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Russian Troops Unload In Crimea As Russian Minister Rules Out Dialogue
Toronto Star ^ | March 8, 2014

Posted on 03/08/2014 12:05:27 PM PST by Fennie

SEVASTOPOL, UKRAINE - Dozens of military trucks transporting heavily armed soldiers rumbled over Crimea's rutted roads Saturday as Russia reinforced its armed presence on the disputed peninsula in the Black Sea. Moscow's foreign minister ruled out any dialogue with Ukraine's new authorities, whom he dismissed as the puppets of extremists.

The Russians have denied their armed forces are active in Crimea, but an Associated Press reporter trailed one military convoy Saturday afternoon from 40 kilometres west of Feodosia to a military airfield at Gvardeiskoe north of Simferopol, over which a Russian flag flew.

Some of the army green vehicles had Russian license plates and numbers indicating that they were from the Moscow region. Some towed mobile kitchens and what appeared to be mobile medical equipment.

(Excerpt) Read more at thestar.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: crimea; crimeacrisis; obama; putin; russia; russiantroops; ukraine; ukrainecrisis; viktoryanukovich; yuliatymoshenko
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1 posted on 03/08/2014 12:05:27 PM PST by Fennie
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To: Fennie

Again, time for some Ukrainians to blow some of the pipeline as a message for Russia to leave or loose your oil money.


2 posted on 03/08/2014 12:07:20 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy

That would give Russia the excuse to annex the entire country. (Not saying I have a solution).


3 posted on 03/08/2014 12:09:58 PM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Fennie
No activity seen in Key Largo.

4 posted on 03/08/2014 12:10:55 PM PST by Genoa (Starve the beast.)
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To: Fennie

Well as long as they don’t disrupt the tee times at the Key Largo Grande, I’m sure it will be fine. /SARC

Darn that George Bush...


5 posted on 03/08/2014 12:13:25 PM PST by DanielRedfoot (Creepy Ass Cracker)
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To: Genoa

And conveniently for Moscow, they don’t exist.


6 posted on 03/08/2014 12:16:24 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: 1rudeboy

why can’t they be told leave or we remove your pipeline?

People sure are not getting help from Europe who get the Russian oil, so if they need to stand by then blow the pipeline in part then in whole if need be and get Europe, America involved by force if Russia keeps this up.

PLUS, if the pipeline gets blown, there goes Russia’s income to support their population and military.
Blowing the pipeline IMO if Russia doesn’t leave is happening in this modern age no matter what. Not that hard to do and it will make Russia regret it’s old ways IMO.


7 posted on 03/08/2014 12:18:39 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy
time for some Ukranians to blow up some of the pipeline

And who's going to provide them with oil and gas? Besides which Russia would then be justified to move in to protect its pipelines.

Everyone makes the "chess player" analogy for Putin. He seems to besides that be a guy with a flow chart. Whatever happens, he has a plan for what to do next.

8 posted on 03/08/2014 12:20:24 PM PST by grania
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To: grania

That pipeline is blood to Russia’s economy, so blow some of it up and economically offer them a chance to leave or blow the rest and destroy everything so Russia starves if need be. Do it before you have no country left.
Best thing to do is to blow it all up. Russia sucks at fixing or building things and the result would be due to this invasion anyway.
No one is stopping Russia, so blow up their little money maker and bleed them to death.
Leave them there and they will be a new spreading cancer to the area.


9 posted on 03/08/2014 12:27:09 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: grania

Much of his response to the evolving crisis has been improvised. If the Russians have an end game in mind, its not clear to them or to their foes how it will play out.


10 posted on 03/08/2014 12:27:36 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Fennie

Am still curious about you. Your English on your one post has improved.


11 posted on 03/08/2014 12:30:45 PM PST by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: 1rudeboy

I think this was a checkmate since Russia sent in the troops. The best thing to do is give up Crimea.


12 posted on 03/08/2014 12:31:17 PM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: demshateGod
Not at all, the best thing to do would be for a small group of anyone to blow up pipelines.
Russia needs to have a Ukrainian version of a don't mess with Texas moment.
13 posted on 03/08/2014 12:34:00 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy

You’d be creating catastrophe in Europe which is dependent on Russian gas. Its not easy to find a replacement.

Russia and Europe are each other’s largest trading partners, in particular Germany.

Putin has an acute sense of his limits. War would simply drive Europe into the arms of America. And rich countries don’t go to war because they have too much to lose.

Russia and Europe may be mad at each other but realistically, they have to resume doing business together. That’s the way it is in that part of the world.


14 posted on 03/08/2014 12:35:20 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: goldstategop
Really, Europe would have it bad?

If I were the Ukrainians I would say F them all. Do you see Europe who is so worried about having it bad send in their troops against Russia to protect the Ukrainians?
No, so good reddens to bad garbage and you will IMO see the blowing up of pipelines unless so called interested parties fight Russia off.

15 posted on 03/08/2014 12:38:52 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy

Russia would be hurt economically, but Ukraine would be devastated and Western Europe would have it as bad or worse than Russia. There needs to be a better solution than blowing up the pipelines.


16 posted on 03/08/2014 12:57:10 PM PST by Truth29
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To: Truth29
Like maybe Europe going there with their military to free the Ukraine?

unless that kind of thing happens there soon will be pipelines blowing.

If I were them, why would I give two f’s for Europe if they won't defend me?
Also, if you are going to invade me with your drunken military who are world rebound for being unable to repair anything, why not blow some stuff they want to billed them dry and make them suffer if they want to make you suffer?

So IMO, there she blows. Watch for it.

17 posted on 03/08/2014 1:03:25 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy

Excuse the typos, typing with an IPad and their keyboards just suck.


18 posted on 03/08/2014 1:05:03 PM PST by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: A CA Guy

The European military isn’t going to go into Ukraine to fight the Russians, and so far, note that the Russians aren’t killing anyone either. The Europeans might try and talk the Russians to death. Russia doesn’t recognize the legitimacy of the current interim Ukraine government and a sizable portion of the Ukranian population would side with the Russians. What you propose would give the rationale to move against “terrorists” and a lot of Ukranians would die while the West and the UN talked and talked.


19 posted on 03/08/2014 1:10:26 PM PST by Truth29
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To: A CA Guy

Temporary outages of pipelines will not “hurt” Russia enough to make them give up their key naval base.

The Russian national debt has been paid down to about 8% of GDP.

America’s is over 100% of GDP.

Ukraine does business with Russia, Europe and the US.

Billions of business with all three.

Those pushing for Ukraine to join the EU just went into a tizzy when the Ukrainian President did not want to go that far.

Joining the EU comes with a lot of requirements.

Would America want to join the EU ?


20 posted on 03/08/2014 1:15:10 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: A CA Guy
If I were the Ukrainians I would say F them all.

You really should do some research on the BILLIONS of trade that goes on between Ukraine and many other countries.

And BILLIONS in investments that have been made in Ukraine.

Ukraine can not economically separate itself from either side, Europe or Russia. And since all the US investment, not even from the US.
21 posted on 03/08/2014 1:24:59 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Fennie
heavily armed soldiers

Any other kind would be a waste of time.

22 posted on 03/08/2014 1:47:41 PM PST by xone
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To: A CA Guy

Who would blow up the pipeline? The military? Is it guatanteed that the military would follow such an order? And who would give the order? A protester on the streets?

I see the biggest problem is nobody is really in charge in Ukraine.


23 posted on 03/08/2014 1:49:34 PM PST by VerySadAmerican (".....Barrack, and the horse Mohammed rode in on.")
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To: VerySadAmerican
For most of history, this sort of thing was handled by large masses of men, often in nice uniforms, who moved across the land, bumped into each other, and settled down for serious fighting. Eventually, one of the groups would quit the field. Casualties could be large, and land would be gained or lost. Napoleon, WWII, that sort of thing.

But if you look at Iraq, Afghanistan, and the 21st century, it just seems crazy to do that. An army movies in? Well, your roads are going to be unsafe, because IEDs are easy. Your pipelines can be blown up by just about anyone. City streets will be completely unsafe. Snipers can make public gatherings a thing of the past, and suicide bombers can enter public buildings at any time.

Ukrainians might not be completely crazy (not so many Muslims there), but I'm not sure modern nation states still have the capability of taking and holding ground the way they used to. Armies may have less utility than one might think -- unless the local population wants the army to be there.

Certainly our army, which is the best in the world, and superbly equipped, has had a lot of trouble winning wars.

24 posted on 03/08/2014 2:07:28 PM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: PieterCasparzen

“Ukraine does business with Russia”

22% of its export goes to Russia
and
Ukraine imports 33% goods from Russia.

So if they want to shoot themselves in the foot, let them.

Besides, Ukraine owes Gasprom $2 billion for the delivered natural gas it hasn’t paid for and which was sold at half the market price. Gasprom announced that will turn off the taps, if the debt isn’t paid, and that in the future Ukraine will have to pay the gas at market price, no more reduction of 50%. Ukraine relies at the level of 60% of its energy needs on Russian oil and gas.

In other words, Putin is keeping Ukraine by the balls.


25 posted on 03/08/2014 2:21:13 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: A CA Guy

Russia has other pipelines to Europe that do not go through Ukraine. Pipeline through Belarus, Blue Stream through Turkey, Nord Stream and South Stream.

Ukraine would only hurt itself if it blows up pipelines.


26 posted on 03/08/2014 2:40:51 PM PST by LowTaxesEqualsProsperity
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To: A CA Guy; 1rudeboy; grania
Not pipeline but pipelineS...plural.


27 posted on 03/08/2014 2:58:07 PM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Fennie

“Ruled out dialogue”???

Whaaaa???

We called “Reset”; what happened to that???


28 posted on 03/08/2014 3:03:08 PM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great -- until it happens to YOU..)
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To: Migraine

They reset. Back to the cold war era.


29 posted on 03/08/2014 3:05:21 PM PST by HiTech RedNeck (Embrace the Lion of Judah and He will roar for you and teach you to roar too. See my page.)
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To: A CA Guy
why can’t they be told leave or we remove your pipeline

(quote from Doctor Zhivago, 1965): "They'd call it counter-revolution. That makes us counter-revolutionaries, too. They SHOOT counter-revolutionaries."

Therein lies the problem. The Russians would find out immediately who all were involved, and their families, and execute every last one of them.

30 posted on 03/08/2014 3:12:56 PM PST by Migraine (Diversity is great -- until it happens to YOU..)
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To: Migraine
We called a "Reset"; what happened to that???

Reset?

Sure, we reset to August 1968, Czechoslovakia, or maybe you like 1956 Budapest, Hungary? No problem.

31 posted on 03/08/2014 3:14:22 PM PST by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Migraine

“We called “Reset”; what happened to that???”

Hillary believed that the word on the button meant “reset”. In fact in Russian “peregruzka” means “overcharged”.

The word “reset” in Russian is “sbros”.
For instance “to reset the clock’ is said “sbrosit chasy”


32 posted on 03/08/2014 3:28:44 PM PST by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Fennie








if you want to keep your doctor
I want a piece of the action








33 posted on 03/08/2014 3:29:58 PM PST by devolve (- Tell Vladimir after my erection I have more FLEXIBILITY -- I need more SPACE - BHO Jr -)
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To: Fennie

So I guess the Crimea is self sufficient in food, because they aren’t getting any deliveries from the Ukraine.


34 posted on 03/08/2014 4:27:25 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: PieterCasparzen

So Russia is a good trading partner when they come in and steal your stuff, what evidence exists that Ukraine will be paid for their trade? They surely will not be paid for berthing rights in Crimea. I would make Russia pay in advance for pipeline usage.


35 posted on 03/08/2014 4:33:29 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: A CA Guy

I am very anxious to hear what Secretary Of Pants Suits Hillary has to say.


36 posted on 03/08/2014 4:45:32 PM PST by Cruz_West_Paul2016
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To: A CA Guy

“Again, time for some Ukrainians to blow some of the pipeline as a message for Russia to leave or loose your oil money.”

Are you bloody brain-dead stupid? I told you yesterday that blowing up the pipelines would shut down Europe and destroy Europe’s economy.

Is that what you want? You’re an idiot. I have family in Europe, and they’re not ready to sacrifice their children for your neo-con fantasies.


37 posted on 03/08/2014 5:17:00 PM PST by sergeantdave
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To: Mike Darancette

Other posts already mentioned, Russia is carrying Ukraine already, to the tune of billions.

Russia is simply making sure its naval base, the one it’s had since 1783, is secure.


38 posted on 03/08/2014 5:33:38 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: A CA Guy

The problem is that many people in Ukraine are on Russia’s side and most others would abhor the approach you advocate.

What you’re suggesting is not realistic and would be counter productive. If some elements(presumably the most extreme nationalists) were to to try this, it would play into Russia’s hand.


39 posted on 03/08/2014 5:34:46 PM PST by Monmouth78
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To: Marguerite

US and Europe also trade with and invest in Ukraine, to the tune of billions.

They (US and Europe) also trade with Russia; billions.

This whole thing is nothing more than the West wanting Ukraine to submit to joining the EU.

Do you know who Jack Heller is ? Do you know who Michael Bleyzer is ?

Ukraine has billions of trade going with US and Europe - for twenty years; Putin and/or Russia has not stopped that trade.

RUSSIA IS TAKING PART IN THAT TRADE.

Russia became a shareholder in the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development in 1992. Their capital subscription to the bank is about 1.2 billion euros.

The US is a shareholder, in for about 3 billion euros.

The EBRD is funded by borrowing; it sells debt on the world market.

Russia is no doubt interested in keeping its navy base - it has been their navy base since 1783, back when John Paul Jones was working with the Russian Navy.


40 posted on 03/08/2014 5:47:03 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Fennie

41 posted on 03/08/2014 5:49:00 PM PST by SkyPilot
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To: PieterCasparzen
Russia is simply making sure its naval base, the one it’s had since 1783, is secure.

Is there any evidence that the base was in any danger? This is all a staged event you know that, right? Hegemony was scheduled to be the final event in the Sochi Olympics.

42 posted on 03/08/2014 6:26:11 PM PST by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: A CA Guy

That would be basically a declaration of war on Russia. They should do that only if they are prepared to resist the Red Army (is it still called that?)


43 posted on 03/08/2014 6:35:20 PM PST by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: BurningOak

The Russians are already using land mines in certain areas of the Crimea and even north of the isthmus. That was reported by my brother-in-law who live in Alushta on the Crimean coast but get reports from his contacts elsewhere.


44 posted on 03/08/2014 6:48:58 PM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: Mike Darancette

Obviously, the President fled the country in the face of protests; he could not control the situation.

An “unscheduled” change in government, especially one that joined the EU - which comes with TONS of legal requirements - could conceivably mean a “new” government that would try to eject the Russians from the base.

They appear to be wanting to make sure that this does not happen.

If Cuba had a revolution, I’m sure the US would move to secure its base in Guantanamo.


45 posted on 03/08/2014 6:51:43 PM PST by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: A CA Guy

“why can’t they be told leave or we remove your pipeline?”

Because Russia believes in “blood for oil”. They’ll remove the opposing population if need be - done it before, will do it again, the third 40,000,000 dead is easy.


46 posted on 03/08/2014 6:51:45 PM PST by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesn't make bad people harmless.)
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To: Monterrosa-24

No surprise there, Russia is where Putin puts his army. His army is in Crimea and nobody is about to push them out of there.


47 posted on 03/08/2014 6:51:53 PM PST by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: A CA Guy

“Why can’t they be told leave or we remove your pipeline?”

Because Ukraine depends on Russia for most of its economy, a complete severing of relations will literally stop Ukraine’s economy. Also Putin is not above annexing the Eastern half of Ukraine or even all of it if pushed into a corner.


48 posted on 03/08/2014 6:54:27 PM PST by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: BurningOak

Putin’s Army is not professional compared to ours. Ukraine’s problem is they have no money and thus their Army is too small and ill-prepared.

But a Russian officer may blow Putin’s brains out within a year or two.


49 posted on 03/08/2014 7:24:06 PM PST by Monterrosa-24 ( ...even more American than a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Our military only has difficulty winning wars when they are restrained by rules of engagement designed to prevent winning
50 posted on 03/08/2014 7:28:20 PM PST by Clean_Sweep
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