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Welcome to the Era of Failed States
Zero Hedge ^ | 03/03/14 | James H. Kunstler

Posted on 03/03/2014 2:16:39 PM PST by Pining_4_TX

What the USA and its European factotums ought to do is mind their own business and stop issuing idle threats. They set the scene for the Ukrainian melt-down by trying to tilt the government their way, financing a pro-Euroland revolt, only to see their sponsored proxy dissidents give way to a claque of armed neo-Nazis, whose first official act was to outlaw the use of the Russian language in a country with millions of long-established Russian-speakers. This is apart, of course, from the fact Ukraine had been until very recently a province of Russia’s former Soviet empire.

(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: russia; ukraine; war
Great line from the story... John Kerry, a haircut in search of a brain.
1 posted on 03/03/2014 2:16:39 PM PST by Pining_4_TX
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2 posted on 03/03/2014 2:17:27 PM PST by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: Pining_4_TX

Yeah, that is a great line, and true.

But Kerry doesn’t have much responsibility for what’s occuring now in the Ukraine.
It was the years of incompetence by Hillary and Obama that set the stage for today’s event.


3 posted on 03/03/2014 2:22:44 PM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: Pining_4_TX

I’m going out on a limb, here, but I’m guessing this author is a lefty.


4 posted on 03/03/2014 2:26:04 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Pining_4_TX

This whole thing in Ukraine is nothing but a regional civil war, with the Eastern part of the country wanting closer ties with Russia and the Western part wanting closer ties to the EU.


5 posted on 03/03/2014 2:30:13 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: Pining_4_TX
a claque of armed neo-Nazis, whose first official act was to outlaw the use of the Russian language in a country with millions of long-established Russian-speaker

Complete bullshit.

6 posted on 03/03/2014 2:37:51 PM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: Pining_4_TX

It took Presidents Reagan and Bush almost 11 years to bring the USSR to its knees.

Obama has only been working to destroy the USA for a little more than five years and the nation is already starting to crumble.


7 posted on 03/03/2014 2:39:05 PM PST by Iron Munro (Albert Einstein: The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits)
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To: Pining_4_TX

So I’m starting to see pro-Russia and pro-Ukraine propaganda, including stuff from both sides assuring us that the other side is neo-Nazi.

I can think of good arguments for Russia to seize Crimea and for that matter, western Ukraine. And if they go that far, why stop there?

And I can’t think of any reason for us to get involved directly.

There is a lot of talk about international law and treaties and all the rest, and we are realizing that none of it matters if you aren’t prepared for the “what if”... What if they are prepared to shed blood and you aren’t.

Ukrainians have to decide and quickly how much their territory and sovereignty is worth to them. Are they prepared to shed blood for it?

I am sure that, as other articles have assured us, the Ukrainian military is no match for the Russians, at least on paper. But it really comes down to a willingness to fight. If they are willing to fight, they can turn it around albeit at a considerable cost. If they are not, its over already. They will have to settle for independence in a smaller territory, or settle for being a Russian province.


8 posted on 03/03/2014 2:52:41 PM PST by marron
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Closer tie, since Russia is now fully in control they definitely got “closer ties”.

Being ruled from Moscow is like that


9 posted on 03/03/2014 2:55:03 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Pining_4_TX
Welcome to the Era of Failed States

Well darn!

It looks like every other era.

Or was there some era that didn't have failed states?

10 posted on 03/03/2014 2:56:33 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: Pining_4_TX

How in the world can you outlaw the use of a language ? By the stroke of a pen, I guess.


11 posted on 03/03/2014 2:58:35 PM PST by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: Pining_4_TX
Kuntsler is a lefty, but has gained readers among conservatives for his writings about societal collapse and prepping.

This constant railing that anyone wanting freedom in Ukraine is a neo-Nazi is an utter lie. Kuntsler and others seem to want Putin to take over Ukraine again like in the good old Soviet days. Screw him.

12 posted on 03/03/2014 3:09:09 PM PST by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
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To: Pining_4_TX
Russian language in a country with millions of long-established Russian-speakers...

Isn't Russian spoken in this area because during USSR days, the soviets purposely settled Russian speakers outside of Russia just to set up this rationale?

13 posted on 03/03/2014 3:16:15 PM PST by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
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To: mrsmith

Let’s not overlook Kerry’s self-inflated, oafish role in this entire episode

When Putin considers the American leaders arrayed against himself and Russia in this endeavor, Putin’s greatest fear is peeing himself from laughing so hard that he loses control of his bladder.


14 posted on 03/03/2014 3:36:33 PM PST by Delta Dawn (Fluent in two languages: English and cursive.)
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To: Pining_4_TX
While I share the author's skepticism concerning the likelihood of any successful U.S. military intervention, the truth is that nearly nobody in DC really is beating the war drums except for a bit of futile posturing. That does not excuse the 0bama administration's lack of preparation for the event, however.

I also don't think that mere geographic proximity is excuse sufficient for the intervention into a state that is undergoing constitutional stress - an unstable state is not a failed state, after all, and the first resort should always be for a solution that stems from the citizens' self-determination, not from outsiders.

The accusation we're hearing that the EU destabilized the state deliberately by offering an economic arrangement is a little suspect, frankly, or at least if that were the plan it turned out to be pretty incompetent one. Russia has countered through Clausewitz's "politics by other means", which was not at all unpredictable. It's too late for the prevention that should have been the object of State Department policy had the 0bama administration bothered to pay attention to that. If now they look like fools, whose fault was that?

15 posted on 03/03/2014 3:52:21 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: marron

I don’t think Putin wants the burden of Ukraine’s terrible economy.
“Now, Gazprom is considering raising prices on March 1 unless Ukraine pays $1.55 billion for owed fuel costs”


16 posted on 03/03/2014 4:01:38 PM PST by griswold3 (Post-Christian America is living on borrowed moral heritage)
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To: Pining_4_TX
only to see their sponsored proxy dissidents give way to a claque of armed neo-Nazis, whose first official act was to outlaw the use of the Russian language in a country with millions of long-established Russian-speakers.

Nothing of the sort. The new government repealed the 2012 law and returned the country to how it functioned for the previous 20 years. During that time, Russian language newspapers, TV channels, websites, books, and so on existed freely, forming more than half of all media. Nobody was forcing Ukrainian on them. The only thing the law asked was that government official business was to be done in Ukrainian.

You can tell the pro-Kremlin agenda of the article from the label "neo-nazi". Read with caution

17 posted on 03/03/2014 4:22:52 PM PST by Ivan Mazepa
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To: marron

IMO, I think the Ukraine will fight IF they can get some support. They have the manpower to create huge problems for Russia. They are certainly not unaccustomed to heavy loss of life, historically speaking.* But they don’t have the weapons.

* http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/page-29.html

That said, the Ukraine was foolish to not at least trade each nuke they gave up back in the ‘90’s for an equivalent monetary cost non-nuke weapon of modern (at the time) manufacture. They’d be armed to the teeth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

As for why get involved? Because if we don’t honor our security guarantees to the Ukraine, we have indeed shown such paper to be useless, and guaranteed nuclear proliferation in the next several years that will make Iran seem like a trifle. Putin might be well advised to take all of the Ukraine now, because otherwise, the Ukraine will join Japan, Taiwan, S. Korea, and quite possibly several other nations with nukes. There is no way we can stop it.


18 posted on 03/03/2014 4:38:42 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Ivan Mazepa

Agreed. Also... has the Ukrainian Parliament actually changed members (and party affiliations) to any significant degree? Have the real powers in the Ukraine, the industrial and financial oligarchs who pull the strings, suddenly become a “claque of armed Neo-Nazis”?

(I know, those are mostly rhetorical questions.)


19 posted on 03/03/2014 4:52:05 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: C210N
Russian is probably spoken in this area because until 1954 the Crimea and surrounding areas were a part of Russia.
20 posted on 03/03/2014 4:53:26 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Ivan Mazepa; All

Long long ago, in a thread far, far away (ok, in a thread a few days ago that I’ve lost track of), someone was suggesting that the EU / Ukraine “association” deal would benefit Saudi Arabia greatly, which would lead to increased funding of terrorism. Now, the Saudis (and Iran and Qatar) DO have huge gas reserves, so I assume the poster was talking about some sort of immense pipeline project to follow up the deal, which would then give Europe an alternative to Russian gas.

It goes without saying that if the pipeline network could also tie into the Ukraine’s pipelines, then Russia’s stranglehold on the Ukraine would also be broken.

However: For one thing, to wean Europe off the Russian gas “teat”, this would literally be the “Mother of all pipeline projects”, with huge security concerns to follow. For another, it appears the Saudis will be doing well in the next 10 years to simply supply their own internal consumption of natural gas.

http://www.eia.gov/countries/cab.cfm?fips=SA

Put simply, it’s hard for me to see how the Ukraine leaning toward the EU benefits radical Muslims anytime soon, if ever.

On the other hand, and I’m no expert, it DOES seem to me that for the Ukraine to depend on the EU for financial “support” is sort of a “lesser of the evils”, and not by a whole lot.

After reading the Wikipedia article* on the Ukraine’s economy (probably flawed info., but not a bad introduction overall?) I see a country with tremendous potential, but badly encumbered by corruption and the oligarch system. The Ukraine does not need the EU “association” for economic success, it needs to take an independent course, (somehow) enact and enforce very harsh penalties for corruption, enact more (internal) free market reforms, and “let ‘er rip.”

Last, I would note that the Ukraine has everything it needs to arm and defend itself, given a little time and a lot of will.

Am I wrong in any of this?

*BTW, the Wikipedia article should be required reading for anyone commenting in these threads. It’s really quite fascinating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Ukraine


21 posted on 03/03/2014 7:04:46 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: justa-hairyape
"How in the world can you outlaw the use of a language ? By the stroke of a pen, I guess."

In Russia, the sword is mightier than the pen.

There was a time (1700's??) that it was illegal to speak or use the Ukrainian language in Ukraine. Russian was forced on the Ukrainians. There's nothing wrong for the Ukrainians to demand that their language be used in their Country.

22 posted on 03/03/2014 8:34:02 PM PST by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: 1rudeboy

I have no idea. Never heard of him. However, I don’t know why it is leftist to wonder about what is true and what isn’t in any conflict. As someone once said, the first casualty of war is the truth.

How many times have we been lied to by politicians? I don’t trust any of them.


23 posted on 03/03/2014 9:15:14 PM PST by Pining_4_TX (All those who were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48)
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To: Paul R.

Energy security, business interests and geopolitics definitely play a part in this conflict. But what I subscribe most readily to, is that this conflict is the latest act of national liberation of Ukraine from Russia. Yes, in 1991 the country became independent, but that wasn’t full independence. There were too many links to Russia, too many decisions that had to be approved by Russia. They called Strategic Partnership, but really, Russia was just holding Ukraine on a short leash. In 2004, there was a brief hope that the two countries would be on equal footing, but because of political immaturity and personal greed, that chance was wasted.

So again in 2014, another chance to leave Moscow’s orbit. Maybe this time around, with this many dead people, it has enough ‘escape velocity’ to do that.
Or maybe it’s doomed forever to have a Russian master.


24 posted on 03/04/2014 4:35:38 PM PST by Ivan Mazepa
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