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Gay Marriage—a big stick to beat the church with
Creation.com ^ | Published: 6 March 2014 (GMT+10) | Gary Bates

Posted on 03/05/2014 10:36:38 PM PST by JSDude1

A line in the sand issue for Christians

Currently in the US and many other countries, so-called ‘gay marriage’ is being promoted via the media. In the secular, politically correct world we live in, the reporting of this issue is rarely balanced and dissenting views are treated as marginal. For example, at the time of writing, laws opposing homosexual behavior (or at the very least, not condoning it) in countries such as Russia and Uganda have made international headlines. One supposedly apolitical radio station here in the US called NPR (National Public Radio—it is funded by donations) described them as ‘draconian’ laws. Because legal acceptance of gay marriage is being celebrated as a victory for civil liberties, it seems as if the media is really out to shame any country, person or group who does not toe the politically correct line on this issue. So this will be an increasing challenge to churches and Christians.

Will religious views be exempt?

Such volatile actions by the gay lobby are actually causing Churches and individual Christians to retreat from engaging this issue for fear of being branded and out of step with the culture.

To some extent, common sense has prevailed on this issue in the past by allowing dissenting views under the banner of religious freedom, and individuals who have publicly spoken out against homosexual unions have generally been exempt from prosecution. Inside churches, Christians have been safe, but the tide is turning rapidly because the exemptions can be easily overturned.

(Excerpt) Read more at creation.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Extended News; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: church; evangelism; gaymarriage; homosexualagenda; traditionalmarriage

1 posted on 03/05/2014 10:36:38 PM PST by JSDude1
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To: JSDude1

Uh, you could’ve used phrase other than “a big stick”


2 posted on 03/05/2014 10:52:31 PM PST by Darteaus94025 (Can't have a Liberal without a Lie)
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To: JSDude1

What country does this guy live in? Does he really think NPR is “apolitical”? Apparently, he hasn’t heard any of their broadcasts.


3 posted on 03/05/2014 10:57:36 PM PST by miele man
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To: JSDude1

It’s an interesting field for speculation - what might have happened if the Cities on the Plain had been politically organized along modern lines.

Perhaps they would have published a newspaper with endless editorials about equal rights; perhaps they would have appointed and paid an Office of the Psychologist General which would have done its best to convince everyone that anything and everything was “normal.”

Possibly they would have agitated in the name of Democracy, doing their level best to conflate the words, “All men are created equal,” with, “All men are the same.”

The end result, of course, would have been just as written in history, since you may come to control significant segments of society, the media, and the legislature, but, try as you might, you can’t bullshit the Celestial Home.

The pisser is that we’re ALL going down with the ship.


4 posted on 03/05/2014 11:00:52 PM PST by Jack Hammer
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To: miele man

He was being sarcastic.


5 posted on 03/05/2014 11:06:03 PM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: JSDude1

Same sex marriage (homosexual relationships are not gay, they are sad, so call it sad pseudo-marriage if you must) is not really a problem so much as it is a symptom.

When it comes to innate sexual preference, only a very small percentage of people are truly cross wired (1 to 2 percent), so whatever crybaby noise homosexuals make about their pain at being born mildly defective really does not make much difference one way or the other. All of the noise about same sex marriage is just a symptom of the left’s ongoing assault on strong, independent families that produce moral civil citizens free from feral government dependency.

But the real damage has been done by the proliferation of easy, no-fault divorce, which has resulted in an ever increasing number of children being raised in broken homes (3 out of 4 in the case of Americans of Amish decent).


6 posted on 03/05/2014 11:08:43 PM PST by elengr (Benghazi betrayal: rescue denied - our guys DIED - treason's the reason obama s/b tried then fried!)
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To: JSDude1
This is what we get when we FAIL to OBEY God.
For it is written: Those who support homosexuals are against our Heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ.
These anti Christ people only bring destruction on us ALL.
I have NO sympathy for homosexuals!

Homosexuality is a "Mark" of disobedience.
Someone once asked The answer is in the definition of "REPROBATE". And the reason"why" is given in the Bible.

God has a cure for homosexuals.

"Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect
that God is just,
that his justice cannot sleep forever."


7 posted on 03/05/2014 11:09:51 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: JSDude1

Here’s an interesting take on how the government might force churches to accept homosexuality.

Many churches have accepted the IRS classification of being non-profit. To stay non-profit, they cannot discriminate according to the federal guidelines. At some point, the IRS may enforce this rule to force churches to allow unrepentant homosexuals to preach at the pulpit.

Any non-profit church that continues to discriminate may find their non-profit classification yanked and could be forced to pay up all the taxes they would owe for the entire time that they were a non-profit organization, which for denominations could be millions or even possibly billions.


8 posted on 03/05/2014 11:14:37 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: JSDude1
it seems as if the media is really out to shame any country, person or group who does not toe the politically correct line on this issue.

True. Except when it comes to muslims. Who are given a complete pass.

Some "victims" are more important than others.

9 posted on 03/05/2014 11:15:41 PM PST by Cubs Fan (Obama-worst president in American History)
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To: miele man

I don’t know if the article has been edited since you read it, but he calls NPR “supposedly apolitical,” which absolutely expresses doubt as to the truthfulness.


10 posted on 03/05/2014 11:23:39 PM PST by Burkean (.)
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To: Yosemitest

Great picture (sometimes a picture really is worth a thousand words). Succumbing to prurient desires is truly to fall into the pit. Man is inherently flawed and weak, so I don’t fault a man for his proclivities or imperfections, just his actions.

All children are born innocent and deserve to be raised by their natural parents who are bonded to each other in marriage. It is an act of despicable selfishness to knowingly create children to be raised in any other circumstance.


11 posted on 03/05/2014 11:26:12 PM PST by elengr (Benghazi betrayal: rescue denied - our guys DIED - treason's the reason obama s/b tried then fried!)
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To: Darteaus94025

I didn’t write the article.


12 posted on 03/05/2014 11:40:52 PM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: JSDude1

One can be 100% opposed to gay marriage for completely secular reasons. Homosexual sex uses the human body in ways it is most clearly not designed. Nature also has a vote, and no same-sex “union” can ever be viable. In fact, it’s impossible to even have a union in the natural sense of the word, because the parts don’t fit.

There is nothing wrong with holding homosexual relationships in less regard than heterosexual ones, because the latter involve using our bodies and minds (male and female minds are different of course) as designed. Not only that, but a good percentage of heterosexual unions (the word is actually appropriate here) are indeed viable, and society should be interested in seeing that the offspring of such unions are raised well. The best way to do that is to give cultural approval, via the law for example, so that the union is an enduring one, thereby creating a stable environment for the children with their biological parents.

Again, none of this is based on religion. It’s simple nature and reason. Anyone who disagrees and tries to claim homosexual sex is equivalent to heterosexual sex is, frankly, not thinking rationally. That doesn’t mean we can’t tolerate homosexuality, but it’s absolute lunacy to say its equal to normal, natural, male/female unions. Homosexuality is dysfunctional. Heterosexuality is normal.


13 posted on 03/05/2014 11:42:00 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Sodomy and abortion: the only constitutional "rights" cherished by Democrats.)
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To: Yosemitest

We cannot obey the Father that is the trick..

“Our righteous works are as filthy rags”.

Only through Faith in Christ are we given a new heart that includes those Christians who were unrepentant homosexuals, but now have a new heart and mind through Christ!


14 posted on 03/05/2014 11:44:04 PM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: Jack Hammer

“The pisser is that we’re ALL going down with the ship.”

Yep, because there’s a reality out there that could care less what we believe, and it’s brutal. It’s not swayed by majority votes, the media, or ivy hall musings. It just is, and the more we move away from natural law, the worse things will get.


15 posted on 03/05/2014 11:48:12 PM PST by CitizenUSA (Sodomy and abortion: the only constitutional "rights" cherished by Democrats.)
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To: Jonty30

One potential way around this is for churches to not do any “legal” weddings in the church. The the homosexual lobby will not have a suit in court.

Given that the state has usurped a religious sacrament this is, I think a logical position.

No wedding in the church of any kind.

No weddings by a minister of the church if there is a “legal” Wedding license.

The only location where these type services would be performed are public ones available to everyone (hotel Ballrooms and such)or private homes.

I am of the opinion that at this point no Christian or Jewish or even Muslim couple should be legally wed by the state. It is no longer illegal to live together in the eyes of the state without being “officially” married so why pay the cost of a marriage license. Have a ceremony that is valid in the eyes of God but not the state. You no longer have to show you are married to receive EIC/Wick/other government payments. So let State sponsored marriage die a slow agonizing death.

Notice I am advocating this not because I want to destroy marriage but because I want to save it. This would not even be an issue if the State had stayed out of the wedding business in the first place.

Let the State have it’s legal weddings.


16 posted on 03/06/2014 12:08:52 AM PST by Fai Mao (Genius at Large)
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To: JSDude1

I am really surprised at the amount of people who call themselves Christians who are pro gay marriage. A lot of them are vicious in their condemnation of Christians who do not think the same way calling them heartless and unforgiving and worse. They are harder to talk to than homosexuals themselves!


17 posted on 03/06/2014 12:09:01 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: melsec

I don’t know how someone can be a Christian and be “pro-gay marriage” they are either blind/foolish or not really saved because to do so (hold these anti-Biblical opinions) is to deny the saving power of Christ!


18 posted on 03/06/2014 12:16:00 AM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: Fai Mao

I refuse to give in, especially because I am not married yet. So I will not give into the homosexuals out of some trick like what you propose. They may force the state to accept their behavior (and I do not), but they cannot destroy true marriage-and we should not surrender!


19 posted on 03/06/2014 12:18:58 AM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: JSDude1
You have been deceived.
That is Satan's trick.

Read again And read again:

Can you remember reading about "a thorn in their side"?


Someone once said: They may be more to it than that.
Doing is important.
I believe the "fiery trial" has already started.
We haven't been very diligent " ... to keep and to do all that is written in the book of the law of Moses ... "
and there are consequences for our actions and in-actions.
We are living in the time of those consequences.
20 posted on 03/06/2014 12:21:05 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: elengr
Well said.
Thank you for your God-given insight.
21 posted on 03/06/2014 12:24:06 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: JSDude1

That’s why I used the term ‘call themselves’. If a person really doesn’t understand how utterly corrupt we all are without the grace of God then how can they hope to see how he can change us let alone them!


22 posted on 03/06/2014 12:28:35 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: JSDude1

That’s why I used the term ‘call themselves’. If a person really doesn’t understand how utterly corrupt we all are without the grace of God then how can they hope to see how he can change us let alone them!


23 posted on 03/06/2014 12:29:16 AM PST by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: JSDude1

“I refuse to give in, especially because I am not married yet. So I will not give into the homosexuals out of some trick like what you propose. They may force the state to accept their behavior (and I do not), but they cannot destroy true marriage-and we should not surrender!”

Except the state issued marriage license is only about 125 years old.

I am advocating that Christians return to a common law system. Where you are married because you say you are not because the State says you are.

Before the late 19th century it did not really exist. It isn’t a trick. It simply refusing to bow to the State’s ungodly wishes.


24 posted on 03/06/2014 12:34:33 AM PST by Fai Mao (Genius at Large)
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To: Jonty30
Any non-profit church that continues to discriminate may find their non-profit classification yanked and could be forced to pay up all the taxes they would owe for the entire time that they were a non-profit organization, which for denominations could be millions or even possibly billions.

BUt being a for profit vs. non-profit has never hinged on being/supporting/tolerating homosexuality, therefore, no law, ruling, nor regulation can penalize people for something which was not. (NO ex post facto law.) The only thing the IRS could do is make the churches lose their non-profit status in the future.

If the church is engaged in charitable endeavours, it could even show a loss.

25 posted on 03/06/2014 12:44:05 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Fai Mao
Except the state issued marriage license is only about 125 years old.

No it isn't, Thomas Jefferson had a marriage license, George Washington paid for his nephews, licenses go back to the 1300s, and Banns before that. Massachusetts required them since 1639. In Virginia-"By the 1670s marriage licenses could only be issued in the county in which the bride resided."

26 posted on 03/06/2014 12:58:56 AM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: Fai Mao
I am of the opinion that at this point no Christian or Jewish or even Muslim couple should be legally wed by the state.

Everyone can already do that, Christians, Muslims, cults, gays, atheists, and many do, the only people who get married legally are the ones that want to, or who can, for instance a Muslim cannot legally marry 4 women.

Most people want their marriage to be legal, for public recognition and for instance, a Navy SEAL who wants his family safe on base, and to receive widow benefits upon his death.

These kind of responses don't accomplish anything, nor change anything, nor preserve anything.

27 posted on 03/06/2014 1:05:50 AM PST by ansel12 (Ben Bradlee -- JFK told me that "he was all for people's solving their problems by abortion".)
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To: Yosemitest

No, I have not been deceived. Remember “by Grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves it is a gift of God that no man may boast”.

and Romans 4:5 “However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness”

We cannot obey the father apart from a changed heart, because to even try would be futile.


28 posted on 03/06/2014 1:20:03 AM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: JSDude1
You sound like so many others whom Satan has deceived.

Do you not believe Jesus in Matthew 7:16-26 or in Luke 6:42-49 ?
Do you thing Jesus as LORD of the old testament (John 1:1-15) was joking when he told Moses what our Heavenly Father tol.d him to speak in Numbers 33:50-56 >
Ponder 1 Peter 4:12-19 and concentrate on Joshua 23, for Joshua 23:11-16 is happening right now.

Read Malachi 4 again, ... less you perish soon.
29 posted on 03/06/2014 1:40:20 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: JSDude1
You sound like so many others whom Satan has deceived.

Do you not believe Jesus in Matthew 7:16-26 or in Luke 6:42-49 ?
Do you think Jesus as LORD of the old testament (John 1:1-15) was joking when he told Moses what our Heavenly Father tol.d him to speak in Numbers 33:50-56 ?
Ponder 1 Peter 4:12-19 and concentrate on Joshua 23, for Joshua 23:11-16 is happening right now.

Read Malachi 4 again, ... less you perish soon.
30 posted on 03/06/2014 1:41:25 AM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: All

I think we all should realize that homosexuals don’t just want tolerance,

they don’t just want acceptance,

they want approval.

And any act short of approval for homosexual marriage, lifestyle, etc. is considered to be “homophobic” and must be dealt with by the government. The media, traditionally progressive and liberal, is already on board with this line of thinking (has been since Lawrence v. Texas), and is working furiously to enforce the new order.

Churches must convert their beliefs to accommodate this new reality, or lose their tax exemptions and be driven underground.

That’s exactly what we are witnessing.


31 posted on 03/06/2014 2:08:53 AM PST by zipper ("The Second Amendment IS my carry permit!" -- Ted Nugent)
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To: JSDude1
Because legal acceptance of gay marriage is being celebrated as a victory for civil liberties, it seems as if the media is really out to shame any country, person or group who does not toe the politically correct line on this issue.

The "civil liberty" argument is based on the false premise that men and women are interchangeable. The civil liberty argument does not apply to same sex marriage because man and women are NOT interchangeable.

The consequences of homosexual activity have already significantly increased the cost of medical care to the population at-large. Costs of diagnosis and testing have increased. Because of the risk of cancer and other diseases, a simple sore throat could be instead be caused by a sexually transmitted disease. Hemorrhoids could be instead anal cancer, rectal gonorrhea, or rectal chlamydia. You will pay for those additional costs, not corrupt lawmakers and lawyers in black robes.

The encoding into law perversion will adversely impact the culture resulting in the spread of AIDs and other STDs, the destruction of the family, and increased risk to the physical and mental health of the population, with attendant increases in cost of health care.

All of this coming to your neighborhood thanks to the Democrats and low information voters.

32 posted on 03/06/2014 3:21:10 AM PST by olezip (Time obliterates the fictions of opinion and confirms the decisions of nature. ~ Cicero)
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To: olezip

Good points.


33 posted on 03/06/2014 3:25:58 AM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: zipper

The IRS can do nothing to the tax exempt status of a church in regard to homosexual discrimination because sexual orientation is not included as a protected class in federal civil rights laws.

However, some states have included sexual orientation as a protected class, therefore state prosecutors have state authority to pursue Christians in the ‘public domain’. However again, churches are not in the public domain.

But we can bet that a strategy is in works to penetrate the legal obstacles that restrain a state prosecutor from going after churches because in the final analysis this is where the conflict resides, between Sin and the Church, between Satan and Christ.


34 posted on 03/06/2014 4:00:16 AM PST by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Jack Hammer

The concept of “all men are created equal” has been replaced by “all orifices are created equal”.


35 posted on 03/06/2014 4:24:49 AM PST by reg45 (Barack 0bama: Implementing class warfare by having no class.)
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To: Jonty30

Another side to that would be (hopefully)...

Any non-profit status savings a church might hope to hang onto would be offset by the cessation of tithing/contributions by church members upon the first gay wedding.

I know we’ll stop writing monthly general fund checks and making end-of-year building campaign donations.


36 posted on 03/06/2014 4:36:07 AM PST by moovova
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To: JSDude1

NPR does in fact receive some federal funding. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting (which itself is federally funded) has funded public radio (NPR) since its inception through an act of Congress over forty years ago.

T


37 posted on 03/06/2014 4:56:22 AM PST by Jack023
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To: JSDude1

38 posted on 03/06/2014 5:28:40 AM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

But they can share in the “Rights of Inheritance.”


39 posted on 03/06/2014 5:57:36 AM PST by Patriot365
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To: JSDude1
Will religious views be exempt?

Will GOD's mind be changed??





 

Genesis 13:13
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
 

 
 
 
 
 
 


The Health Risks of gay sex.


40 posted on 03/06/2014 11:44:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Jonty30
Any non-profit church that continues to discriminate may find their non-profit classification yanked and could be forced to pay up all the taxes they would owe for the entire time that they were a non-profit organization, which for denominations could be millions or even possibly billions.

I doubt that RETROACTIVE fines could LEGALLY be imposed.

41 posted on 03/06/2014 11:46:03 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Darteaus94025

It’s more like a sledge hammer.


42 posted on 03/06/2014 11:59:12 AM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Elsie
I doubt that RETROACTIVE fines could LEGALLY be imposed.

With enough political power, the Gaystapo will do whatever it wants. And I'm not using hyperbole here.

43 posted on 03/06/2014 12:01:22 PM PST by fwdude ( You cannot compromise with that which you must defeat.)
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To: Jonty30
Many churches have accepted the IRS classification of being non-profit. To stay non-profit, they cannot discriminate according to the federal guidelines. At some point, the IRS may enforce this rule to force churches to allow unrepentant homosexuals to preach at the pulpit.

Certainly they will try this route but by this same standard, muslims and atheists should be allowed to be scout leaders/preachers as well. Just because they don't subscribe to the same values system that is being preached is by no means a reason to discriminate against them (by liberal activist judge standards).

44 posted on 03/08/2014 12:25:38 AM PST by a fool in paradise (The Texas judge's decision was to pave the way for same sex divorce for two Massachusetts women.)
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