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Ukraine vs. Russia -- here's what's really going on
FOX News ^ | Feb 28, 2014 | By Peter Brooks Heritage Foundation

Posted on 03/01/2014 1:01:41 PM PST by Jim Robinson

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To: Jim Robinson
We should bear in mind that Russia has been willing to protect ethnic Russians, Russian nationals and or former Soviet regions that were separated from the Motherland...

What a novel idea, maybe Obama should try it for Americans, on the Mexican border, for a start.

51 posted on 03/01/2014 2:27:09 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Exactly who will stop Putin? Our Fearless Leader can't even spare the time to be briefed on the matter. NATO has neither the will nor the resources necessary to project power to the Crimean peninsula, and the EU isn't going to stop purchasing Russian energy. Putin holds all the cards except for one: his pipelines are vulnerable to a prolonged campaign of sabotage and civil disobedience. That's not much, but it's something.
52 posted on 03/01/2014 2:31:01 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: grania
Are there any doubts at all that the US inspired these protests to escalate to a violent overthrow of a government?

Apparently there is a lot of doubt on FR.

53 posted on 03/01/2014 2:34:33 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Jim Robinson
It's unlikely Russian tanks will drive into Ukraine proper UNLESS the Ukrainians resist militarily the Russian para-military incorporation of the historic Russian Empire.

We can expect pro-Russian uprisings throughout the regions east of the Dnieper river, Crimea...and along the southern coast of Ukraine, though Odessa. We might even see a continuous bloc of pro-Russian "governments reaching all the way to "Trinisteria" near Romania.

But I suspect they'll be done by then.

After all, who wants to take on the BASKET CASE of the "Balkanized" Western Ukraine? Nobody wants that, not even the Russians.

They'd be happy to see the EU take that on.

54 posted on 03/01/2014 2:38:33 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Hugin
I don’t want Ukraine joining NATO. That’s writing a check we can’t afford to cash.

Obama has no skin in this game.

Just the US military and middle class taxpayers that Obama and the Progressive DemoRats hate so much.

55 posted on 03/01/2014 2:38:51 PM PST by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Jimmy Valentine

East Ukraine manufactures a lot of Russia’s military components.


56 posted on 03/01/2014 2:39:20 PM PST by sunrise_sunset
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To: grania

I don’t know the answer to your question. Not sure the public does.

I personally believe the extreme actions of the former President of Ukraine reaped its own overthrow. Did the CIA help? I don’t know.


57 posted on 03/01/2014 2:40:16 PM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: jmacusa

Western Ukrainians don’t - in the worst case scenario I don’t see Russia going further than the Dnieper River. I think that would be the probable limit of Russian conquests and it would also give Moscow a land bridge to Transnistria. IF there is a war.

Russia is simply to going to avoid Western Ukraine because it would not be welcome there and the costs of occupying it are simply too high to be worth the risk. The West can have it if it wants.


58 posted on 03/01/2014 2:48:36 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: a fool in paradise

The new border will be drawn along the Crimea River.


59 posted on 03/01/2014 2:59:03 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: Revolting cat!

I saw what you did there.


60 posted on 03/01/2014 3:01:45 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
I thought they would go in during the Closing Ceremonies.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3124497/posts?page=16#16

Gaddafy learned the hard way. We lost a fine pilot on that mission. RIP to both the pilot and Reagan.

61 posted on 03/01/2014 3:03:14 PM PST by Chgogal (Obama "hung the SEALs out to dry, basically exposed them like a set of dog balls..." CMH)
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To: Revolting cat!

62 posted on 03/01/2014 3:26:25 PM PST by a fool in paradise (The Texas judge's decision was to pave the way for same sex divorce for two Massachusetts women.)
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To: Revolting cat!

Those Ukraine girls really knock me out...


63 posted on 03/01/2014 3:26:44 PM PST by a fool in paradise (The Texas judge's decision was to pave the way for same sex divorce for two Massachusetts women.)
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To: Jim Robinson
Since Yanukovich took office in 2010 following a perfectly legitimate election, who is actually behind his removal from office? It certainly isn't the Russians......

When you remember the report of CNN's Eason Jordan, who admitted that for a decade the network had censored the attrocities that were occuring in Iraq under Hussein, one has to wonder if what we are reading about the Ukraine is not more propaganda by our own MSM in order to further this administration's agenda.........

I'm open to suggestions.........

64 posted on 03/01/2014 3:28:27 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (SO)
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To: Hot Tabasco

I don’t know. Communists? Nazis? Sorry, redundant.


65 posted on 03/01/2014 3:32:08 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: huckfillary
How does it affect Russian interests?

The Ukraine is rich with newly discovered natural resources and there are forces within that want them to join the failing EU.........

Yanukovich is opposed to that union, and rightfully so, and has instead chosen to accept aid from Russia..............

This is not a typical uprising of the people against the president who really hasn't done anything wrong. Instead, there's a coordinated faction, similar to our past SDS and Weathermen, that is successfully funding and leading the civilian protests that are going on in the Ukraine........

66 posted on 03/01/2014 3:40:16 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (SO)
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To: Jim Robinson
I don’t know. Communists? Nazis? Sorry, redundant.

Communists? Nazis? I don't know either. You going to trust the MSM to give you the truth?

We know how that turned out regarding the final disclosure of chemical WMD's to Syria and the uranium that was shipped to Canada don't we?

According to the MSM, they never existed...........

67 posted on 03/01/2014 3:46:26 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (SO)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad
It’s a major vulnerability, economically speaking.

I agree! The thing that would hurt Russia the most is the per barrel price of crude dropping below $70. The Unicorn President - also known as President Hornbreath - would never sign off on American energy resources being brought to bear to make that a reality.

68 posted on 03/01/2014 3:50:31 PM PST by Tonytitan
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What scares me domestically speaking is Putin putting Zero in his place and dissing him so publically. I’m afraid Zero will be so enraged by Putin’s actions that he’ll take it out on his own citizens in order to prove he’s a badass. Get ready for an avalanche of executive orders and regulations then.


69 posted on 03/01/2014 4:27:33 PM PST by Prince of Space (Be Breitbart, baby. LIFB.)
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To: huckfillary
Ukraine is a key element to reestablishing (or not) Russia as a major global power. Russia has huge area, thousands of nukes and oil/gas money, what they are missing are people, Russia has population of only 144 million, not enough to be a major global player, that's why they are trying to put together ex-Soviet republics slowly turning them into client states. Ukraine is by far the largest of them, once they get it back (or at least a large part), cold war 2.0 is on (it will be initiated once Russia is strong enough, how the west reacts is irrelevant, Obama could even tattoo “reset with Russia” on his forehead, it doesn't matter, actually appeasement will only speed things up). Gorbi guy didn't shut down the business, he just sold a part of fixed assets to regain liquidity, implement new market strategy and wait for a good opportunity to buy them back. With the west in economic crisis and under weak leadership, the opportunity is now.
70 posted on 03/01/2014 4:36:41 PM PST by Grzegorz 246
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To: Jim Robinson

Now some are trying to use a tiny radical movement as justification for partitioning of the entire country. As if we didn’t witness a huge movement in Kiev and it’s Parliament to oust the dictator.


71 posted on 03/01/2014 4:57:59 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad

Parts if the US are heavily Mexican

Parts of Austria, Poland and Czechoslovakia were heavily German in the 30’s...

this justifies nothing


72 posted on 03/01/2014 4:58:57 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Hot Tabasco

Yanukovich robbed the country blind, they removed him from power legitimately too


73 posted on 03/01/2014 5:01:34 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: GeronL
Yanukovich robbed the country blind,

According to who? CNN?

You may be right but I no longer have any faith in reports the MSM is airing on the Ukraine or anywhere else in this world..........

As I stated previously, the MSM totally ignored what was going on in Iraq under Hussein and they hid the revelation of the chemical WMD's being shipped to Syria and the uranium to Canada..........

The primary question I have is who was behind the riots in the streets and why were they so organized?

The last such insurrection we saw involved a bunch of protesters over a youtube video..........at least that's what we've been told.

74 posted on 03/01/2014 5:37:37 PM PST by Hot Tabasco (SO)
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To: Hot Tabasco

According to every media outlet and the opposition too.

Anyone who would declare the Presidential Palace their private property is a crook, any leader who wants to create their own Constitution is a third world-type dictator.

Who was behind the “riots” in the streets? Apparently millions of Ukrainians.

video report
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26303913

in pictures
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26307745

...

There was no insurrection over a Youtube video.


75 posted on 03/01/2014 5:45:55 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: goldstategop
I'm curious as to how it will all go down. I really wonder if the Russians have the stomach for a fight. This isn't Chechnya and these aren't Muslim thugs and second stringers. This is two modern armies with lots of lethal firepower, attack helicopters, fixed wing aircraft, artillery, tanks, the works and anything that does happen will be played out in real time on CNN, Fox, SKY News, the whole world will see this. Putin's nuts if he goes to the mat on this.
76 posted on 03/01/2014 6:22:10 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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To: jmacusa

That’s what scary - Putin could be nuts, and we know
Obama is nuts, and they just talked for 90 minutes...


77 posted on 03/01/2014 6:46:56 PM PST by savage woman (see ya in Washington May 16th...)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad
Crimea is Russia’s #1 concern; I doubt they care all that much about the rest of Ukraine, beyond lip service. But Crimea is do-or-die for Russia.

To control the Dnieper is to control water traffic from the Black Sea to the Baltic.

78 posted on 03/01/2014 9:19:04 PM PST by Carry_Okie (Islam offers us three choices: Defeat them utterly, die, or surrender to a life of slavery.)
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To: Billthedrill
Putin holds all the cards except for one: his pipelines are vulnerable to a prolonged campaign of sabotage and civil disobedience. That's not much, but it's something.

Killing the petrochemical cash flow is what brought down the Soviet Union.

79 posted on 03/01/2014 9:25:26 PM PST by Carry_Okie (Islam offers us three choices: Defeat them utterly, die, or surrender to a life of slavery.)
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To: Carry_Okie

bump


80 posted on 03/01/2014 9:26:37 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Jim Robinson

What’s really going on is putin wants to put the old soviet union back together.


81 posted on 03/02/2014 12:02:51 AM PST by Cubs Fan (Obama-worst president in American History)
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To: Cubs Fan

It sure looks that way


82 posted on 03/02/2014 12:03:12 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Cubs Fan

More like the Russian Empire.


83 posted on 03/02/2014 12:05:44 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: goldstategop

>>>Russia is simply to going to avoid Western Ukraine because it would not be welcome there and the costs of occupying it are simply too high to be worth the risk. The West can have it if it wants.

Not to mention the West of Ukraine is ox and a cart and Kiev only survives redistributing wealth created by docile hardworking easterners to politically active western freeloaders.


84 posted on 03/02/2014 2:10:29 AM PST by cunning_fish
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To: sunrise_sunset

Yes it does. There is a major tank repair/rebuild facility just to the east of Kiev


85 posted on 03/02/2014 3:10:34 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
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To: Hot Tabasco
The primary question I have is who was behind the riots in the streets and why were they so organized?

That's my question too. One half of me asks: Where did they get all those riot police shields? I don't think one can order hundreds of those off the internet. And the other half says: Why didn't they just arm them with weapons instead?

86 posted on 03/02/2014 6:07:08 AM PST by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: kingattax

“..bottom line -— obozo is a bottom twink and putin knows it...”

But let’s do a little comparison since they’re both tyrannical dictators:

obamie: community organizer (chicago thug & trouble maker)
Putin: Former KGB agent

obamie: hates the country he’s king over - destroying it.
Putin: Proud Russian that loves his country.

obamie: a fake milk-toast gay liberal pansy man.
Putin: a strong man’s man.

obamie: loves muslims and their slime, hates Christians.
Putin: hates muslims and their slime, supports his church.

I wonder if Putin will support the secession and independence of the sovereign state of Texas when the time comes?


87 posted on 03/02/2014 2:10:58 PM PST by lgjhn23 (It's easy to be liberal when you're dumber than a box of rocks.)
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Less than $2.7k to go!!

88 posted on 03/02/2014 2:59:51 PM PST by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Remember, there’s much more flexibility in O’s second term.


89 posted on 03/02/2014 5:21:19 PM PST by HollyB
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To: Jim Robinson
“A bit of a problem” is an understatement.

What I've not seen most people factor in, is the true position of the EU.
Our purported best friends and allies.

The EU is an elitist, socialist, NGO constructed to battle economically against the USA, while maintaining NATO military defense relations, primarily paid for and manned by the USA.

I'm just a cynical old Cold War veteran, who has loosely followed the political and financial antics of the insane EU construct for several decades.

Most people don't acknowledge that the actual citizens of the EU aligned countries have never affirmatively voted themselves in or out of it.
It just grew like a virulent cancer out of corrupt political financial deals to the point that the current elected leaders of the UK and other nation state members now absolutely refuse to bring the whole thing to any popular vote, before their own reelections are cemented.

I find it odd to think that the majority population of the Ukraine would want to voluntarily join into what a sizable population of current member nations of the EU want to exit.

I wonder if Germany would be so open to conciliatory talks with Russia, if 100% of the proposed USA DOD cuts came from closing USA NATO Army bases there.And if people in the western Ukraine would be so very eager to join the EU, if they knew the history, and probable outcome of that decision

Oh well...just my own private musings on current events.

90 posted on 03/02/2014 6:19:55 PM PST by sarasmom (Extortion 17. A large number of Navy SEALs died on that mission. Ask why.)
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To: savage woman
I've said it here before and I'll say it again. Putin is the penultimate product of the system he served , the KGB and the former USSR. He'd have stepped over his own mother if he had been ordered to and he'd do it now to achieve his ends. He despises Obama, first because Obama is black and Russians on the whole are not fond of blacks, Asians or any people of color and second because he see's Obama as being feckless and weak. The difference between the two are beyond night and day. But even by victory can victors be undone and the Russian bear has in the past gotten it's greedy snout whacked . In the winter of 1939/40 and in Manchuria in 1936. If Putin stops at the Crimea that might be well enough. If he tries to go further it could be a blood bath.
91 posted on 03/02/2014 8:02:08 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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To: jmacusa

Yep, the Poles have been itchin’ for a fight since 1945, and they won’t let the Russians anywhere near Western Ukraine without a fight.

Fortunately, I do not believe Putin would be so stupid. He has a case for Crimea, and perhaps even the Donetsk Region, he will get a pass on that....But if he threatens Kiev, or Lviv, then it’s a whole new ballgame.


92 posted on 03/02/2014 8:04:52 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Putin would laugh his ass off. Sanctions? Have western Europe will freeze their asses off when they stop buying Russian natgas due to sanctions?

Putin’s got them (and us) by the short hairs on this one. Geopolitically we’re weak in Ukraine and the rest of the Russian neighborhood. Recent incompetence by our glorious leadership on just about everything certainly doesn’t make Russians really worried.


93 posted on 03/02/2014 8:08:16 PM PST by farlander (Fiat Justitia, Ruat Caelum. Sic Semper Tyrannis!)
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To: AnAmericanAbroad

Precisely.


94 posted on 03/02/2014 8:08:55 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: dfwgator

Yeah man. Good God, if this goes full out you’re looking at any major city in Ukraine or Western Russia looking like Stalingrad in ‘42 in about two days. One thing the Russkies do is pile on the artillery.


95 posted on 03/02/2014 8:15:37 PM PST by jmacusa ("Chasing God out of the classroom didn't usher in The Age of Reason''.)
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To: Jim Robinson

“I see a bad moon a’rising, looks like troubles on the way...” Gonna be big market shifts, right before the war gets everyone small involved. Heck of a deal.


96 posted on 03/02/2014 10:07:11 PM PST by RedHeeler
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To: dfwgator
Now if they can’t make that deal, we’ve got problems.

So we've got problems.

97 posted on 03/03/2014 8:02:44 AM PST by Pan_Yan (Who told you that you were naked? Genesis 3:11)
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To: cripplecreek

Very true. The election of leftist governments has given the Russians an open door to Latin America.

Cuba and VZ are its main landing points, but it’s also getting into Ecuador and Bolivia (relatively new to the leftist fold) and I read that Brazil is also fair game.

Our inaction there, even when these leftist governments have seriously damaged US and European interests, has made it clear to Russia that there’s nothing to fear from us. And, of course, Russia’s friend Iran is already there, particularly in VZ.


98 posted on 03/03/2014 12:42:54 PM PST by livius
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