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How the Ukraine Crisis Ends [Henry Kissinger]
The Washington Post ^ | March 5, 2014 | Henry Kissinger

Posted on 03/05/2014 3:54:07 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

Public discussion on Ukraine is all about confrontation. But do we know where we are going? In my life, I have seen four wars begun with great enthusiasm and public support, all of which we did not know how to end and from three of which we withdrew unilaterally. The test of policy is how it ends, not how it begins. Far too often the Ukrainian issue is posed as a showdown: whether Ukraine joins the East or the West. But if Ukraine is to survive and thrive, it must not be either side’s outpost against the other — it should function as a bridge between them. Russia must accept that to try to force Ukraine into a satellite status, and thereby move Russia’s borders again, would doom Moscow to repeat its history of self-fulfilling cycles of reciprocal pressures with Europe and the United States. The West must understand that, to Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country. Russian history began in what was called Kievan-Rus. The Russian religion spread from there. Ukraine has been part of Russia for centuries, and their histories were intertwined before then. Some of the most important battles for Russian freedom, starting with the Battle of Poltava in 1709 , were fought on Ukrainian soil. The Black Sea Fleet — Russia’s means of projecting power in the Mediterranean — is based by long-term lease in Sevastopol, in Crimea. Even such famed dissidents as Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn and Joseph Brodsky insisted that Ukraine was an integral part of Russian history and, indeed, of Russia.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: bhorussia; kissinger; putin; russia; ukraine; ukrainecrisis
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This is almost all about NATO expanding East towards Russia. Bush promised Gorbachev it would never happen, it happened starting under the next President, Klintoon.

Russia will not allow all of Ukraine to be part of NATO. It will not allow Crimea to be a NATO base. Not now and not for the next 40 years.

1 posted on 03/05/2014 3:54:07 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

The country may be split West and East and the largely useless and poor West can join NATO, but we will have to regularly pump billions of dollars in to have this territory.

We are bankrupt, financially, and increasingly morally.

The last thing we need is a conflict in Europe over a non-vital U.S. interest. We have other more pressing geopolitical issues, including the Middle East and the Pacific.

The Neo-Cons are threatening our nation yet again with more bankruptcy and more dead and maimed young boys. They want Cold War 2. NO thanks!


2 posted on 03/05/2014 3:57:31 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

The old croc is right.

“Russian history began in what was called Kievan-Rus”

Will they go with monitored elections and a brokered solution?

Depends on how well our “President” and the EU idiots play it. Putin doesn’t want any interference or lectures.

Send Kissinger. He’s not dead yet. Le Duc Tho said he was the most implacable negotiator he’d ever encountered, and that’s saying a lot coming from an Asian Communist.

Hopefully he won’t give up too much ground like he did in ‘73 when he left half of Vietnam in VC hands.

But that was a bit different...and almost anyone is better then Lurch


3 posted on 03/05/2014 4:09:32 PM PST by Regulator
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

Neo-cons, eh?

Yeah. That’s the ticket.

I don’t understand how or why you have internalized and propagate the Russian position and world view.


4 posted on 03/05/2014 4:12:29 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

Dr K says: “... if Ukraine is to survive and thrive, it must not be either side’s outpost against the other — it should function as a bridge between them.”

This makes sense

But, “The West must understand that, to Russia, Ukraine can never be just a foreign country.”

This does not.


5 posted on 03/05/2014 4:16:08 PM PST by ifinnegan
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

Is this Putin propaganda? Seriously, Ukraine should be independent and not a satellite of either side of this.


6 posted on 03/05/2014 4:16:29 PM PST by virgil
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

-——Bridge——

There you have it. That will be the final result even if Crimea reverts to Russia

Russia and Ukraine can’t really be separated.


7 posted on 03/05/2014 4:19:13 PM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

Principled negotiations suggests Kissinger calmly.
Brzezinski’s op-ed was more liberal hysteria


8 posted on 03/05/2014 4:19:33 PM PST by griswold3 (Post-Christian America is living on borrowed moral heritage)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
How the Ukraine Crisis Ends...

Russia wins this one. Let the EU deal with. The Ukraine's disarmed themselves on promises from socialists and democrats. I'm not very interested in them or Europe right now when my own country is being dismantled wholesale by a kenyan faggot.

9 posted on 03/05/2014 4:29:51 PM PST by Ghost of SVR4 (So many are so hopelessly dependent on the government that they will fight to protect it.)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

I have this in my library:

Kissinger: the adventures of super-kraut

http://books.google.com/books/about/Kissinger.html?id=HydCAAAAIAAJ


10 posted on 03/05/2014 4:35:42 PM PST by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

“The Neo-Cons are threatening our nation yet again with more bankruptcy and more dead and maimed young boys. They want Cold War 2. NO thanks!”

I’ve been reading a lot of this all over the internet. What if Putin seizes all of the Ukraine? Russia has historical interests there. For that matter, what about Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania? There are Neo Nazis there and lots of Russian speakers. Poland, Hungary, Slovakia, Rumania, etc. legitimate Russian sphere of influence?

P.S. You know we stole Alaska whose abundant resources are all within Russia’s declared Arctic sphere of influence. At the same time, east Asia all belongs to China. Just ask them.


11 posted on 03/05/2014 4:39:26 PM PST by JimSEA
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

I am pretty sure this promise is just a Russian myth. Everyone in the USA, including George H. W. Bush, has denied it. Below is a page with a link to 17 a page document by Mark Kramer on it.

https://csis.org/publication/twq-myth-no-nato-enlargement-pledge-russia-spring-2009


12 posted on 03/05/2014 4:43:02 PM PST by Krosan
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

Never. For Russia, that is a red line.

I think a Finland type arrangement might be a workable solution. Finland is a member of the EU but has also pursued a pro-Russia policy out of necessity, both during the Cold War and afterwards.

Ukraine should pursue a similar policy. There is no reason why being in the EU should be incompatible with continued closeness to Russia.

The EU should amend its rules to allow Ukraine to also join the Eurasian Union at a later date if it wants. Europe must not exclude Russia’s interests and make it a zero sum competition about exclusive trading blocs membership.

Finland will never join NATO. The principled approach of Ukraine should be the same stance - we want to be in Europe but we will never side against Russia.

Within that framework, a political settlement is possible. I think it will have to wait until Ukraine gets a freely elected government that has the legitimacy to speak for the country as Russia will never deal with its present leadership.


13 posted on 03/05/2014 4:55:15 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: a fool in paradise

In before I thought he was dead!


14 posted on 03/05/2014 4:56:29 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: goldstategop

Want to end this? Two words.

President Cruz.


15 posted on 03/05/2014 5:22:14 PM PST by EQAndyBuzz (Insurgent Conservative)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
This is almost all about NATO expanding East towards Russia.

Yes. The people in the streets in Kiev were all shouting "NATO! NATO! NATO!",

Bush promised Gorbachev it would never happen,

Bush made no such promise. This is a lie which has been demolished many times. Stop repeating it, or prove to everyone on FR that you also are a liar.

it happened starting under the next President, Klintoon.

And that is why Ukraine is part of NATO today. [Facepalm.]

No President is bound by any promise made by his predecessors unless that promise is backed by a written treaty confirmed by the Senate.

Things may function differently in your native Russia, but they don't function that way here.

Russia will not allow all of Ukraine to be part of NATO. It will not allow Crimea to be a NATO base. Not now and not for the next 40 years.

And we should be supporting a country which believes it is entitled to dictate the foreign policy decisions of a sovereign neighbor because ...?

Stop spreading your Soviet lies and agitprop in a conservative forum.

16 posted on 03/05/2014 5:25:29 PM PST by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
When will Henry Kissinger end? And that harridan he's "married" to?
17 posted on 03/05/2014 5:50:18 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (If Barack Hussein Obama entertains a thought that he does not verbalize, is it still a lie?)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

End game— people of Criema will become a Pro-Russia semi independent state—There will be a vote, Then Criema will join Mother Russia. Period. Putin Wins.


18 posted on 03/05/2014 6:41:22 PM PST by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: bert

Yep. A bridge between the east and the west. A very rare event, if they can pull it off.


19 posted on 03/05/2014 7:19:58 PM PST by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

Henry Kissinger: The man who lost the Vietnam War.


20 posted on 03/05/2014 7:28:36 PM PST by american_ranger
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How about we trade the liberty loving Ukrainians with the Obama Marxists in the United States?


21 posted on 03/05/2014 7:32:43 PM PST by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

What do you mean by Harridan?


22 posted on 03/05/2014 8:13:43 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

I agree. Our neocons have become an enemy to America.

Ukraine is a big country. I think that it would be well suited to form a confederacy or republic. Fairly autonomous states with little federal power. None should rule over or oppress the others. Of course I think that would be a fine idea for us too.......


23 posted on 03/05/2014 8:22:12 PM PST by FreeInWV (Have you had enough change yet?)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity

....”Russia will not allow all of Ukraine to be part of NATO. It will not allow Crimea to be a NATO base. Not now and not for the next 40 years”....

Exactly!

It’s been aggressive landgrab for Western/NATO/EU’s soft power’ that’s been the destabilising factor across the world in the last 15 years......Clearly over the last few years the West is now carrying out regime change via proxy wars funding,organizing and using “people” to riot or claim they do so for freedom.

This situation would have never happened if the US/EU/Nato had stayed out and stop imposing their agenda for world domination under the Global Agenda....

Russia is making the right moves to watch its own back and giving the US a clear message to back off!


24 posted on 03/05/2014 8:33:43 PM PST by caww
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To: ifinnegan

Russia is a ‘central’ player in many dynamics on the World Stage, there is little it can be excluded from, and in fact Putin actually hosts many of the International gatherings, which by the way the International Leaders overwhelmingly agreed it be so.

Europe is dependent on Russia for oil and gas, and the volumes of revenue into European banks and investments off- shored from Russia..... meaning their interdependence is uneven, with Russia having more leverage than the Europeans...and they really don’t object to it being so.

The use of force is off the table because the US interests in Ukraine are not worth a war with Russia....and it can’t be underestimated that Russia cares far far more about Ukraine than the U.S./EU/NATO does.

Moscow also annually writes off $97.75 million of Kiev’s debt for the right to use Ukrainian waters and radio frequency resources, and for the environmental impact caused by the Black Sea Fleet’s operations.

The West DOES indeed need to understand Russia will never see Ukraine as just another country. It’s far more than that and always will be.

The best that can happen is for US/EU and Nato to let Russia and Ukraine determine their agreements and stay out of their affairs..... Ukraine needs to learn how to fairly run the country side by side with one another...and remain an Independant country from Nato And Eurasia both.

Ukraine’s biggest problem is they don’t have Representatives looking out for the country and it’s people as a whole.


25 posted on 03/05/2014 8:59:34 PM PST by caww
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To: virgil

...”Ukraine should be independent and not a satellite of either side of this”....

Well true but what does Ukraine got on it’s own? How can it survive without the money flowing from Russia and Europe? They don’t have anything to offer in the world markets...


26 posted on 03/05/2014 9:01:37 PM PST by caww
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To: virgil
Is this Putin propaganda?

Yes...Mr. Putin has hired Henry Kissinger to write essays on his behalf

/smh

27 posted on 03/05/2014 9:02:38 PM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: FredZarguna

....”we should be supporting a country which believes it is entitled to dictate the foreign policy decisions of a sovereign neighbor because”.....

Oh come on...the USA does it all the time....who do you think has been funding the take down of so many foreign Governments worldwide.....Libya, Egypt,Syria and others, and impossing our democratic ideas on those nations?

American interference and occupations of nations halfway around the world are considered noble.... But Russian interference in a part of a country right on its border is the supreme act of lawless, imperial aggression?....If we were in Putin’s shoes we’d be doing the same thing...and have to protect our interests.

Any who’ve been watching the Power players over the years know who they are and how they go about using their force and their tactics.

Like it or not Putin’s actions were entirely defensive against the “other players” messing with Ukraine...Basically the U.S. is objecting to attempts by Russia to play a smaller and even far less aggressive version of its own world game.


28 posted on 03/05/2014 9:14:46 PM PST by caww
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To: Ghost of SVR4

I’m not very interested in them or Europe right now when my own country is being dismantled wholesale by a kenyan faggot.


Other than that he’s an Egyptian faggot, I agree with you 100%.


29 posted on 03/05/2014 9:30:23 PM PST by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: caww
Oh yes, here we go. The moral equivalency of the USSR and the USA, rearing its ugly head every time the Soviets need a lame cover for their reprehensible adventurism.

I see you Russkies have also trotted out the old canard that the Ukrainians who oppose them are essentially Nazis; Maybe even real Nazis. The old lies never get tired for you Soviet propagandists, do they?

30 posted on 03/05/2014 9:50:51 PM PST by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: FredZarguna

Using Liberal tactics doesn’t work with me FRED....you can do better than lower to that.

Russia doesn’t need a cover for what they choose to do...especially when other nations do likewise to protect their interests.

You need to do your homework about who the various fractions are in Ukraine and what their agendas are...it would also help for you to look more carefully at Geo-politics and the push for Global Dominance.


31 posted on 03/05/2014 10:28:57 PM PST by caww
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To: Krosan

Oh, how I love good research!

Thanks x 10E6!


32 posted on 03/05/2014 10:58:56 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
Interesting.
The last sentence is quite a disclaimer.
33 posted on 03/05/2014 11:27:37 PM PST by right way right (America has embraced the suck of Freedumb.)
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To: caww
Ukraine’s biggest problem is they don’t have Representatives looking out for the country and it’s people as a whole.

Agreed - at least if they can get past this present crisis intact.

The West DOES indeed need to understand Russia will never see Ukraine as just another country. It’s far more than that and always will be.

I'm sure Mexico once thought that of Texas. (etc.)

Ukraine needs to learn how to fairly run the country side by side with one another...and remain an Independant country from Nato And Eurasia both.

Just how in the heck can the Ukraine do that if Russia sends in troops or turns off the gas anytime they want?

US interests in Ukraine are not worth a war with Russia

Correct, but irrelevant.

34 posted on 03/06/2014 12:39:12 AM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: caww
They don’t have anything to offer in the world markets...

You tell others to do their homework, and then you make a statement like that? Read the CIA factbook or Wikipedia articles on Ukraine, for heavens sake. Ukraine has PLENTY to offer both in the way of raw materials, agricultural products, and finished, even high tech goods. The problem is corruption and poor market mechanisms.

35 posted on 03/06/2014 1:06:16 AM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: Paul R.

I live in Estonia and I remember the same propaganda blasted by Russia at us starting from ~1990. “If they would ever get their freedom they’d be coming back in 6 months begging on their knees to be taken back to the USSR”.

Hasn’t happened so far (and is never going to happen), but I guess after 25 years they felt safe reusing the same propaganda believing everyone has forgotten about it.

Still they did. Here is someones translation from a Russian language article.


*** Claim: Nobody in Europe needs Ukraine, they have nothing to offer Europe; their industry will collapse and they’ll crawl back on their knees, hungry and in rags, begging to be readmitted.

Well, the same things were said about the Baltics in the end of 80s and the beginning of 90s.

Literally the same things: they have nothing apart from sprats and agricultural produce, but Europe’s got plenty of those even without them. They have no resources, why would they ever think they’d make it?

20 years have passed, and the Baltics are lost to Russia. And, as everyone probably noticed, nobody’s been asking to be allowed back.

They didn’t starve and they didn’t freeze.

It turned out you could indeed live without the Soviet industry – and live an European life at that. Yes, the Baltics aren’t Benelux, but the Baltics are, undeniably, Europe. So what if these places are still relatively poor, at least they’re living nicely.

We must keep in kind that the Baltics have, indeed, very limited natural resources – so their present state is all the more impressive.

Now back to Ukraine. I’d like to ask you: why do you think that the tiny and resource-poor Estonia could find their place in Europe, but the large and naturally wealthy Ukraine somehow won’t be able to?

Resources aren’t just oil and gas, as we’ve gotten used to thinking. Resources also mean the people, the land, the climate and much, much more. All you need is time, and willingness to do something.


36 posted on 03/06/2014 2:16:17 AM PST by Krosan
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To: Sawdring

Averill Harridan, old Russia hand.


37 posted on 03/06/2014 5:29:54 AM PST by skepsel
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To: skepsel

I Googled him and can’t come up with anything but a small blurb in a 1949 newspaper.


38 posted on 03/06/2014 5:44:10 AM PST by Sawdring
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To: Sawdring

“Harridan” is an unfriendly term meaning a gaunt old horse. They’re usually rich, too.


39 posted on 03/06/2014 8:48:37 AM PST by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: caww

I don’t seem to recall US troops in Egypt, Libya or Tunisia. Or that their people along with Iraqis and Afghanis ‘proposing’ to join the US as a result of US intervention.

Our intervention = support of a nation’s self-determination.

Russian intervention = support of Russia’s self-determination.

And how many Russians support their government’s incursion? Less than 20%? They know the purpose at hand.


40 posted on 03/06/2014 9:15:51 AM PST by Justa
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bump


41 posted on 03/06/2014 10:38:20 AM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: caww
Right.

I want you to please cite for me the last country the United States invaded because a dictator transplanted millions of Americans there 70 years ago with the express intention of undermining and destroying the country. When you can do that, we'll talk about your "moral equivalence."

As a matter of fact, I want you to cite for me that last country that asked the US to leave, and the US did not leave. [Hint: our staying is based on a treaty signed in 1903, which liberated that country from imperialism; and we actually would have left, except for -- surprise! surprise! a de facto Soviet invasion of that country.]

Your talking points are the usual Russkie agitprop, completely without foundation of any kind. You Putin boot lickers [and other body part lickers] think you're going to be unopposed on FR because of Putin's anti-homosexual policies.

Wrong.

He's a KGB thug and a murderer, and nothing about Russia has changed -- including the lies spread by her agents provocateur.

Boot licker.

42 posted on 03/06/2014 11:06:22 AM PST by FredZarguna (Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!)
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To: FredZarguna

There’s nobody on FR who is a Putin boot licker...and your comment deserves to be put in the dustbin of history along with your mindset to even imagine the International Community and Nation leaders are operating from policies “70 yrs. ago”.....that’s just insanity.

Russia isn’t the nation it was 70 yrs. ago.....it’s come far..but now think about where our own nation is...and we’ve been concerned about that for years now.

The leadership of this country is moving everything to the East..manufacturing, business, industry and workforce not to mention it’s politics....certainly it’s revenue is being spread to all and any country in re-building. You cannot deny that.

You can live in the past..I choose to see the World Stage as it is....from the facts which are there to assess today and this with an ‘understanding’ of History.

Further the US doesn’t invade directly...it props up, funds and organizes uprisings in the nations they want a change in Governance in.....and then installs those they believe they can manipulate. Sometimes working...most times not.


43 posted on 03/06/2014 2:46:34 PM PST by caww
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To: Paul R.

You can’t offer what you cannot control..... Ukraine has had so much corruption and leaders without any common sense to even know how to establish Ukraine on the World Stage. And few willing to assist them to do otherwise.

But of course now that Putin’s made his move the revenue will flow.

BTW the IMF will control Ukraine if they accept their offer...the stipulations are much like other nations the IMF gets involved with..you simply do what they say to gain the revenue offered.


44 posted on 03/06/2014 2:53:41 PM PST by caww
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To: ponygirl; skepsel; Sawdring
Let's get this straight. Averell HARRIMAN was the governor/diplomat.

A harridan is a bossy, belligerent old woman.

45 posted on 03/06/2014 3:14:04 PM PST by nickcarraway
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To: Krosan; caww; All
Hi, Krosan,

Your full reply to me is copied here for caww's benefit. I had to read twice to realize the question at the end of the article was not aimed at me: :-)

I live in Estonia and I remember the same propaganda blasted by Russia at us starting from ~1990. “If they would ever get their freedom they’d be coming back in 6 months begging on their knees to be taken back to the USSR”.

Hasn’t happened so far (and is never going to happen), but I guess after 25 years they felt safe reusing the same propaganda believing everyone has forgotten about it.

Just like the "Nazi" nonsense, eh?

Still they did. Here is someones translation from a Russian language article.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** Claim: Nobody in Europe needs Ukraine, they have nothing to offer Europe; their industry will collapse and they’ll crawl back on their knees, hungry and in rags, begging to be readmitted.

Well, the same things were said about the Baltics in the end of 80s and the beginning of 90s.

Literally the same things: they have nothing apart from sprats and agricultural produce, but Europe’s got plenty of those even without them. They have no resources, why would they ever think they’d make it?

20 years have passed, and the Baltics are lost to Russia. And, as everyone probably noticed, nobody’s been asking to be allowed back.

They didn’t starve and they didn’t freeze.

It turned out you could indeed live without the Soviet industry – and live an European life at that. Yes, the Baltics aren’t Benelux, but the Baltics are, undeniably, Europe. So what if these places are still relatively poor, at least they’re living nicely.

We must keep in kind that the Baltics have, indeed, very limited natural resources – so their present state is all the more impressive.

Now back to Ukraine. I’d like to ask you: why do you think that the tiny and resource-poor Estonia could find their place in Europe, but the large and naturally wealthy Ukraine somehow won’t be able to?

Resources aren’t just oil and gas, as we’ve gotten used to thinking. Resources also mean the people, the land, the climate and much, much more. All you need is time, and willingness to do something.

That is one of the most inspiring things I have read for some time. So I stayed up very late and "studied up" on Estonia. (Unlike caww, I don't know everything already. Often I prefer to ask questions.)

Anyway, wow... Outside of the lack of God in the culture, Estonia certainly seems to be getting a lot of things right. This is especially noteworthy considering all you went through, until 1990! I am VERY impressed!

To the point, though, while I was researching Ukraine, I recall thinking: This country could be an economic powerhouse, up there with Germany and France, if it got it's act together. Therein lies the problem, I suppose: It's a "people thing". I have mentioned rooting out the corruption and market reforms, but I also suspect Ukrainians need confidence, and the knowledge that hard work and creativity, not shady deals and connections, will lead to greater success. (Am I anywhere "close" to correct?) Maybe Ukraine really does need more "independence" from Russia and a Russian outlook and ways, too?

Another question (anyone can chime in): Is it possible that to some extent, Putin believes his own propaganda about "Nazis", and fears that a Ukraine run by such would become economically successful and a real regional power? After all, even with all the effort expended in non-productive (and often horrific) activities, Nazi Germany was a VERY "efficient" system in some ways.

Or, perhaps Putin simply fears a more independent Ukraine that might pursue a path similar to Estonia's?

46 posted on 03/06/2014 3:15:21 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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To: nickcarraway; E. Pluribus Unum

I read Averell Harriman’s Wiki page because it was a close spelling but E. Pluribus Unum might want to come back to the thread and clarify. I have read a lot of Kissinger so I thought I was learning something new.


47 posted on 03/06/2014 4:14:20 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: nickcarraway

I know, I was being facetious.


48 posted on 03/06/2014 4:15:45 PM PST by skepsel
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To: skepsel

Heh, took me long enough I guess.


49 posted on 03/06/2014 4:33:23 PM PST by Sawdring
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To: caww

I can’t disagree with you about the IMF, or what you say about the corruption in Ukraine, and if scouring that corruption out and adopting a free market economy is what you mean by “control”, I’d agree with that too. But as far as the Ukraine economy goes, IMO what it needs is LESS Soviet-style control (which is itself a huge invitation to corruption), zero Russian interference, and a large dose of free market capitalism.

Unless he has 100% control of it, Ukraine will never be rich or strong under Putin, but then, even if he did have 100% control, success would not happen either, because Russia’s model for success is heavily dependent on energy exports. Without those, Russia would be a failure.

Granted, without a booming energy sector, where would the U.S. be right now...


50 posted on 03/06/2014 4:51:04 PM PST by Paul R. (Leftists desire to control everything; In the end they invariably control nothing worth a damn.)
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