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American Atheists President: Conservatives 'Pretend Christianity Still Holds Water' in USA
Big Government ^ | 3/1/2014 | Dr. Susan Berry

Posted on 03/02/2014 2:54:18 AM PST by markomalley

In an interview with Salon, the president of American Atheists reviewed the decision of the American Conservative Union (ACU) to rescind his organization’s invitation to CPAC. David Silverman charges that the ACU is both “pretending” that “atheists aren’t relevant” and that “Christianity still holds water in American society.”

When asked about his reported “pledge” to “attack the very idea that Christianity is an important element of conservatism,” Silverman responded that while “I did say that I was going to attack the idea that Christianity and conservatism were inseparable,” he was not waging “an attack on people of faith.”

“I wanted to raise the awareness that there were atheists in the ranks, and I wanted to raise the awareness that those atheists – at least some of them – think that Christianity can easily and should easily be divorced from conservatism,” Silverman told Josh Eidelson of Slate.

Practically in the same breath that Silverman said Christianity no longer “holds water in America,” he also stated, “There is nothing in my tone that sounded aggressive toward a person, or trashed Christianity in any way.”

Eidelson reminded Silverman that American Atheists’ public relations director recently wrote:

Setting aside the fact that religions are dangerous and false, separation of religion and government is absolutely necessary because if any religion co-opts legislature, it means that no other religion is free to practice as that legislature pertains to their beliefs. The range of applications is nearly unlimited: Marriage equality, right-to-die, abortion, birth control, sex ed, science education, science funding, religious school funding, liquor sales, business hours, employment discrimination, the list goes on and on and on.


(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: atheism; christians; liberalism; libertarianism; meandmyhouse; servethelord
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1 posted on 03/02/2014 2:54:18 AM PST by markomalley
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To: markomalley

Atheists were around when we became an independent nation. John Adams said it best (IIRC) “That’s their problem”.


2 posted on 03/02/2014 2:56:23 AM PST by Sacajaweau
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To: markomalley

At the very last minute of life I am willing to bet they have a change of heart or at least call out his name


3 posted on 03/02/2014 3:47:21 AM PST by ronnie raygun (zippy the a##clown sez..............................)
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To: markomalley

I’m going to read this later but I assume these so-called conservative atheists are really men and women who don’t like paying taxes. Same with Log Cabin Repubs.


4 posted on 03/02/2014 4:02:36 AM PST by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: markomalley
We get all bent out off shape about tools like this guy…but we never, never never, ask the right question.

Who is paying him to get out there and act like an idiot every day?

Even Rush tends to go along with the notion that this is 100% ideologically driven. Not! Somebody's paying this piper.

5 posted on 03/02/2014 4:06:08 AM PST by Mamzelle
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To: markomalley

...Proverbs 1:24-33

English Standard Version (ESV)

24 Because I have called and you refused to listen,
have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded,
25 because you have ignored all my counsel
and would have none of my reproof,
26 I also will laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when terror strikes you,
27 when terror strikes you like a storm
and your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
when distress and anguish come upon you.
28 Then they will call upon me, but I will not answer;
they will seek me diligently but will not find me.
29 Because they hated knowledge
and did not choose the fear of the Lord,
30 would have none of my counsel
and despised all my reproof,
31 therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way,
and have their fill of their own devices.
32 For the simple are killed by their turning away,
and the complacency of fools destroys them;
33 but whoever listens to me will dwell secure
and will be at ease, without dread of disaster.””...
http://www.Biblegateway.com


6 posted on 03/02/2014 4:12:23 AM PST by jazzlite (esat)
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To: markomalley

Some things are incompatible with conservatism.

It is preposterous that CPAC extends invitations to atheists and sodomites. What’s next? “Conservative” members of NARAL with a booth at CPAC?


7 posted on 03/02/2014 4:25:15 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: ronnie raygun

Reminds me of the old silly joke about, “When atheists are making love, who do they call out to - ‘Oh non-existent supernatural being! Oh non-existent supernatural being’”?


8 posted on 03/02/2014 4:28:09 AM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Maybe NAMBLA will demand a seat at the CPAC table.

Anyway, since atheists regard themselves as walking piles of randomly assembled compost that haven’t croaked yet, why should I care what they think?


9 posted on 03/02/2014 4:29:01 AM PST by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: markomalley
Sadly, he's right. We have kicked God and ESPECIALLY JESUS out of AMerica....and we conservative Christians have let them!

I am not trying to stop this by giving money to Jay Sekalow's group, ACLJ...anyone else willing to start fighting??

10 posted on 03/02/2014 4:38:24 AM PST by Ann Archy (Abortion......the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Mamzelle

Emporer Soros is, of course.


11 posted on 03/02/2014 5:09:06 AM PST by jsanders2001
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To: jazzlite

Great verses from Proverbs! Thanks for posting!


12 posted on 03/02/2014 5:17:24 AM PST by Lake Living
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To: markomalley; Liz
Setting aside the fact that religions are dangerous and false, separation of religion and government is absolutely necessary because if any religion co-opts legislature, it means that no other religion is free to practice as that legislature pertains to their beliefs.

Muslims should no longer be exempt from Husseincare?

13 posted on 03/02/2014 5:24:55 AM PST by Libloather (Embrace the suck)
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To: markomalley

The Faith still holds a lot of water, and not all of it in baptismal fonts. And since Atheism, a faith in a negative and a belief that what is tangible to human senses is real and all there is (well disproven by modern quantum physics), cannot by definition be either proven or true, fellows like this are just bags of ignorance and useless hot air. All that being said, they’re awfully lucky we’re not Muslims.


14 posted on 03/02/2014 6:06:50 AM PST by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: miss marmelstein

A libertarian is a liberal who hates paying taxes.


15 posted on 03/02/2014 6:11:43 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: dennisw

...and likes Colorado drug laws.


16 posted on 03/02/2014 6:13:43 AM PST by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: markomalley

There is a certain amount of amusement in reading this guy’s ‘fears’ about Christians.

What is it about Christians, living a Biblical life, that just sets the non-believer on such a fearful tangent?

What does it matter to him, what working hours a Christian keeps? If I don’t want to work on Sunday in honor of the Lord, what is it truly to him?

What does it matter to him if I strive to keep the commandments of God? Does keeping those commandments harm or hurt the community as a whole? Or do they actually strengthen those bonds?

Yes, his lifestyle is not ‘approved’ by my faith in God, but that is between him and ?. It is as though they are jealous of the Grace we carry within our souls, the Grace they choose to deny the existence of...

God’s Word is the lamp unto my feet in this life. It is not up to you, mere man, to judge that Light. And yes, it is the Wisdom of God and the Wisdom of the Ages that informs my conservative nature. It is the natural Law that sets all men free.


17 posted on 03/02/2014 6:21:19 AM PST by EBH ( The Day of the Patriot has arrived.)
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To: markomalley

Silverman - hmmmmmmm.


18 posted on 03/02/2014 6:23:07 AM PST by Hacksaw (I haven't taken the 30 silvers.)
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To: markomalley

This guy is a real piece of ****


19 posted on 03/02/2014 6:55:17 AM PST by Viennacon
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To: markomalley

But he’s right. Christianity and conservatism are NOT inseparable. Many, many liberals are Christian. They think of Jesus as the man who said that we should feed the poor, not stone the prostitute, share the loaves and fishes, and let’s not forget that eye-of-the-needle remark and the story of the Good Samaritan. The Jesus of the Bible is ambiguous enough that he could be a spokesman for either side, depending on which quotes you use. And let’s face it: all black churches are liberal.


20 posted on 03/02/2014 7:14:44 AM PST by A_perfect_lady ("A liberal... declares a policy to be a moral imperative based on his emotional reaction to it.")
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To: Arthur McGowan

Since Atheists do not believe in any God, I would think that they would be opposed to making a “God” out of the state. Therefore, I can see a place for them in the conservative movement.


21 posted on 03/02/2014 7:23:03 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: markomalley
Unfortunately, the Left isn't alone in thinking that G-d rises or falls with chrstianity (as if G-d hadn't been worshiped for three thousand years before chrstianity ever existed). Unfortunately, we Noachides aren't even a blip on the radar screen right now (and maybe not until Mashiach comes).

Meanwhile, these "atheists" are only opposed to a certain kind of chrstian. They're big fans of Black "fundamentalists" and Hispanic "Catholics." Because that's "different," you see.

22 posted on 03/02/2014 7:40:40 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: A_perfect_lady
But he’s right. Christianity and conservatism are NOT inseparable. Many, many liberals are Christian. They think of Jesus as the man who said that we should feed the poor, not stone the prostitute, share the loaves and fishes, and let’s not forget that eye-of-the-needle remark and the story of the Good Samaritan. The Jesus of the Bible is ambiguous enough that he could be a spokesman for either side, depending on which quotes you use. And let’s face it: all black churches are liberal.

Exactly. This is one of the best posts I've ever read here.

J*sus the demigod is a conservative. J*sus the moral philosopher is a liberal.

I predict that one day Martin Luther King Jr. will be turned into a conservative demigod by people who refuse to see how radical and secular he was.

23 posted on 03/02/2014 7:46:00 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: reg45

If you were right, the Bolsheviks would have been small-government people.

They don’t not believe in “any God.” They don’t believe in God.

They have their gods.


24 posted on 03/02/2014 8:36:26 AM PST by Arthur McGowan
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To: markomalley
Regarding atheists, the book My Descent into Death, a Second Chance at Life, by Howard Storm, should be read by each atheist and fellow traveler lest their spiritual death become everlasting.

His testimony is the alarm clock that has no "Sleep" button and should become a part of their rational.

25 posted on 03/02/2014 9:02:39 AM PST by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: EBH
It is as though they are jealous of the Grace we carry within our souls, the Grace they choose to deny the existence of...

I believe that it is not they who are jealous of the Grace we carry....it is Satan himself that hates Grace. Atheists don't believe in any gods, but are controlled by a supernatural being as sure as I'm sitting here. They just do not know it.

26 posted on 03/02/2014 9:09:32 AM PST by hoagy62 ("Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered..."-Thomas Paine. 1776)
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To: reg45
Since Atheists do not believe in any God, I would think that they would be opposed to making a “God” out of the state. Therefore, I can see a place for them in the conservative movement.

Very astute observation. Plenty of conservatives have opined that liberalism is a pseudo-religion. And it is. But that means it is embraced by people who want or need a religion. Those of us who have no space in our heads for religion of any kind are no more likely to choose liberalism than conservatism. For us, it boils down to who makes the best argument, or to what we have observed. I think Ayn Rand makes a better argument than Karl Marx, and my observations are that the more largess the government distributes, the lazier and more self-indulgent the recipients become. I have seen it with my own eyes. Thus I am conservative.

27 posted on 03/02/2014 10:09:49 AM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

Atheism allows for no ultimate objective source of individual sovereignty.

The only kind of individual sovereignty consistent with atheism is the subjective kind, which makes it no different, ultimately, from any form of liberalism.


28 posted on 03/02/2014 10:19:56 AM PST by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: A_perfect_lady

The Jesus of the Bible is only ambiguous to those who don’t read the Bible.

There are key attributes of Christ which are absolute and definitive, such as his blood atonement and what he says in John 14:6.

Liberal Christianity rejects these things. Thus liberal Christianity is what Jesus called the spirit of antichrist.


29 posted on 03/02/2014 10:25:16 AM PST by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: markomalley

What a fool


30 posted on 03/02/2014 10:30:30 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: miss marmelstein

I bet 90% of GOP Proud are volunteers for Democrat candidates


31 posted on 03/02/2014 10:31:12 AM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: A_perfect_lady

The other pseudo-religion is environmentalism. Heretics are figuratively burned at the stake for denying or even being skeptical about AGW.


32 posted on 03/02/2014 10:32:45 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: A_perfect_lady

Jesus DID say those things, to individuals.

He did not say to do it by stealing from others, under law, to help your conscience, to make it easier than you having to do it yourself.

A liberal might say they are a Christian, but that ‘spirit’ does not bear witness with mine.

Jesus in the Bible (and in my life) is NOT ambiguous at all.


33 posted on 03/02/2014 10:42:56 AM PST by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
J*sus the demigod is a conservative. J*sus the moral philosopher is a liberal.

And what is the Jesus of history, who is neither a demigod nor a moral philosopher?

34 posted on 03/02/2014 3:12:24 PM PST by RansomOttawa (tm)
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To: markomalley
Eidelson reminded Silverman that American Atheists’ public relations director recently wrote:

Setting aside the fact that religions are dangerous and false, separation of religion and government is absolutely necessary because if any religion co-opts legislature, it means that no other religion is free to practice as that legislature pertains to their beliefs. The range of applications is nearly unlimited: Marriage equality, right-to-die, abortion, birth control, sex ed, science education, science funding, religious school funding, liquor sales, business hours, employment discrimination, the list goes on and on and on.

So what? WHY should anyone live according to the atoms banging around in this finite atheist's head? There isn't any foundation there for the objective morality and the universal, invariant, and abstract entities such as propositions, principles, reason, general laws, the laws of logic, etc. he assumes a priori in his sermonizing.

35 posted on 03/02/2014 4:36:26 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: reasonisfaith
Theism doesn't make much an objective source of individual sovereignty either, particularly Christianity. Jesus said "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's." You can be sovereign of your soul (whatever that means) and still be under the thumb of tyranny, that was never the concern of Christianity; the usual interpretation of Jesus is that he will take his followers to a New Kingdom of Heaven, and American politics won't have much to do with it.

There is really no point in trying to make the God of Israel into a lynch-pin for American politics; that mindset doesn't fit onto the American continuum anywhere on the spectrum. It was a tribal creation from a time when religion and politics were one, as in modern day Saudi Arabia.

And you can insist that any interpretation of Jesus' teachings is wrong if it doesn't coincide with yours, but I don't know if you really have the last word on such matters. The fact is, millions of Christians worldwide are not American conservatives. If you are one of those who thinks everyone is wrong except you and those who think like you, I won't bother arguing further, but it's not a very well-supported stance.

36 posted on 03/02/2014 4:54:15 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: RoadGumby

Never once have I seen anything in the Jesus of the Bible to indicate that he would have disapproved of the government using taxes to help the poor. Please, show me where you get that idea.


37 posted on 03/02/2014 4:56:12 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

Well. Let’s see. Jesus came and spoke to people..... individuals. He told them YOU help the poor. YOU love them.

I do not recall Him going to the govt, to Caesar, and giving commandments for govt to do so (by TAKING). Why?

For YOU are to give ( keyword here is GIVE). That involves a sacrifice on your part. Willingly.

For YOU to replace your GIVING with the TAKING from others is to use a ‘theft’ to justify your reduction in giving, because FedGov has that covered.

You show me where Jesus told Caesar to use Govt monies (TAKEN by force and arguably CAUSING more ‘poverty’) so that poor people can be helped.

Yours is an insidious Liberal argument.


38 posted on 03/02/2014 5:15:41 PM PST by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby
He held up a coin and asked whose picture was on it. Then he said "Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar." That would be: your money. Your money belongs to the government.

I'll ask again. Give me ONE QUOTE where he says that the government should not use your money to help the poor.

39 posted on 03/02/2014 5:19:49 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

If you know anyone who practices injecting one’s own invented meaning into a text, let them know it’s called postmodernism and it doesn’t make sense. The postmodern method is self-refuting. (With respect, I should say this is what you did with the “render unto Caesar” reference.)

The concept of individual sovereignty goes back way more than American politics. It started with Christianity. Christianity is the only historical/philosophical source for it. Conservatism is defined by the principle of individual sovereignty.

Love is one of those things essential to human experience, and it is intimately connected with truth. I sense in your remarks a desire to conform to truth.


40 posted on 03/02/2014 6:59:08 PM PST by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: A_perfect_lady

Yes he did say that. And followed it with ‘render unto God what is Gods’.

The idea that coined money belongs to the govt, not to the person who earned it, is a Liberal idea. ( Just like a Dem talking point).

So. You deny that the onus, given by Jesus, to help the poor, was directed at you? Personally?

So, apparently, in your Gospel, the Savior came to reform and save govt, not sinners.


41 posted on 03/02/2014 7:41:12 PM PST by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: reasonisfaith
There is nothing post-modern about what I said. Look at Matthew 22: the Jews asked Jesus if they should pay taxes to Caesar, and he told them to give Caesar what belonged to Caesar. Caesar's face was on the money, so give it to him. There really is no other way you can interpret it.

Perhaps you could explain to me what you mean by the phrase individual sovereignty, and why it means that the government is forbidden to use tax money to help the poor, and how Jesus makes this clear. If you could just find one quote... ONE QUOTE that makes it clear that Jesus disapproved of the government helping the poor, I'd be ever so grateful. I keep asking and asking for this, but no one seems able to supply it.

42 posted on 03/02/2014 7:46:41 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: RoadGumby

That’s right, render unto God what is God’s. So your soul belongs to God but your money, according to Jesus, belongs to the face on it. It’s what he said.


43 posted on 03/02/2014 7:51:18 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

Jesus effectively said “pay your taxes”.

He did Not go before a govt and say “Help the poor”.

He did tell you to do that though. You personally, with Your resources.

Do you vote Dem? You seem to view other peoples money as your own.

And while we are chatting this subject.... YOU show me where FedGov has the Constitutional power to redistribute monies.

Again, YOU may distribute your resources as YOU see fit (do you tithe? Render unto God.......). But you are not free to do so with other peoples.


44 posted on 03/02/2014 7:57:54 PM PST by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby
Why do you suppose Jesus didn't go to Caesar and say "Help the poor?" Could it have something to do with how long it takes to get from Jerusalem to Rome on a donkey? I think it might have. It is 2,500 miles. Of course, he could walk on water so I suppose he could have taken the short way...

But the fact remains, that if Jesus had been opposed to the government helping the poor, he'd have said so. Jesus had a tendency to be very clear about things he disapproved of (I can think of a few moneylenders with some stories to tell.) But oddly, he never said a word against helping the poor, be it by private funds or public.

As far as the right of the Fed to redistribute money, they have no right. I'm actually on your side. What I am saying is, Jesus really wasn't on your side. He wasn't an American conservative. That's why there are so many Christians out there who are liberals. Jesus pre-dates American politics.

You DO understand Jesus wasn't American, right?

45 posted on 03/02/2014 8:07:11 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady
But the fact remains, that if Jesus had been opposed to the government helping the poor, he'd have said so. Jesus had a tendency to be very clear about things he disapproved of (I can think of a few moneylenders with some stories to tell.) But oddly, he never said a word against helping the poor, be it by private funds or public.

Fallacious Argument from silence

Cordially,

46 posted on 03/02/2014 8:51:38 PM PST by Diamond (He has erected a multitude of new offices, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our people,)
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To: Diamond

There’s nothing fallacious about it. If Jesus disapproved of something, he said so. That Jesus would disapprove of the government taking from the rich and giving to the poor is laughable.


47 posted on 03/02/2014 9:09:45 PM PST by A_perfect_lady
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To: A_perfect_lady

Jesus was not sanctioning tyrannical government. He was first of all turning the trap meant for him back on the Jews, exposing their hypocrisy. And he was making the distinction between tyrannical government—as inherent to the fallen nature of the world—and the supreme authority of God.

Caesar (the world, and all evil) vs God (the Spirit, and all good).

The sovereignty of the individual means the individual has an intrinsic value which cannot be displaced or outweighed by that of any other individual. This comes from the heart of Jesus’ message that each individual is cherished by him and invited to enjoy the glory of the Father through him.

Luke 12:7 “But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.”

Luke 15:10 “Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God over one sinner who repents.”

That each individual has value in God’s eyes is extremely powerful. Powerful as an idea, but even more so because it’s true. It breathed life into the philosophy underlying democratic principles, and planted the seed in the minds of common people that they had no less value than the ruling class. Culminating in the principles of liberty in our U.S. Constitution. There is no liberty without God.

Jesus teaches us to make the moral choice to take care of the poor. Taxation by the government eliminates free choice in the matter, stealing the opportunity for the individual to make a moral decision to help the poor. Seen in this light, taxation is the opposite of what Jesus wants.

Matthew 19:21, “Jesus said to him, ‘If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.’”

Also Mark 10:21, and Luke 18:22.


48 posted on 03/02/2014 9:51:18 PM PST by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: A_perfect_lady

I’m not saying taxes are completely wrong. I think they’re necessary for basic functioning of society, and beyond that it’s God’s will that we generally obey the laws of our government.

But I do believe the poor would do a lot better if their care were left to private sources of charity rather than government.


49 posted on 03/02/2014 9:58:22 PM PST by reasonisfaith ("...because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." (2 Thessalonians))
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To: dennisw

That’s complete BS.


50 posted on 03/02/2014 10:17:48 PM PST by Yardstick
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