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4 Reasons Putin Is Already Losing in Ukraine (Oh, brother)
Time Magazine ^ | March 3, 2014 | Simon Shuster in Simferopol

Posted on 03/04/2014 2:07:29 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

Even a week ago, the idea of a Russian military intervention in Ukraine seemed far-fetched if not totally alarmist. The risks involved were just too enormous for President Vladimir Putin and for the country he has ruled for 14 years. But the arrival of Russian troops in Crimea over the weekend has shown that he is not averse to reckless adventures, even ones that offer little gain. In the coming days and weeks, Putin will have to decide how far he is prepared to take this intervention and how much he is prepared to suffer for it. It is already clear, however, that he cannot emerge as the winner of this conflict, at least not when the damage is weighed against the gains. It will at best be a Pyrrhic victory, and at worst an utter catastrophe. Here’s why:

At home, this intervention looks to be one of the most unpopular decisions Putin has ever made. The Kremlin’s own pollster released a survey on Monday that showed 73% of Russians reject it. In phrasing its question posed in early February to 1,600 respondents across the country, the state-funded sociologists at WCIOM were clearly trying to get as much support for the intervention as possible: “Should Russia react to the overthrow of the legally elected authorities in Ukraine?” they asked. Only 15% said yes — hardly a national consensus....

(Excerpt) Read more at world.time.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Politics/Elections; Russia
KEYWORDS: crimea; obama; polls; putin; russia; ukraine
Remind me if Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Tojo or Mussolini gave a rat's rear-end about polls.
1 posted on 03/04/2014 2:07:29 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Maybe Obama can scare Putin with his pen and phone..lol

I just wonder how far Putin would have to go to get a serious response from our wimpy leader.


2 posted on 03/04/2014 2:21:47 AM PST by Bobalu (Happiness is a fast ISR)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"Audacity is 90 percent of the battle."
Karl Marx

"We dare not tempt them with weakness."
John Kennedy


3 posted on 03/04/2014 2:31:45 AM PST by Savage Beast (Hubris and denial overwhelm Western Civilization. Nemesis and tragedy always follow.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

These foreign policy morons clearly have forgotten Mao’s dictum that Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun, and that the Russians have lots of them and other big toys too that go BOOM!


4 posted on 03/04/2014 2:35:07 AM PST by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

These liberal intellectuals live in a cotton candy world where war is done by clever words. Obungu demagoguery and buzzwords fool the lo-info intellectuals and hypnotize the sheeple....

However Vlad Putin is immune and works in the world of military force when he wants to


5 posted on 03/04/2014 2:41:00 AM PST by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Timber Rattler; 2ndDivisionVet

2nd Div’s post about mobile artillery in Ukraine:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3129311/posts


6 posted on 03/04/2014 2:45:22 AM PST by JPX2011
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

That first sentence ignores Palin’s and Romney’s warnings of six and two years ago.
I am sure it wasn’t done on purpose.


7 posted on 03/04/2014 2:49:40 AM PST by Post5203 (For the first time in my life, I despise this country.)
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To: Bobalu

These butt suckers are coming out of the woodwork fantasizing about all sorts of things Obama could do, what Putin can’t do, why Obama doesn’t need to worry, why Obama’s acumen and intelligence will whup Putin, and on and on and on and on.

They are playing word games. Polls and ‘feelings’, worthless threats of “we’re not gonna go to Russia” or “we’ll boycott G8 or G20 or the International Tulip Fesitval - whatever”.

It is really childishly pathetic - just like what we have to call President here.


8 posted on 03/04/2014 2:51:01 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

9 posted on 03/04/2014 3:01:42 AM PST by McGruff (Every night has it's dawn.)
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To: McGruff

Not to break the subject but has anything serious happened yet up there? I served in Cambodia with a man that was from Winchester. I haven’t been able to talk to him lately. WE were door gunners on the same medevac.


10 posted on 03/04/2014 3:13:42 AM PST by progunner (no compromise)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What’s next? “Obama Tricks Putin Into Invading Ukraine.”


11 posted on 03/04/2014 4:06:34 AM PST by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3

Or Poland? Alaska? France? Detroit?


12 posted on 03/04/2014 4:13:08 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Remind me if Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Tojo or Mussolini gave a rat's rear-end about polls.

I think there are two sides to this coin. Is Putin's Russia dangerous? Absolutely.

But many here on FR make the mistake of interpreting Putin's actions as sign of strength (because it makes for a nice juxtapposition: Strong Putin, weak Obama). Yet I believe there is some truth to the TIME article. In many ways Russia is weak.

Putin was so very afraid of a simply trade agreement between the EU and Ukraine, so very afraid of western market economies that he is willing to kill and go to war over it.

If it wasn't blatantly obvious before, it should be now: Putinism is morally bankrupt. Who would want to ally oneself with such a pathetic system? Didn't someone say with regard to Ukraine: "I'd boycott Russian goods if I could think of a single thing they made besides the rest of the world depressed."?

I'm not saying that Russian military isn't to be feared. It is. But at the same time the ruble is going down the toilet. I'm just saying that one should probably see Russia as it really is: morally weak and technologically outdated.

P.S.: Even the Russian government prefers foreign cars over Ladas: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1977004-in-russia-earning-an-olympic-medal-at-sochi-means-a-mercedes-and-pile-of-cash
13 posted on 03/04/2014 4:14:54 AM PST by wolf78 (Inflation is a form of taxation, too. Cranky Libertarian - equal opportunity offender.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Wow...betcha Putin is really concerned about polling...

I know for a fact all the former dictators in Russia watched the polling every week to adhere to the peoples will.../S

It’s hard to believe these “journ’O’lists are so stupid...to believe their own pablum..


14 posted on 03/04/2014 4:15:37 AM PST by Popman ("Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: wolf78

Here's what $100 bought ten years ago for me.

15 posted on 03/04/2014 4:22:24 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Sarah Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: wolf78

Russia under Putin:weak; Obama under America: weaker.


16 posted on 03/04/2014 4:32:10 AM PST by gusopol3
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To: gusopol3

The Russian republic cannot exist without the Ukraine. If mother Russia allows the Ukraine to move into the European Union it will spell the end of the Russian republic. That is precisely what is at stake for Putin and all Russian nationalists. Putin’s actions are about the survival of Russia as a world power.


17 posted on 03/04/2014 4:54:48 AM PST by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

State-sponsored commie media Time trying to spin a victory for Obuma and Kerry.


18 posted on 03/04/2014 4:55:29 AM PST by sergeantdave
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

But...... possession is 0.9 of the law

Vlad has now once again secured the port and the dream of Peter the Great


19 posted on 03/04/2014 5:00:26 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: wolf78

I don’t have the sense that many believe Putin is strong, rather that he is taking advantage of a world with a weak America. Putin is motivated and decisive in the face of a Coward president.


20 posted on 03/04/2014 5:07:47 AM PST by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

So Putin responds to the establishment of a hostile revolutionary government on his border, in a country that hosts much of his nation’s navy, and now he’s Hitler?

Reckon he’d be perfectly happy with the status quo ante, i.e. the reestablishment of the lawful government of Ukraine and the early elections called by Yanukovych. That wasn’t good enough for the revolutionaries, since they know they couldn’t win a legal election.

If something like this happened on our border, I’d hope that the president—although probably not this president—would crush it posthaste. That’s why the Monroe Doctrine was formulated and applied, since from the Fathers on down, we’ve recognized the danger of letting an unfriendly regime get a foothold anywhere near the US.


21 posted on 03/04/2014 5:08:51 AM PST by Patriotism Populism Tradition (Except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
How old is this Shuster guy? Can't be more than 18 yrs old.

5.56mm

22 posted on 03/04/2014 5:10:30 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Time Magazine ... printing a lot of crap and lies, as usual.


23 posted on 03/04/2014 5:12:51 AM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

One theory that’s been advanced is that the deposed Ukrainian government was exactly like the Russian government. They were both based on criminal activity. The show of force by Putin is really a show for the Russian people. Putin and his regime had to do something even if it flirts with severe financial impacts on the Russian economy. He knew Zero would piss his pants.

He could not allow the Ukrainian people to set an example for the Russian people. I think there’s more going on than we know. Putin is up against a people that won’t piss their pants, nor throw a temper tantrum.

“300 Soldiers of the Ukrainian 62nd Fighter Regiment were told to return to their base by Kiev after being confined to their quarters by the Russians. This morning their commander marched he’s soldiers up to the Russian line, where they have cordoned off the Control Tower and the MIG 29 fighters stationed around the airbase.

Whether brave, fool-hardy or whatever the Ukrainian soldiers marched up to their airbase carrying the Ukrainian Flag together with the Banner of the former 62nd Soviet Fighter Regiment, singing the Ukrainian national anthem
and other patriotic songs.

The Russian soldiers fired a couple of warning shots over their heads, as the Ukrainian soldiers approached. The Ukrainian officer promptly stepped forward and tried to negotiate with the Russians explaining that they need to return to their base containing all the maintenance shops, etc.

Note - The Ukrainian 62nd Fighter squadron was formally the Soviet 62nd Fighter Squadron based in Crimea before the breakup of the Soviet Union.”

http://www.expatua.com/forum/index.php?topic=13285.135


24 posted on 03/04/2014 5:23:10 AM PST by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

In fencing, I believe it’s called a ‘feint’.


25 posted on 03/04/2014 5:23:38 AM PST by cincinnati65
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To: wolf78

I would just caution, that in that 19th Century mindset of Putin, the answer to his country’s malaise is war.


26 posted on 03/04/2014 5:28:45 AM PST by EBH ( The Day of the Patriot has arrived.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Maybe Putin would be concerned if women and minorities were hardest hit.


27 posted on 03/04/2014 6:11:31 AM PST by Organic Panic
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

While I’m not privy to the insider stuff that’s going on in the homeland I suspect Schuster is right by this not setting right with the average Russian. Plus by doing this Putin has confirmed what many leaders from the entities liberated from Russian domination felt. Their military are working up a bunch of “what if’s” and have their defences based on an assumption of a Russian threat.

What we should be doing besides working on getting energy supplies to those nations which are dependent on Russian supplies. Is aggravating the situation in areas where they have invaded such as Absetia and other regions in Georgia. Even providing safe escort to the remnants of Ukrainan naval units loyal to the government.

This guy can be brought down.


28 posted on 03/04/2014 6:23:57 AM PST by mosesdapoet (Serious contribution pause.Please continue onto meaningless venting no one reads.)
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To: meatloaf

I think his primary concern in Crimea...he could let Ukraine be independent, but not with the Crimea.


29 posted on 03/04/2014 6:28:47 AM PST by dfwgator
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