony

A hefty liquidated damages clause for damage to reputation for failing to display or for defacing the sign, along with notice that the profits will be sent to a pro-traditional marriage group would stop the problem.


11 posted on 02/28/2014 7:30:52 AM PST by FateAmenableToChange
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Future historians will likely be flummoxed by the moment we’re living in. In what amounts to less than a blink of an eye in the history of Western civilization, homosexuality has gone from a diagnosed mental disorder to something to be celebrated — or else.

My dad was a psychologist during the period when homosexuality was treated as a mental disorder. The APA etc., was bullied by activists to change this view, per my dad's experience.

12 posted on 02/28/2014 7:36:29 AM PST by The_Media_never_lie (The media must be defeated any way it can be done.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

I choose else.


13 posted on 02/28/2014 7:41:19 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

The old adage of “Be careful or you may get what you want” may apply to gay marriage. I see there now is no obstacle to legalizing plural marriage, child marriage etc. The gay community might find it harder to get their wedding cakes baked when bakers are now busy making very large cakes for plural marriages. I fully expect that polygamy will be legalized in 5 years likely by the decision of an unelected federal judge.


14 posted on 02/28/2014 7:51:29 AM PST by The Great RJ
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: chris37

RE: I choose else.

You realize that if you choose else, as a businessman, you might be fined, jail and your business possibly closed down...


15 posted on 02/28/2014 7:53:06 AM PST by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Or, in the words of Canadian journalist Robert Davies, “The love that dare not speak its name has become the love that won’t shut up.”

Thank you, Jonah.


16 posted on 02/28/2014 7:56:41 AM PST by paterfamilias
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FReepers

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

17 posted on 02/28/2014 8:02:47 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

I do not own a business and I’m never going to.

I find as the months and years go by I no longer want to participate in this society’s way of life.

I see where this society is bringing us, and it looks like Hell to me.

I don’t want to go there.

I create happiness from very simple pleasures that cost little money. I am mostly unplugged from the American system now, and I think I am going to try to perfect that way of life even more.

One of the key sources of happiness having the freedom to do what I want, and not what someone else tells me that I should do.

Whatever happens in my future, or doesn’t happen, I am going to leave this rock a free man.


18 posted on 02/28/2014 8:03:07 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

This cultural embrace of homosexuality is a symptom of our descent into depravity. There are plenty of other sins, but this one proves that God has given them up to nonfunctioning minds. And all those who support this abomination are just as damned as those who participate in it, because they call God a liar in their support of it.

Nations who reach this level are unlikely to step back from the wrath God will pour out on them. They hate God and His rules and they’re destined to see His profoundly merciless side.

This isn’t a difficult formula: Obedience to God’s rules and faith in Christ = blessing; disobedience and hatred of God = wrath. But modern America prefers sin and wrath over obedience and blessing.


19 posted on 02/28/2014 8:08:09 AM PST by afsnco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

The idea of “hidden law” reminds me of the status of abortion prior to Roe v wade. I may get flamed for this, but it seems that in those days conservatives - and most of the public - wanted abortion officially proscribed, but were not particularly concerned about tracking down abortionists and prosecuting them, much less prosecuting women who had abortions. In other words, people wanted society to officially prohibit and condemn abortion, but were able to tolerate it a bit around the fringes of society. But now, of course, it has become mainstreamed and glorified as a constitutional right, subsidized with hundreds of millions of tax dollars, and promoted in the public schools.


20 posted on 02/28/2014 8:14:36 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brooklyn Attitude
"They have argued that there is nothing in Christianity that would prohibit baking things for a gay wedding and if you use that as an excuse why dont they refuse cakes for other sins or divorced people."

Well, you could say the same thing about the Muslim truck drivers - they might be delivering products to businesses owned by gays or Jews or fornicators, or containing food products not made according to Muslim law.
21 posted on 02/28/2014 8:21:50 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
"That crowd believes all good things must be protected by law and all bad things must be outlawed."

There is an old saying that goes something like, "For the Left, everything not prohibited is mandatory."
22 posted on 02/28/2014 8:25:35 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: afsnco

there will be a back-lash and I don’t think it will be pretty...


23 posted on 02/28/2014 8:26:50 AM PST by thejokker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Steve_Seattle

This cakes for other sins is nonsense. It isn’t about not serving gay people. It is about serving them a particular cake for celebrations the bakery does not wish to participate in. I would think it is the baker’s right to turn down a cake for a porn shop’s 20th anniversary celebration just the same. or a Free Mumia cake. Does anyone buy a cake for divorce celebrations?


24 posted on 02/28/2014 8:33:27 AM PST by Phillyred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: chris37

I find as the months and years go by I no longer want to participate in this society’s way of life.


Wow, exactly how I feel. I am newly retired and have pretty much stopped participating. Other than this forum and a couple of others, I just do my own thing. Live in the boonies, wood heat, no cable, make things and sell them if I need more money.


25 posted on 02/28/2014 8:36:27 AM PST by blastbaby
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Phillyred
"This cakes for other sins is nonsense. It isn’t about not serving gay people. It is about serving them a particular cake for celebrations the bakery does not wish to participate in. I would think it is the baker’s right to turn down a cake for a porn shop’s 20th anniversary celebration just the same. or a Free Mumia cake. Does anyone buy a cake for divorce celebrations?"

I'm not disagreeing with you. The various business owners made it clear they were not refusing to serve gays altogether, but only in the narrow context of gay marriage ceremonies. What if a liberal baker was asked to bake a cake for a wedding that he knew was basically an arranged Muslim marriage that the bride was being forced in to. Couldn't he refuse to bake a cake under those circumstances? Or would that be called religious discrimination?
26 posted on 02/28/2014 8:45:06 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: blastbaby
"Wow, exactly how I feel. I am newly retired and have pretty much stopped participating. Other than this forum and a couple of others, I just do my own thing. Live in the boonies, wood heat, no cable, make things and sell them if I need more money."

It probably won't be long before they come after your wood heat. Wood furnaces are already being banned in some places. In fact, I would not be surprised if rural living is banned someday, on the grounds that it is a luxury incompatible with the fight against global warming, or some such rationale. The planners want to eventually force everyone (except the ruling elite, of course) into high density urban areas close to mass transit. In fact, it's already happening.
27 posted on 02/28/2014 8:49:09 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
"Speaking of unreasonableness, according to ESPN’s Tony Kornheiser, if Arizona allows bakers to refuse to bake cakes for gay couples, gays may have to wear “yellow stars” like the Jews of Nazi Germany. It would be Jim Crow for gays according to, well, too many people to list."

Tony Kornhole has it backwards - what we are approaching is the day when Christians will be singled out for identification and marginalization. Haven't we already had big city mayors announce that certain Christian-owned businesses are not welcome in their cities? Have we not recently had a prominent governor announce that people with Christian beliefs aren't welcome in his state?
28 posted on 02/28/2014 8:53:05 AM PST by Steve_Seattle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: blastbaby

Yep.

I sort of have experience with this when I was younger at my grandma’s fishing camp in slidell, la.

only heat was a wood burning stove or the bonfire out back. Shower was a cold water hose hooked up to an metal portable shower head. Food was caught from the water.

As a kid I thought that was boring sometimes, but as an adult I sort of look back on that longingly.

Simplicity.

For me the best sort of happiness is time spent with dogs. It has come down to a point where I like dogs a lot better than I like people, so I spend more time with them.

Other than that I love walking, going to the beach and swimming, bike riding and a few other very simple activities.

I don’t need a yacht or a mansion or a sports car. I don’t need a trophy wife or power over others or a vast, personal fortune.

Freedom is being able to do what you love, and happiness is loving what you do. That is where I want to be on this earth. If I cannot have that, then I’ll be ready to leave.


29 posted on 02/28/2014 8:54:25 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Count of Monte Fisto

race is a TOTALLY different issue from a behavior.

Race is immutable and you can not conceal it.

A sex fetish is a conditioned behavior and nobody need to know about it.

There is no comparison.

Homosexuals use the “love” test for marriage because the original anti-mixed marriage laws were about children/reproduction. Two homosexuals can not “pair” and reproduct without the intervention of the opposit sex. (somehow)


30 posted on 02/28/2014 9:00:19 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

That’s what it appears to be and I believe is the ultimate objective of this Muzzie in the Whitehouse.


31 posted on 02/28/2014 9:30:06 AM PST by TurkeyLurkey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory
There is no comparison.

Government coercion is government coercion. You know what they say about the camels nose.

32 posted on 02/28/2014 9:59:01 AM PST by Count of Monte Fisto (The foundation of modern society is the denial of reality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Obama is gathering his troops for the next holocaust against you and I.

Problem for him though, is that we are armed.

33 posted on 02/28/2014 10:03:25 AM PST by right way right (America has embraced the suck of Freedumb.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: longtermmemmory

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner. “Behavior” is not pigmented. That is why I find comparing this to the Civil Rights Act so offensive.


34 posted on 02/28/2014 10:56:46 AM PST by Tradcon (Tradcon)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Count of Monte Fisto; longtermmemmory
Government coercion has been going on for a long time in this country

And you demonstrated this by posting a photo of the government protecting the rights of its citizens?

35 posted on 02/28/2014 12:54:05 PM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

There is no such thing as ‘gay marriage’, it is ‘homosexuals’ and two men cannot possibly be married.


36 posted on 02/28/2014 2:24:27 PM PST by CodeToad (Keeping whites from talking about blacks is verbal segregation!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Placemark.


37 posted on 02/28/2014 8:51:57 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

38 posted on 02/28/2014 10:57:16 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Scoutmaster
And you demonstrated this by posting a photo of the government protecting the rights of its citizens?

How is using armed Federal soldiers to end Freedom of Association protecting the rights of its citizens?

39 posted on 03/01/2014 8:42:22 AM PST by Count of Monte Fisto (The foundation of modern society is the denial of reality.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Count of Monte Fisto
I'm making what may be imperfect assumptions. I'm assuming this involved a public school, erected and operated with public funds. I don't believe that Freedom of Association was intended to apply to funded public facilities.

If this were a private pool, or a private softball league on a private field, or a private country club, then I'm prepared to bring Freedom of Association into the argument.

If it's a public pool supported by public funds, I don't believe Freedom of Association permits denying use by Jewish citizens; I don't believe Freedom of Association permits a municipal softball league to deny participation by a Buddhist team; and I don't believe Freedom of Association permits a public school to deny access to black students.

40 posted on 03/03/2014 5:25:07 AM PST by Scoutmaster (I'd rather be at Philmont)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson