Skip to comments.Ukraine Finds Its Forces Are Ill Equipped to Take Crimea Back From Russia
Posted on 03/01/2014 6:35:18 PM PST by Jim Robinson
KIEV, Ukraine The new government of Ukraine called an emergency session of its national security council on Saturday in the face of the Russian militarys seizure of Crimea, but the leaders are facing a grim reality: Their armed forces are ill equipped to try to reconquer the region militarily.
Crimea has always been a vital base for the Soviet and then Russian Navy, serving as the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet, which has controlled the waters off southern Russia since 1783. After a period of tension following Ukraines independence when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991, Russia got to keep its base in Crimea on a lease, extended until at least 2042 by the now-ousted president, Viktor F. Yanukovych.
But the Ukrainian military has only a token force in the autonomous region a lightly armed brigade of about 3,500 people, equipped with artillery and light weapons but none of the countrys advanced battle tanks, said Igor Sutyagin, a Russian military expert at the Royal United Services Institute in London. The forces also have only one air squadron of SU-27 fighters deployed at the air base near Belbek.
A senior NATO official said that Ukraines small naval fleet, which was originally part of the Black Sea Fleet, had been boxed in by Russian warships.
The Russian takeover of Crimea was relatively easy, in part because the Ukrainian military was careful not to respond to a provocation that would excuse any larger intervention. The military which has seen its top leader change constantly with the political situation has also made a point of staying out of the internal political conflict in Ukraine.
The current military chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Mykhailo Kutsyn, was named to the job only on Friday,
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
President Ronald Reagan:
"Our enemies may be irrational, even outright insane,
driven by nationalism, religion, ethnicity or ideology.
They do not fear the United States
for its diplomatic skills or the number of automobiles
and software programs it produces.
They respect only the firepower of our tanks,
planes and helicopter gunships."
Undoubtedly the Ukrainian politicians made deliberate decisions to weaken their military for short-term political gains, just as American politicians have made decisions to weaken the US military for short-term politicals gains.
It will likely have the same effect.
The WH is over its pay grade,
Cause the TV Tells me she is stupid and stuff.
They have enough to get the party started. I’m just wondering how far Putin is willing to go. I always said he was a ruthless KGB thug.
Also, Putin has replaced Stalin's "Socialism in one country" with his own "Kleptocracy is patriotism" formulation.
No offense but what in earth has this conflict to do with Usa interests ? We should stay out of this
We know how the Liberal Messiah has hurt America. Now the world is seeing how He is hurting the world. Tsar Vladimir is taking advantage of the Liberal Messiah’s weakness. Ukraine is paying for the stupidity of the Obama voters.
Obama is a leader so weak freaking Jimmy Carter is like Reagan in comparison
The Russian SU-34 and SU-35 are good. Damned good. The MIG-29 is a solid fighter. And they have a lot of them.
He's a ruthless Russian thug. The Russian media pointed to Ukrainian removal of Lenin statues as evidence of Ukrainian Nazism and fascism. What does it say about Russians in general that Lenin statues are all over Russia and Lenin's Tomb retains pride of place in the Red Square, the seat of Russia's government? What would we say if Germany was dotted with Hitler statues in public squares and the Bundestag had a Hitler statue right on its doorstep? What if Germany accused its neighbors of being Communists for removing Hitler statues from their public areas?
odd i thouight they were talking about the svoboda thugs who are literally sieg heiling lets throw the jews in the oven thugs
How is it that Ukraine is not armed and one of the only decent supply’s of cheap ammo in this country is from Ukraine?
America, we are being disarmed.
Expect the Ukrainian production ammo to disappear quickly from America.
How are we better off than Ukraine to defeat totalitarianism?
No one should be surprised that Putin will take control of the Crimea.
If that is as far as this goes, massive bloodshed may be avoided.
Obama is playing a stupid Kabuki Dance with Putin. He intends to do nothing, Putin knows that, but the O_tard gave Putin the pretext to be “insulted”. I am sure there are some in Russia who want him to grab the whole of the Ukraine, which he can certainly do if he decides to.
Vlad is no fool. The O_tard is in over his head and looks even more stupid on the global scene than before.
You’re falling for the media’s cover up of Obama’s bungling before this conflict.
Sure, advantages we get from a Crimea unintegrated into Russia are not worth going to war ove, but they were worth maintaining by diplomatic means. Which, obviously, Obama didn’t do.
Obama not only can’t play “The Great Game”, his stupidity prevented professional foreign policy people from playing it.
If the Ukraine wants it’s land back, they will need to rapidly scale up two areas. First, a militia that puts a rifle in every person’s hands. Second, the creation of a sniper core that will be able to infiltrate into the break away regions. The use of a large sniper core that can neutralize the Russian hardware / tactical advantages will allow a period of time where the Ukrainian forces can build up and slowly move to control the breakaway regions.
In short, low intensity conflict using sniper teams to put pressure on the Russian forces, not the civilian population.
Jim, am sensing that NATO is being invited into a trap via only dispatch readings have seen. Not certain dispatch was reading was misinformation but looked legit. Dang, fog of it all. Wonder if our Military People will walk into a trap willingly? Almost looked like an invitation per my interpretation to come on in offering full protection for walking in to NATO which of course means U.S.
"If you like your country, you can keep your country. Period." the president said.
Don't be so hard on him. I heard that if the Russians invaded Miami, that Obama would draw a red line through North Carolina.
Obama: "So who am I supposed to support in this Ukraine thing? Which side are the Sunni Muslims on?"
Jarrett: "There are no Sunni Muslims involved. Basically it's a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know little. But Putin's intelligence agency has the goods on both of us, so just make some noise for a while but ultimately we're going to let Putin have whatever he wants."
sorry but svoboda is a neo nazi political party that got around 10% in last elections in ukraine ,
and yes they are a real deal neo nazi party akin to npd in germany, ataka in bulgeria and jokib in hungary and have nothing to do with real right wing consertive parties in europe like ukip in britian or pvv in netherlands
On one hand, a country that supports Christian faith (though Orthodox) and opposes homosexuality is a threat to the goal of a United States of Sodom. Thus you have and will see the paradox of pro communist liberals opposing Russia, and even sounding somewhat hawkish even now.
And the other hand, Putin is more of a wolf in sheep's clothing, and the Orthodox church is a means of controlling what atheism tried to do, and persecutes evangelical churches, and the fall of Ukraine signals another step towards Russia gaining terror-tory the Soviet Union lost. And a challenge to NATO, and to US influence and power.
But America's greatest enemies are within , inequity and the anti-Christ ideology that fosters it.
>>>How is it that Ukraine is not armed and one of the only decent supplys of cheap ammo in this country is from Ukraine?
Here is the answer. They have sold it all.
In 1992 Ukraine was a #3 global military power with some 800,000 standing army, thousands of jets including hundreds nuke strategic bombers, over 10,000 tanks and APCs, some 3000 nukes and hundreds of warships.
Russians has stolen the nukes, air force and navy were rusted away or sold to China, tanks and APCs went to Africa, small arms to America.
On that aspect,
But the Ukrainian military has only a token force in the autonomous region a lightly armed brigade of about 3,500
A senior NATO official said that Ukraines small naval fleet, which was originally part of the Black Sea Fleet, had been boxed in by Russian warships.
Ukraine had accomplished some military reform with NATO advice, but since President Yanukovych said that Ukraine was not interested in full NATO membership, cooperation has lagged, the NATO official said.
Now the force is somewhat pathetic.
Ukrainian air defenses, all produced in Russia and a generation behind, are considered weak.
yeah and that has nothing to do with Semion Mogilevich, the billion dollar don from Ukraine who is the head honcho of organized crime in Russia and his orgianaztion which is notorious for arms trafficking
From the NYB:
The protesters represent every group of Ukrainian citizens: Russian speakers and Ukrainian speakers (although most Ukrainians are bilingual), people from the cities and the countryside, people from all regions of the country, members of all political parties, the young and the old, Christians, Muslims, and Jews. Every major Christian denomination is represented by believers and most of them by clergy. The Crimean Tatars march in impressive numbers, and Jewish leaders have made a point of supporting the movement. The diversity of the Maidan is impressive: the group that monitors hospitals so that the regime cannot kidnap the wounded is run by young feminists. An important hotline that protesters call when they need help is staffed by LGBT activists.
On January 16, the Ukrainian government, headed by President Yanukovych, tried to put an end to Ukrainian civil society. A series of laws passed hastily and without following normal procedure did away with freedom of speech and assembly, and removed the few remaining checks on executive authority. This was intended to turn Ukraine into a dictatorship and to make all participants in the Maidan, by then probably numbering in the low millions, into criminals. The result was that the protests, until then entirely peaceful, became violent. Yanukovych lost support, even in his political base in the southeast, near the Russian border.
After weeks of responding peacefully to arrests and beatings by the riot police, many Ukrainians had had enough. A fraction of the protesters, some but by no means all representatives of the political right and far right, decided to take the fight to the police. Among them were members of the far-right party Svoboda and a new conglomeration of nationalists who call themselves the Right Sector (Pravyi Sektor). Young men, some of them from right-wing groups and others not, tried to take by force the public spaces claimed by the riot police. Young Jewish men formed their own combat group, or sotnia, to take the fight to the authorities.
Although Yanukovych rescinded most of the dictatorship laws, lawless violence by the regime, which started in November, continued into February. Members of the opposition were shot and killed, or hosed down in freezing temperatures to die of hypothermia. Others were tortured and left in the woods to die.
The protests in the Maidan, we are told again and again by Russian propaganda and by the Kremlin’s friends in Ukraine, mean the return of National Socialism to Europe. The Russian foreign minister, in Munich, lectured the Germans about their support of people who salute Hitler. The Russian media continually make the claim that the Ukrainians who protest are Nazis. Naturally, it is important to be attentive to the far right in Ukrainian politics and history. It is still a serious presence today, although less important than the far right in France, Austria, or the Netherlands. Yet it is the Ukrainian regime rather than its opponents that resorts to anti-Semitism, instructing its riot police that the opposition is led by Jews. In other words, the Ukrainian government is telling itself that its opponents are Jews and us that its opponents are Nazis.
Buy that cheap ammo while you can, because there is an ammo shortage in this country and Ukraine is one of the only cheap sources we have as of the moment.
I have knowledge of europian politics and nyt is doing a disgusting thing and is comparing svoboda which are skinhead neo nazi thugs to geert wilders and his political party pvv in Netherlands who is anti islamic staunch pro Israel conserve party
And there are similar groups in the West with similar vote %. Do we let Russia roll in and take over? Heck, the Chinese Nationalist Party was a fascist party. They took massive amounts of aid from Hitler during the Sino-Japanese War. Should we not have backed the Chinese with arms, equipment and personnel against the Japanese? The Kuwaitis, like the rest of the Arabs, have always hated both Israel and the Jews. Should we have stood by after Iraq invaded and annexed Kuwait?
The one constant in the last several centuries about Russia is its zeal for land grabs. What you've missed is the far larger Russian historical responsibility - in particular the Russian material support and training for Korean and Vietnamese communists that killed 100K GI's. Russia's Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with Nazi Germany gave Germany a free hand to invade the West and Russia provided Germany's supplies for the invasion. As a result, millions more Jews were killed than would otherwise have been during the Holocaust. What about the 400K GI's who died because of a war the Russians made possible?
Some “conservatives” believe the bankrupt United States is still world Robocop.
Shhh, we’re supposed to believe Svoboda and Pravny Sektor are misunderstood. The straight-arm salutes and calls to kill the Jews are just misunderstood.
I never said there were no other such parties in europe , ataka in Bulgaria, Jobbik in Hungary , npd in germany , golden dawn in Greece are large political parties that are openly neo nazi ,
its odd to for nyt to pick out Austria,France and the Netherlands three nations that do not have any significant openly neo nazi parties
Shhh, there are no fascist parties in Europe, all that matters is that Russia did something.
Indeed theres no neo nazism in ukraine at all , no sir not at all
two violent anti Semitic attacks , indeed lets just ignore the huge neo nazi elephant in the room
If the Ukrainians were suicidal Nazis to the last man, woman and child, all yearning to kill all the Jews and Slavs in Ukraine to make way for Nordic settlement, it would still make sense to help them repel the Russians, for exactly the same reason that it made sense to send material aid to help the Soviets repel the Nazis despite the Russian betrayal via the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact that made gave Hitler a free hand in the West, and the tens of millions deliberately starved to death by the Bolsheviks during their collectivization campaigns. The key difference here? Ukrainians haven't actually massacred tens of millions of people. The Russians had.
you do know communism is dead in russia right?
And by definition Russia is more capitalistic then usa with lower corporate tax and lower income tax then usa
Russian tank tread lubricant
Brought to you by the GAY one.
Too bad Bandera and crew pissed off the Poles, Ukrainians and the AK could have made a good team.
The issue has never been communism, but Russian imperialism. The Bolsheviks reconstituted the Russian empire in spite of their stated concerned about international brotherhood. Brotherhood, that is, as Russian provinces. The collapse of the Soviet Union wasn't, in Putin's words, "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century". It was the moment that prisoners of the Russian empire cast off their shackles, almost 30 years after the last outposts of European imperialism were finally given up.
Let the Russians have the Crimea as long as the Ukraine keeps the rest of their coastline. The Ukraine is in political chaos and needs to spend it’s energy on getting it self back in order.
"If the Ukrainians were suicidal Nazis to the last man, woman and child, all yearning to kill all the Jews and Slavs in Ukraine to make way for Nordic settlement, it would still make sense to help them repel the Russians"
"Too bad Bandera and crew pissed off the Poles, Ukrainians and the AK could have made a good team."Only in a wishful thinking way, though. He hated Russians, Jews and Poles, probably in that exact order. I don't think he could rise above that basic creed.
We are debating national, not parochial interests. From a strictly tribal standpoint, I understand where you're coming from. Ultimately, though a bigger Russia is a more dangerous Russia, and strategic threats from empire-builders predate Communism and Nazism by thousands of years and will undoubtedly be around thousands of years after nobody remembers either ideology.
The Ukrainian fringe probably hates Jews for similar reasons - a good many senior Bolsheviks were Jews. Trotsky, in particular, felt that the Soviets were being too soft in slaughtering opponents of the collectivization program. These Ukrainian fringe is presumably suggesting that Jews should be collectively punished for the deaths of 7m Ukrainians through the efforts of Jewish Bolsheviks during the Holodomor just as you are suggesting that Ukrainians as a whole should be punished by the Russians for the views of the Ukrainian fringe.
I understand the point you’re trying to make.
In a strictly national interest sense it is against American national interest to allow any hegemon to dominate on the Eurasian continent, no matter what civilization or ethnic makeup they represent. Communist, Buddhist, Orthodox Christian... we will always be at war (cold or hot) with Eurasia. Even if the Russian Empire never had a revolution, and there was never USSR, it would come to having to limit their influence and scope.