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John Baird compares Russia's actions in Ukraine to Nazi invasion of Czechoslovakia
CBC News ^ | Mar 03, 2014 3:01 PM ET | Leslie MacKinnon

Posted on 03/04/2014 11:52:34 AM PST by Dave346

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To: ex-snook
In neocon land Russia is "the big bear enemy", but in the American business and financial world, Russia is a business partner. "

Neocons used to have us quaking in our boots about Iran.


:) it should "ring a bell" that...

the only countries where the American foreign policy "experts" push for "regime change" are those that are outside of Western central banking.

Once a country "lets in" Western globalism/free trade/central banking, and allows a Western-educated leader to run the nation, and another one to run its new central bank, suddenly that nations disappears out of the news, it is no longer an issue. The foreign policy "experts" then move on, they are no longer concerned with "regime change" in that nation. Could be riots, famine, terrorists running rampant, pillaging the countryside, whatever. It's just "disturbances" at that point.

What I find amazing is that no one talks about Afghan opium production any more. It's like it doesn't exist in the news. But if you read the reports and data, opium continues to be grown there, with the US military right there. Somehow the Taliban had shut down production just before we got there. There's a rumor that it was just to cause shortages and drive up prices. Suddenly the US military shows up and the poppy fields started blooming at that point. Apparently all the kings horses and men just can not stop that opium production. Weird.

Who's talking about the "poor Libyans" ? The "poor Egyptians" ? Let alone the Tunisians, they were only in the news for like a week. Nothing being said, the banking problems are all taken care of, Western business is moving in setting up shop. The Libyan and Egyptian people apparently have "arrived at the leader they want". No more revolutions. THIS is what they protested to be awarded with. Sooooooo different than what it used to be for the "little people" /sarc.
51 posted on 03/05/2014 12:25:36 AM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: MeganC
Remember this argument of yours when Mexico uses it to justify retaking California, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Texas, and....wait for it...Georgia and Florida where recent evidence indicates that the Maya settled parts of Georgia and Florida long before the Spanish showed up.

Good point! Under Democrat leadership to open our borders, those jurisdictions may eventually themselves vote for succession and withdraw from the USA! Given that Democrats have disordered minds and cannot connect the dots, that is a likely outcome. Is this not happening already in Southern California?

As to the Ukraine, there seems to be no win-win solution. The EU is made up of mostly corrupt, socialist, and atheist countries. Who would want to join them? The Ukraine needs to settle its own internal affairs without any "outside" help.

You have to acknowledge that the Russians have a vested interest in the Crimean Peninsula port at Sevastopol. I know not the solution.

52 posted on 03/05/2014 3:38:54 AM PST by olezip (Time obliterates the fictions of opinion and confirms the decisions of nature. ~ Cicero)
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To: Dave346

It so sad when a Foreign Affairs Minister ignores history. Send him back to school.


53 posted on 03/05/2014 7:07:07 AM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Worth more readings, thanks,


54 posted on 03/05/2014 8:07:45 AM PST by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: Absolutely Nobama; All
Ok. That makes sense. Been watching the idiots on cable all week, and no one hammered it down.

It's frustrating as h### that these "pundits" are so clueless, but, that's why one should not depend on them too much. I'm no expert, but when the protests started making the news, I got curious, partially because of an old Ukranian friend of our family, back in my teen years. (He was a rather memorable character!) Anyway, I started doing some research, trying to keep an unbiased mind, and it was so facinating that it drew me in, and I spent many evenings looking further.

I'd recommend to anyone interested enough to post a comment that they at least get the basic historical background, if they don't already know it. It takes a few hours to study, but it's well worth it. I'll collect a few links and post them here, shortly.

55 posted on 03/05/2014 4:45:09 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Absolutely Nobama; All

BTW, reviewing comments after I posted my original reply to you, I would add that even many FReepers are still dwelling on issues virtually irrelevant to what actually counts, now. Aaggghhh....


56 posted on 03/05/2014 5:19:06 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Absolutely Nobama; All

Below are a few links (all sources likely have biases and errors, but overall one can get a good sense of things).

Ukraine basic info. & history:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/up.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine

For a taste of Ukraine’s politics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko

This article is rather long. (Again, there may be some bias there - one can check the “talk” page regarding this, but the point is not whether or not Tymoshenko is a “hero” — she may well be corrupt [I suspect virtually all major Ukranian pols are, to some degree]. The point is to get an idea of the nature of Ukrainian politics, and more background.) Most interestingly, at least in the past, Putin has said he found Tymoshenko “comfortable” to work with (despite her generally pro-West inclinations?)

Ukraine in WW2 (truly horrific, but a must, to understand this country.)

http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/

Ukraine’s nuclear disarmament & Security Assurances from the U.S., Russia, etc.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

None of the above actually addresses the issue of what happens if every country capable of joining the nuclear club discovers it is now on its own.


57 posted on 03/05/2014 5:27:50 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: olezip
As to the Ukraine, there seems to be no win-win solution. The EU is made up of mostly corrupt, socialist, and atheist countries. Who would want to join them? The Ukraine needs to settle its own internal affairs without any "outside" help.

I can agree with that. I am focused more on the bigger picture, but it is true that the Ukraine has fantastic potential. Unfortunately, presently there are only tough solutions vs. the really bad alternatives. I think that perhaps the country has been so battered (just go to the link I posted above about the WW2 history, and then consider the history after that) that they cannot conjur up the sort of Reaganesque confidence needed to go their own way, even as an act of leadership.* The rampant corruption is another factor: They MUST defeat that.

*I was just watching a vid of Yulia Tymoshenko on CNN Online, and when she is asked about the Ukraine's mobilization, she says (among other things) "we cannot fight Russia on our own" (paraphrasal), and pressed on this at the end ("will you fight?") she has this resigned look & body language and says "our men will die."

Wrong message, girl! Putin doesn't care, too many of the Euro's are weenies (not all, though), and those men of yours need hope / leadership. Americans will support an underdog, but only IF they show some spunk. I know she's been in prison and possibly mistreated there, but as a leader she has to evercome that, at least on camera. (That's another thing that would rally American public support.)

58 posted on 03/05/2014 6:27:00 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Paul R.
I'd recommend to anyone interested enough to post a comment that they at least get the basic historical background, if they don't already know it. It takes a few hours to study, but it's well worth it. I'll collect a few links and post them here, shortly.

As long as you're making suggestions on what to read it might be helpful to take a moment to read the official 1994 Budepest Memorandum in its entirety, the 2004 & 2010 Ukrainian Constitutions paying special attention to the clauses on elective process and impeachment, and then spend some time researching the status of forces agreement Russia has with Ukraine, and compare it to SOFAs the United States has entered into with many other countries around the world.

59 posted on 03/06/2014 7:09:58 PM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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