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Ukraine: Violent clashes in Kharkiv leave dozens injured (Eastern Ukraine Seceding)
Euronews ^ | 03/01/2014 | euronews

Posted on 03/01/2014 3:14:54 PM PST by BurningOak

Dozens of people have been hurt in clashes in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Violence reportedly broke out when pro-Russia activists stormed the regional government’s headquarters.

...

They denounced the Kyiv authorities that have been installed - and called for reunification with Russia.

A Russian flag was later seen being raised.

(Excerpt) Read more at euronews.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: putin; russia; ukraine; viktoryanukovich; war; yuliatymoshenko
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This is big. Kharkiv is NOT Crimea, it is Eastern Ukraine on Russian border. The main government building has just been taken over by Russian protestors, a Russian flag is flying over the city.

Probably a provocation by Russian agents to manufacture excuse for bringing troops to Eastern Ukraine.

1 posted on 03/01/2014 3:14:54 PM PST by BurningOak
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To: BurningOak

More video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUbm3BsEHnk


2 posted on 03/01/2014 3:15:08 PM PST by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: Travis McGee

Prescient you are.


3 posted on 03/01/2014 3:16:10 PM PST by Black Agnes
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To: BurningOak

I’m far from being up to speed on all this, but as far as I can tell, the majority in the eastern half of the country do indeed want to align with Russia. I see the country peacefully splitting in half pretty soon, and everyone being relatively happy about it.


4 posted on 03/01/2014 3:18:27 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: BurningOak

Pure provocation. There are nearly open borders, so thousands of Russians came to cause the commotion. Same thing happened in other Ukrainian cities. Some of Russians were caught.


5 posted on 03/01/2014 3:21:45 PM PST by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: BurningOak

>Probably a provocation by Russian agents

Or probably people who don’t see the need to burn their cities with car tires and tear it apart with civil war without a really good reason.


6 posted on 03/01/2014 3:21:46 PM PST by soycd
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To: Samogon

This is scripted from a very old playbook.


7 posted on 03/01/2014 3:27:35 PM PST by AU72
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To: soycd

“Or probably people who don’t see the need to burn their cities with car tires and tear it apart with civil war without a really good reason.”

Except they just did that exact thing. I suspect it is a mixture of genuine local sentiment and Russian agents provocateurs from across the border. At any rate, they are openly calling for a foreign invasion. The location, on Russian border, right next to the deploying Russian army is a little too convenient for just an accidental riot.


8 posted on 03/01/2014 3:41:43 PM PST by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: Cementjungle

Hello its Russian agents who are trying to redo the Georgian invasion playbook.
Are you happy tyrant Putin a KGB dictator is invading the Ukraine !


9 posted on 03/01/2014 3:57:03 PM PST by ncalburt ( Amnesty-media out in full force)
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To: Cementjungle

Putin is now offering Russian passports to all Ukrainians who want them. Only requirement is that they speak Russian.

Ukraine is starting to split apart.

The Bandera Nazis will get Lviv.

Odessa wants to be independent of both Ukraine and Russia and want nothing to do with the Bandera Nazis and want them to leave.

Kherson, Nikolaev want to remain Ukraine and not be part of Russia, but also want nothing to do with the Bandera Nazis.

Crimea, Donetsk, Lugansk, and Kharkiv will leave Ukraine with Putin’s help and affiliate in some form with Russia.

Who knows what will happen to Kiev.


10 posted on 03/01/2014 3:59:49 PM PST by jimbo123
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Less than $4.3k to go!!

11 posted on 03/01/2014 4:03:45 PM PST by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: Cementjungle

That’s my prayer.


12 posted on 03/01/2014 4:08:08 PM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: BurningOak

Dang!


13 posted on 03/01/2014 4:18:36 PM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: jimbo123
The Bandera Nazis will get Lviv.

Odessa wants to be independent of both Ukraine and Russia and want nothing to do with the Bandera Nazis and want them to leave.

Kherson, Nikolaev want to remain Ukraine and not be part of Russia, but also want nothing to do with the Bandera Nazis.

Crimea, Donetsk, Lugansk, and Kharkiv will leave Ukraine with Putin’s help and affiliate in some form with Russia.

Who knows what will happen to Kiev.

You have described the breakup of Yugoslavia.

Odessa, Kherson, and Nikolaev will have to join forces; the era of city-states is long gone. This, however, will cut the Western Ukraine off from Black Sea, and that would be a serious problem... and that's where most of the violence is likely to occur. Eastern Ukraine and Crimea will be surrendered to Russia without much fight because the population there actively wants to join Russia.

14 posted on 03/01/2014 4:25:25 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Greysard
Odessa, Kherson, and Nikolaev will have to join forces; the era of city-states is long gone. This, however, will cut the Western Ukraine off from Black Sea, and that would be a serious problem... and that's where most of the violence is likely to occur.

Interesting. The Dneiper river runs to the Black Sea also.

15 posted on 03/01/2014 4:35:19 PM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: mac_truck
The Dneiper river runs to the Black Sea also.

The city of Kherson controls the exit into Black Sea. Those cities were not built in random places. Kherson is of extreme importance.

16 posted on 03/01/2014 4:48:42 PM PST by Greysard
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To: mac_truck

Any Russian takeover of Ukraine will be to control the entire length of the Dneiper - called the Nistru in Romanian.

That would also give Moscow a land bridge to Transnistria whose Slavs want to be incorporated into the Motherland.

A rump Ukrainian state will left to the north and the west of the Dnieper.

Of course assuming a political solution to the current crisis is not in the cards.


17 posted on 03/01/2014 4:56:08 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: BurningOak

Hitler partitioned parts of countries that were “German areas” too, how did that work out??


18 posted on 03/01/2014 5:02:25 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: BurningOak

And it’s not “Kharkiv” but Kharkov.

For all who know the history of WWII, the battle of Kharkov remains one of the most important in the defeat of the nazi Germany.

The 1st Battle of Kharkov so named by Wilhelm Keitel, was the 1941 tactical battle for the city of Kharkov during the final phase of Operation Barbarossa in 1941, when the Germans captured the city from the Red Army.

The final battle of Kharkov, in August 1943, was the biggest tanks battle of all times - more than 2600 tanks involved:
“Throughout the morning Soviet tanks worked their way forward in the hollows up to the southern edges of the cornfields, then made a mass dash across the road in full sight. “Das Reich”’s Panthers caught the leading waves of T-34’s with fierce defensive fire before they could reach our main battle line. Yet wave after wave followed, until Russian tanks flowed across in the protecting hollows and pushed forward into our battle positions.” - Wehrmart General Erhard Raus. Hitler ordered that the city had to be held “under all circumstanced”.
10,000 Germans were killed and 20,000 wounded.
The Red Army despite heavy losses, retook the city on August 23 1943.


19 posted on 03/01/2014 5:13:50 PM PST by Marguerite ( When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

Thank you for the history, very interesting.


20 posted on 03/01/2014 5:43:30 PM PST by BeadCounter (Let's see some backup for what you say.)
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To: BurningOak

21 posted on 03/01/2014 5:52:42 PM PST by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: BurningOak
I'm wondering just WHO they were fighting against.

I saw violence from civilian to civilian...which leads me to believe that Ethnic Ukrainians...Western Parties etc. didn't take kindly to the Russians storming the government building.

I'm also wondering if they are paid militia.

This could get very ugly. Very ugly.

22 posted on 03/01/2014 5:57:23 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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Putin's hint?
SOCHI 2014


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23 posted on 03/01/2014 6:17:12 PM PST by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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To: Marguerite

The biggest tank battle of all time was at Kursk not Kharkov.


24 posted on 03/01/2014 6:17:54 PM PST by sasportas
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To: Greysard
"and that would be a serious problem... and that's where most of the violence is likely to occur"

That ring of "Russians" on the Black Sea coast reaches all the way to Moldova and parts of Romania. There are already a couple of thousand Russian troops in Transnistria (it's like every other city block over there is a different country).

Odessa has been "Russian" since there was an Odessa.

The nationalists in Kiev and Lviv will get to keep a landlocked country with no agriculture, no industry, no order and no prospects.

They get to keep the part the Russians don't want.

25 posted on 03/01/2014 6:21:52 PM PST by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: jimbo123

You win the Godwin Award for this thread!

Aside from the heated rhetoric, I agree.


26 posted on 03/01/2014 6:32:54 PM PST by Forgotten Amendments (I remember when a President having an "enemies list" was a scandal. Now, they have a kill list.)
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To: jimbo123

Interesting situation. I think back to the break up of Yugoslavia, and have to view this one as much better in terms of bloodshed leading up to the tipping point where the break up can happen. If the people can somehow self-arrange themselves into a couple or few new countries without the stuff that went on there, that would be great.


27 posted on 03/01/2014 6:35:54 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Marguerite

You failed to mention that Kharkov was taken by the Russians in the wake of their Stalingrad successes but then was RETAKEN by the Germans. It was the last large metropolis ever taken by the German Army in World War II.


28 posted on 03/01/2014 6:38:58 PM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: BurningOak

and all of this is happening right after Bambi cuts back on the military. right?


29 posted on 03/01/2014 6:39:32 PM PST by Cruz_West_Paul2016
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To: Cementjungle

I was thinking about if Ukraine breaks up, what about the government and military pensions? How does that work?


30 posted on 03/01/2014 6:44:10 PM PST by jimbo123
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To: Marguerite
One of Field Marshall von Manstein's spearheads in the retaking of Kharkov was led by Joachim Peiper who was later to be infamous on the Western Front during the Battle of the Bulge. SS tanks in Kharkov, Ukraine photo tanks-of-the-1st-SS-Panzer-Division-Leibstandarte-SS-Adolf-Hitler-n-Kharkov-March-1943_zps045da970.jpg SS in Kharkov, Ukraine photo Snapshot164.jpg
31 posted on 03/01/2014 6:50:21 PM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: jimbo123

Government and military pensions for the Russian side will be secured by Russia to make sure population is loyal. Pensioners and Russian veterans are the biggest supporters of annexation with Russia. Anyone with a business or property, especially Ukrainians and Tatars, will have it confiscated by the Kremlin mafia, to build hotels, brothels, and casinos.


32 posted on 03/01/2014 6:51:59 PM PST by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: Monterrosa-24

It was a brutal and inhumane battle. Stalin left the army there to defend to the death. They were wiped out, but put up a Stalingrad like defense which slowed the German offensive and saved Leningrad and Moscow.


33 posted on 03/01/2014 6:54:27 PM PST by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: jimbo123
I was thinking about if Ukraine breaks up, what about the government and military pensions? How does that work?

Good question. I imagine there are lots of details like that to sort out whenever a country splits into more than one.

34 posted on 03/01/2014 6:58:26 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: jimbo123

When the Soviet Union broke up my in-laws in the Eastern Ukraine lost all the money they had paid toward a Volga automobile after having paid the full amount over years and were awaiting delivery. My mother-in-law worked at a huge chemical plant and at times received no pay, or she received script of dubious value, or food staples. The transition from Russsian Rubles to Ukrainian Hryvnia was chaotic.

Today my mother-in-law receives a pension but it is not based on her specific work as a top engineer at the chemical plant. It is just a standard pension provided by the Ukrainian government.

My extended family of in-laws live in the Eastern Ukraine and are Russian speakers but they DO NOT want to be part of Russia.


35 posted on 03/01/2014 7:03:50 PM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Monterrosa-24

The T34 was, and remains a legend. The T34 (84,000 produced) which were built by women in the backfront, came as a nasty surprise, for overconfident nazi German troops.
The tank a combination of a perfect armour (thick and highly sloped), efficient gun, good speed and autonomy, sturdiness, easy manufacturing and maintenance.
They played a main role in the great battles of WWII: Kharkov, Kursk and Stalingrad, when the army of Von Paulus capitulated ...


36 posted on 03/01/2014 7:03:52 PM PST by Marguerite ( When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: sasportas

“The biggest tank battle of all time was at Kursk not Kharkov.”

You’re right, I stand corrected.
At Kursk battle there were more than 4,000 tanks involved.


37 posted on 03/01/2014 7:05:45 PM PST by Marguerite ( When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

The Battle of Kursk involved countless tanks but it was very much like a World War I battle in that relatively few kilometers were gained at a huge cost due to the overall equality of the forces involved. The Germans were faced with the question of continuing the offense at a risk of “reinforcing failure”. Should they break off the offensive... or ...make more pushes that could lead to success.

Field Marshall von Manstein was skeptical of overall success but favored continuing the meat grinder as it trapped the Russians to committing their forces at this predictable place rather than giving them the initiative to develop attacks at strategic spots of their choosing.


38 posted on 03/01/2014 7:14:55 PM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: AU72

We know how it ends.


39 posted on 03/01/2014 7:15:32 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD

“Consider it a divorce.”


40 posted on 03/01/2014 7:16:22 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: jimbo123
The Bandera Nazis will get Lviv.

If they try it will be "Lwów" again.

41 posted on 03/01/2014 7:18:16 PM PST by dfwgator
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To: Marguerite

“...T34 was, and remains a legend...”

Yes indeed, and some of the number produced were made in Kharkov.


42 posted on 03/01/2014 7:18:45 PM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Marguerite
The tank a combination of a perfect armour (thick and highly sloped), efficient gun, good speed and autonomy, sturdiness, easy manufacturing and maintenance.

And American suspension and a variant of a BMW diesel engine. The T-34/76 fared well against the Panzer IV but it took the T-34/85 to give the Soviets a tank that could handle the Tiger and its 88mm MA.

43 posted on 03/01/2014 7:22:35 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg (Some people meet their heroes. I raised mine. Go Army.)
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To: Monterrosa-24

Very interesting. How do your in-laws feel about the Bandera followers?


44 posted on 03/01/2014 7:32:09 PM PST by jimbo123
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To: jimbo123

My wife’s grandfather was Red Army all the way from the Volga to Berlin. Her other grandfather was captured by the Germans in Sevastopol. While Ukraine had its Vlasov and Bandera and others who went to the German side even the Russians had those who went to the German side and today there are many skinheads in Russia who scream such things as “Russia for Russians”.

My wife believes in honoring those who fought against the Germans even though her family suffered under Stalin with some sent to the gulag at Solovki near the Arctic Circle. Many in the Red Army had mixed feelings such as Alexander Solzhenitsyn who served the Red Army faithfully in spite of his cynicism toward Russia’s supreme commander.


45 posted on 03/01/2014 7:42:22 PM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Monterrosa-24

“My wife believes in honoring those who fought against the Germans”

And she is right.
The heroism of the Red Army military is indisputable.
They had millions of casualties, but won.
They fought like lions.
Even women fought on the front.

Maj. Lyudmila M. Pavlichenko was the top-scoring woman sniper of all time, with 309 confirmed kills, of which 36 were enemy snipers. Wounded in June 1942, she was pulled out of combat and sent on a tour of the U.S., Canada, and Great Britain, becoming the first Soviet citizen welcomed at the White House by President Franklin D. Roosevelt. Woody Guthrie even wrote her a song.


46 posted on 03/01/2014 8:08:29 PM PST by Marguerite ( When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Cementjungle

Putin won’t be happy with a half a country.


47 posted on 03/01/2014 8:10:08 PM PST by Delta Dawn (Fluent in two languages: English and cursive.)
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To: Delta Dawn
Putin won’t be happy with a half a country.

My bet is that he's only interested in the half that wants him.

48 posted on 03/01/2014 8:12:55 PM PST by Cementjungle
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To: Marguerite
Woody Guthrie even wrote her a song.

What a surprise, a pinko fellow traveler extolling a commie sniper in song.

You know, I forget the lyrics to Woodie Guthrie's song about Audie Murphy. Know where I might find them?

49 posted on 03/01/2014 8:16:06 PM PST by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Cruz_West_Paul2016
and all of this is happening right after Bambi cuts back on the military. right?

Yea, but we're loading the military up with gay people. That should make us much more formidable than ever before.

50 posted on 03/01/2014 8:17:19 PM PST by Cementjungle
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