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Russia to Pay? Not So Simple
NYT ^ | March 1, 2014 | By Peter Baker

Posted on 03/01/2014 12:53:21 PM PST by Jim Robinson

WASHINGTON — President Obama has warned Russia that “there will be costs” for a military intervention in Ukraine. But the United States has few palatable options for imposing such costs, and recent history has shown that when it considers its interests at stake, Russia has been willing to absorb any such fallout.

Even before President Vladimir V. Putin on Saturday made his first public gesture toward ordering Russian troops into the Ukrainian territory of Crimea, Mr. Obama and his team were already discussing how to respond. They talked about canceling the president’s trip to a summit meeting in Russia in June, shelving a possible trade agreement, kicking Moscow out of the Group of 8 or moving American warships to the region.

Armed forces block the Ukrainian naval border guard base at Balaklava Bay in Sevastopol.Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split FearedMARCH 1, 2014 That is the same menu of actions that was offered to President George W. Bush in 2008 when Russia went to war with Georgia, another balky former Soviet republic. Yet the costs imposed at that time proved only marginally effective and short-lived. Russia stopped its advance but nearly six years later has never fully lived up to the terms of the cease-fire it signed. And whatever penalty it paid at the time evidently has not deterred it from again muscling a neighbor.

“The question is: are those costs big enough to cause Russia not to take advantage of the situation in the Crimea? That’s the $64,000 question,” said Brig. Gen. Kevin Ryan, a retired Army officer who served as defense attaché in the American Embassy in Moscow and now, as a Harvard scholar, leads a group of former Russian and American officials in back-channel talks.

Mr. Putin has already demonstrated that...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: obama; putin; russia; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; yuliatymoshenko
What now coach?
1 posted on 03/01/2014 12:53:21 PM PST by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

A limp-wristed slap across the hand from Obama!


2 posted on 03/01/2014 12:56:14 PM PST by broken_arrow1 (I regret that I have but one life to give for my country - Nathan Hale "Patriot")
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To: Jim Robinson
Obama skipped this afternoons National Security meeting in the situation room. I am of the sadly belated opinion that there are no longer “serious men” in DC, just a bunch of special interest lackeys running behind lobbyist hoping for a handout.
3 posted on 03/01/2014 12:57:14 PM PST by swamprebel (a Constitution once changed from Freedom, can never be restored.)
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To: swamprebel

Oh they’ll pay. They’ll almost die, doubled over with laughter! That’ll teach um.


4 posted on 03/01/2014 12:58:17 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Our affirmative action Muslim can do nothing.


5 posted on 03/01/2014 12:58:22 PM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: swamprebel

I mean even Putin seems to be acting silly and taunting. Biker gangs! Chechens! Can he be serious?


6 posted on 03/01/2014 12:59:03 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Jim Robinson

The costs of Russia’s sending of it’s troops into Ukraine will be dealt in numerous five- and 10-yard penalties, all from the point of the foul. “Boy, will we ever,” Obama said when asked if he plans to initiate drastic penalties upon the nation of Russia. “We are going to give them such a hit.”


7 posted on 03/01/2014 12:59:22 PM PST by righttackle44 (Take scalps. Leave the bodies as a warning.)
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To: Jim Robinson

George Will once wrote, “America is an imperfect country surrounded by atrocious countries.

Those atrocious countries don’t worry about Obama and do whatever they please now. They will continue to do so until a conservative is elected, just as with Carter and Reagan.


8 posted on 03/01/2014 12:59:50 PM PST by SaxxonWoods (....Let It Burn...)
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To: Jim Robinson

What Obama should do today is announce that defense spending will not be cut and that various systems like the A-10 will not be mothballed. What Obama will do is dither and pass gas.


9 posted on 03/01/2014 1:00:46 PM PST by JimSEA
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To: Jim Robinson

10 posted on 03/01/2014 1:01:38 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: SaxxonWoods

Maybe Putin will fax another bare chested picture to the White House, causing Barack and Slow Joe to faint and die. Then we will get President Boehner. Doesn’t that make you feel good.

Really. Barack is in for the embarrassment of his life.


11 posted on 03/01/2014 1:01:54 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Jim Robinson
This the same jackdaw , who 33 minutes later,
went to a gathering of Democrats and said

"So, this is now officially happy hour with the Democratic party"


12 posted on 03/01/2014 1:02:49 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: swamprebel
Obama skipped this afternoons National Security meeting in the situation room

A green light signal to Putty!

13 posted on 03/01/2014 1:03:35 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: Revolting cat!

He was too busy with the new Acorn figuring out how to punk the 2014 midterms.


14 posted on 03/01/2014 1:07:53 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Obama makes the late Rodney King look like a genius.


15 posted on 03/01/2014 1:14:15 PM PST by CdMGuy
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To: swamprebel; Jim Robinson
Obama skipped this afternoons National Security meeting in the situation room.

But I'll bet pRESIDENT Valerie Jarrett chaired the meeting.

16 posted on 03/01/2014 1:16:26 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your teaching is my delight.)
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To: SaxxonWoods
"They will continue to do so until a conservative is elected, just as with Carter and Reagan."

I'm not convinced that's the case here. GW Bush was not adverse to the use of military power and he did jack sh!t to stop the Russians in south Ossetia...still occupied by the Russians and ostensibly part of Georgia.

It's the reality of geography and the fact the Russians have, essentially, strategic parity with us.

Anyone who would propose that we attempt to project military force into the Caucasus or Crimea...eve Western Ukraine, is either bat-sh!t nuts or naive.

We might be able to prevail...but that would be extraordinarily unlikely. Far more likely we'd have our ass handed to us.

Has anyone stopped to ask the question: What is the strategic national interest that would have us risk war with Russia in Ukraine? Or, Georgia for that matter.

This morning William Kristol was again advocating in NRO that we "solidify our security agreements with Ukraine and complete the addition of Georgia into NATO"

Don't people see the folly in this? To commit the USA to existential war in defense of the territorial integrity of either Ukraine or Georgia?

Really?

After we cleanse the GOP of the "RINOs", we should immediately pivot to the Neo Cons. They are not good Americans and they would lead us to destruction.

17 posted on 03/01/2014 1:19:39 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Jim Robinson

Report that Ukrainian Navy flagship has rejected orders from Kiev regime and is now returning to port under Russian flag.

Another report that the Ukrainian armed forces are not following orders from unelected Kiev regime and remain loyal to the elected President, Yanukovich.


18 posted on 03/01/2014 1:24:18 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: Mariner

You are 100% correct. But some people assume anyone asking for American help (such as neo-Nazi regime in Kiev) must be worth going to war far. Not so. And $17 Trillion in debt suggests we should only go to war when our vital interests are at stake. The entire world is not a vital interest.


19 posted on 03/01/2014 1:26:04 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: Jim Robinson


20 posted on 03/01/2014 1:30:57 PM PST by Iron Munro (Albert Einstein: The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits)
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To: Mariner
Anyone who would propose that we attempt to project military force into the Caucasus or Crimea...eve Western Ukraine, is either bat-sh!t nuts or naive.

Yep. Any talk of Ukraine joining NATO is pure folly.

21 posted on 03/01/2014 1:32:20 PM PST by Hugin
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To: Jim Robinson
If Brains Were Leather Barack Obama Couldn't Saddle A Gnat.


22 posted on 03/01/2014 1:33:01 PM PST by Iron Munro (Albert Einstein: The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits)
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To: Jim Robinson

Nice article,
Your first time posting here kid?


23 posted on 03/01/2014 1:39:55 PM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: Joe Boucher

I’m mostly a lurker.


24 posted on 03/01/2014 1:42:52 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: UriÂ’el-2012

So...who is in charge? Hagel? The man just just days ago dazzled us with his foresight to cut the military? Say it ain’t so.


25 posted on 03/01/2014 1:43:52 PM PST by rbg81
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To: broken_arrow1
Obama Fires Verbs At Russian tanks

President Barack Obama fired a few verbs across the front armor of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s tanks, in a rushed statement just after 5 p.m. on Friday.

The statement was made as Russian forces — including attack helicopters — appeared in peripheral parts of the Ukraine that are largely populated by ethnic Russians.

There’s no evidence that Obama wants to get involved in what may become a war between the Ukraine and Russia.

He did not threaten any significant retaliation if Russian force attack nor did he offer military aid to the Ukraine. He announced that Vice President Joe Biden — but not himself — has just talked to the Ukraine’s president.

“We have been very clear about one fundamental principle — the Ukrainian people deserve the opportunity to determine their own future,” Obama said.

“We are now deeply concerned by reports of military movements taken by the Russian federation inside the Ukraine. … Any violation Ukrainian sovereignty and territory would be deeply destabilizing,” he said.

A Russian intervention “would invite the condemnation of nations around the world… the United States will stand with the international community in affirming there will be costs.”

He did not specify the threatened costs, or draw a red line.


26 posted on 03/01/2014 1:46:55 PM PST by Iron Munro (Albert Einstein: The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits)
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To: Jim Robinson

Thanks for everything big guy.


27 posted on 03/01/2014 1:51:30 PM PST by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: swamprebel

Why should obama attend the meeting? He’s not making the decisions.


28 posted on 03/01/2014 2:15:07 PM PST by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: Jim Robinson

Jim Rob - reading the NYT so we don’t have to. Did you have your airplane bag at the ready?


29 posted on 03/01/2014 2:28:26 PM PST by bkopto (Free men are not equal. Equal men are not free.)
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To: bkopto; Jim Robinson

30 posted on 03/01/2014 3:29:51 PM PST by 4Liberty (Optimal institutions - optimal economy.)
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To: Jim Robinson

“That’s the $64,000 question,” said Brig. Gen. Kevin Ryan, a retired Army officer who served as defense attaché in the American Embassy in Moscow and now, as a Harvard scholar, leads a group of former Russian and American officials in back-channel talks.”

I don’t know this guy but he’s about as astute as a box of rocks. If he thinks this is a $64,000 question I wonder where he’s been. Russia’s taking what they want is a done deal. The surprise would be that any part of Ukraine would not be brought back under Russian sphere of influence.


31 posted on 03/01/2014 4:33:07 PM PST by Portcall24
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To: Jim Robinson
What now coach?

Limber up - the "flexibility" plan is next up.

32 posted on 03/02/2014 3:25:09 AM PST by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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