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4 Reasons Putin Is Already Losing in Ukraine
TIME ^ | 03/04/2014 | Simon Shuster

Posted on 03/04/2014 8:16:04 AM PST by SeekAndFind

Even a week ago, the idea of a Russian military intervention in Ukraine seemed far-fetched if not totally alarmist. The risks involved were just too enormous for President Vladimir Putin and for the country he has ruled for 14 years. But the arrival of Russian troops in Crimea over the weekend has shown that he is not averse to reckless adventures, even ones that offer little gain.

In the coming days and weeks, Putin will have to decide how far he is prepared to take this intervention and how much he is prepared to suffer for it. It is already clear, however, that he cannot emerge as the winner of this conflict, at least not when the damage is weighed against the gains. It will at best be a Pyrrhic victory, and at worst an utter catastrophe. Here’s why:

At home, this intervention looks to be one of the most unpopular decisions Putin has ever made. The Kremlin’s own pollster released a survey on Monday that showed 73% of Russians reject it. In phrasing its question posed in early February to 1,600 respondents across the country, the state-funded sociologists at WCIOM were clearly trying to get as much support for the intervention as possible: “Should Russia react to the overthrow of the legally elected authorities in Ukraine?” they asked. Only 15% said yes — hardly a national consensus.

That seems astounding in light of all the brainwashing Russians have faced on the issue of Ukraine. For weeks, the Kremlin’s effective monopoly on television news has been sounding the alarm over Ukraine. Its revolution, they claimed, is the result of an American alliance with Nazis intended to weaken Russia. And still, nearly three-quarters of the population oppose a Russian “reaction” of any kind, let alone a Russian military occupation

(Excerpt) Read more at world.time.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: putin; russia; ukraine; ukrainecrisis
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1 posted on 03/04/2014 8:16:05 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

TIME Magazine to the rescue (of Obama).


2 posted on 03/04/2014 8:17:24 AM PST by rightwingintelligentsia (Democrats: The perfect party for the helpless and stupid, and those who would rule over them.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Delusional.

He has nothing to lose by keeping Crimea, and nothing to gain by giving it up.

He’s keeping it.


3 posted on 03/04/2014 8:18:11 AM PST by marron
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To: SeekAndFind

Time. The propaganda arm of the FSB, since before it was the KGB, or even the NKVD...


4 posted on 03/04/2014 8:18:32 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZolXrjGIBJs

In a report on the Kremlin-funded Russia Today television station, Abby Martin said she “wanted to say something from my heart about the ongoing political crisis in Ukraine and Russia’s military occupation of Crimea”.


5 posted on 03/04/2014 8:19:12 AM PST by swamprebel (a Constitution once changed from Freedom, can never be restored.)
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To: SeekAndFind
That seems astounding in light of all the brainwashing Russians have faced on the issue of Ukraine

Ironic for Time to bring up brainwashing.

6 posted on 03/04/2014 8:21:08 AM PST by Cementjungle
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To: SeekAndFind

For weeks, the Kremlin’s effective monopoly on television news has been sounding the alarm over Ukraine.


Said without a trace of irony.


7 posted on 03/04/2014 8:21:27 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: marron
Agreed. Russia must have and will have Crimea. They have an overwhelming need for a warm water year round naval port.

Our job is to make acquiring Crimea so expensive that they will be discouraged from further expansion.

8 posted on 03/04/2014 8:21:30 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

There is no TIME magazine is there? Isn’t it only online now?


9 posted on 03/04/2014 8:21:43 AM PST by Obadiah (I Like Ted.)
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To: Obadiah

RE: There is no TIME magazine is there? Isn’t it only online now?

Sorry to inform you — THERE IS. Our office subscribes to it.


10 posted on 03/04/2014 8:23:51 AM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: marron

A warm water port is of great strategic importance to Russia.

If he were to give that up his own people would likely turn on him.


11 posted on 03/04/2014 8:23:52 AM PST by Buckeye McFrog
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To: SeekAndFind

I’ve been seeing a real coordinated media campaign to save the Gay Media Messiah’s image this morning, from articles last night by Obama sycophants Micheal Cohen and Donna Brazile, to a sudden surge of internet “postings” praising Obama’s “BRILLIANCE!” at handling the situation.

Even the bot-controlled fake twitter profiles are in on it.


12 posted on 03/04/2014 8:24:48 AM PST by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Obadiah
There is no TIME magazine is there? Isn’t it only online now?

it still exists... i see it at the check-out in the supermarket...

13 posted on 03/04/2014 8:26:31 AM PST by latina4dubya (when i have money i buy books... if i have anything left, i buy 6-inch heels and a bottle of wine...)
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To: SeekAndFind

Is Time so naive that it believes that the Kremlin will change its policies to suit an opinion poll?


14 posted on 03/04/2014 8:26:36 AM PST by kidd
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To: SeekAndFind

WHY???


15 posted on 03/04/2014 8:26:48 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: null and void

“Our job is to make acquiring Crimea so expensive that they will be discouraged from further expansion. “

Our only job is to stay out of this mess.


16 posted on 03/04/2014 8:27:17 AM PST by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: Obadiah

You’re confusing Time with Newsweak.


17 posted on 03/04/2014 8:27:55 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: SeekAndFind

the author

18 posted on 03/04/2014 8:28:49 AM PST by BookmanTheJanitor
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To: SeekAndFind

Not interested in American propaganda.


19 posted on 03/04/2014 8:30:14 AM PST by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: null and void

No legitimate excuses for this aggression: They already have a well developed port on Black Sea. The only reason for invasion is to keep Ukraine in it’s orbit of corruption. After the invasion is over, there is no doubt that Ukraine will join NATO. If there was a toss-up among public - all doubts removed now.


20 posted on 03/04/2014 8:30:34 AM PST by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: DonaldC

Yeah. Isolationism worked soooo well before the last two world wars.

Let’s do it again.

Maybe we can even get a good Youtube of John F-in’ Kerry getting off an airplane waving a piece of paper and declaring “Peace for our time”?


21 posted on 03/04/2014 8:31:05 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: marron
The only paragraph in the whole article which actually made sense:

And what about the upside for Putin? There doesn’t seem to be much of it, at least not compared with the damage he stands to inflict on Russia and himself. But he does look set to accomplish a few things. For one, he demonstrates to the world that his redlines, unlike those of the White House, cannot be crossed.

22 posted on 03/04/2014 8:31:14 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Samogon
I think you meant .... After the invasion is over, there is no doubt that the western half of Ukraine will join NATO.
23 posted on 03/04/2014 8:32:19 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: BookmanTheJanitor

Dammit! Now I have to replace the TWT in my gaydar!


24 posted on 03/04/2014 8:32:27 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: SeekAndFind
“Should Russia react to the overthrow of the legally elected authorities in Ukraine?”

How about asking the Russian citizenry:
"In view of the turmoil in Ukraine, should Russia secure the Crimea to continue to allow Russian ships access to the seas? - Tom

25 posted on 03/04/2014 8:33:13 AM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse U.S. citizens and Americans. They are not necessarily the same. -tom)
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten

Both halves. And then some: there are Ukrainian lands still occupied by Russia... Putin loses this war, which may lead to Russia’s disintegration.


26 posted on 03/04/2014 8:37:43 AM PST by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: Samogon

After the invasion is over, there is no doubt that Ukraine will join NATO. If there was a toss-up among public - all doubts removed now.


The current EU and NATO cheese eating leadership won’t want Ukraine now that Putin has shown he will roll tanks on his neighbors.


27 posted on 03/04/2014 8:37:49 AM PST by lodi90
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To: null and void

Who will loan us the money?


28 posted on 03/04/2014 8:39:45 AM PST by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: SeekAndFind

1. Because when you get what you want, that’s losing.
2. Obama defriended that loser Putin on facebook.
3. Palin said he would do this in 2008. If you do as she predicted you have lost. Except death panels.
4. Mooshell is going on an extravagant shopping junket to China. That proves Putin has lost somehow.

I can’t get a job writing for Time because my goofy four points stand up to scrutiny better than their goofy four points. And I’m not a socialist.


29 posted on 03/04/2014 8:40:24 AM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: null and void

So far there appears absolutely no will to punish Russia economically for Putin’s Crimean adventure. Putin correctly predicted that the western banksters won’t want to lose their cut of Russian thievery. The globalists are happy with a new USSR 2.0 as long as they can do business with it. I find that ironic considering all the Soros Derangement Syndrome going around.


30 posted on 03/04/2014 8:42:00 AM PST by lodi90
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To: Samogon
After the invasion is over, there is no doubt that Ukraine will join NATO.

Why would NATO accept them, now? It already turned them down, along with Georgia, once. This was about three months before Russia's invasion of Georgia; when membership was endorsed by Bush II. Both countries were left hanging by NATO. Both have been ravaged by the Russian bear, because of it.

31 posted on 03/04/2014 8:43:29 AM PST by Turbo Pig (...to close with and destroy the enemy...)
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To: null and void

The US public could not stomach a war against a panty waste country like Afghanistan. They will never take the costs of a war with a real country. Plus, we’re broke and can’t afford it and have a lack of manufacturing capacity for war material anyway. What concerns me more though is our gov has not fought a war to win in my life time, just police actions after police actions. With DCs culture of weakness, if we go thumping Russia or China, we could very well be flying their flag in a few years as they smell the weakness and are in it to win.


32 posted on 03/04/2014 8:45:41 AM PST by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: Samogon

I say Ukraine will be partitioned along ethnic and language lines. The way I see it that process is already well underway. We’ll see.


33 posted on 03/04/2014 8:46:30 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten

This war is actually turns out to be a great consolidating factor: there are huge lines of volunteers at Ukrainian Army registration offices in Eastern and Southern cities. Russians tried very hard to divide Ukraine, but helped uniting it - isn’t this ironic?


34 posted on 03/04/2014 8:53:19 AM PST by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: rightwingintelligentsia

If he had Obama advising him he’d rule the world!!! Right TIME?


35 posted on 03/04/2014 8:55:16 AM PST by albie
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To: Samogon

One swallow doesn’t make a spring. Let’s wait and see.


36 posted on 03/04/2014 8:55:39 AM PST by 2 Kool 2 Be 4-Gotten
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To: Samogon

“After the invasion is over, there is no doubt that Ukraine will join NATO. If there was a toss-up among public - all doubts removed now.”

Well, it remains to be seen just when the invasion will “be over”, and what the end-state will be. It’s possible that Russia will partition the Ukraine by taking the Crimea, go for the entire enchilada, or something in-between.

It’s hard to predict what might happen until we know where Putin is prepared to stop.


37 posted on 03/04/2014 8:55:48 AM PST by Tallguy
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To: SeekAndFind

It is incredibly cheap bird cage liner at $20 per year or so . . . which includes some “made in China” premium worth more than half of the $20.


38 posted on 03/04/2014 8:56:21 AM PST by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: Samogon
After the invasion is over, there is no doubt that Ukraine will join NATO. If there was a toss-up among public - all doubts removed now.

Post of the Day!

Yes, indeed: Regardless of the military outcome of the Russian "intervention" - win, draw, or lose - it will push the Ukraine farther into the arms of the West.

Regards,

39 posted on 03/04/2014 8:56:41 AM PST by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: Tallguy

You still are going to have Russian enclaves all over the country.

Keep an eye on Odessa.


40 posted on 03/04/2014 8:56:55 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Turbo Pig

Both countries were left hanging by NATO


NATO is dead as a serious defense organization. Putler will use the Crimea playbook to snap off some place like Narva, Estonia (on the Russian border and 93% Russian speaking) and NATO won’t lift a finger. The west is rudderless and being run by soulless globalists.

Time to pray for those in people eastern europe. The iron curtain is coming down on them hard again.


41 posted on 03/04/2014 9:00:43 AM PST by lodi90
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To: Tallguy

It is a war of nerves now, who pulls the trigger first, and Russians are losing it quickly. They might be able to keep Crimea, to international outrage, but that is it. The result will be opposite to their goal: NATO troops stationed closer to them and another unfriendly neighbor.


42 posted on 03/04/2014 9:02:10 AM PST by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: SeekAndFind

Let’s see....troops, planes, ships, helicopters...what were their four again?


43 posted on 03/04/2014 9:04:42 AM PST by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: SeekAndFind

“4 Reasons To Think Time Magazine Performs Journo-list-ic Fellatio On The Obama Administration”


44 posted on 03/04/2014 9:05:44 AM PST by pierrem15 (Claudius: "Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out.")
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To: listenhillary

Soros? He loves him a good war.


45 posted on 03/04/2014 9:06:16 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: lodi90
So far there appears absolutely no will to punish Russia economically for Putin’s Crimean adventure.

Economically, politically, nor militarily.

46 posted on 03/04/2014 9:09:03 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: marron

The Russians are in full Retreat!

47 posted on 03/04/2014 9:18:31 AM PST by VRWCarea51
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To: null and void
Not a fan of either man. Funny!


48 posted on 03/04/2014 9:23:44 AM PST by listenhillary (Courts, law enforcement, roads and national defense should be the extent of government)
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To: DonaldC

Yeah. I share your concerns. Perhaps if we survive the coming war, we’ll start fighting to win.


49 posted on 03/04/2014 9:26:00 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: SeekAndFind
If Time says Putin is losing, then Putin is winning.
50 posted on 03/04/2014 10:16:53 AM PST by Tax-chick (I've forgotten most of those languages, but I remember the joke.)
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