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Fifty thousand Orthodox Jews take over TEN BLOCKS of New York in protest over Israeli army plan..
AP ^ | March 10, 2014 | Staff

Posted on 03/10/2014 5:51:07 AM PDT by C19fan

Ten city blocks of Manhattan became a river of black Sunday as 50,000 dark-clad ultra-Orthodox Jews took to the streets to protest Israel's proposal to force their young boys into its army. The gathering took up a stretch of Water Street, with demonstrators standing behind police barricades amid tight security as they prayed in solidarity with their brethren in Israel. 'These kids, a lot of them don't know how to hold a gun. They don't know what physical warfare is,' said Long Island rabbinical student Shmuel Gruis.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Israel; US: New York; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: astroturf; draft; effenjb; idf; israel; jews; newyork; newyorkcity; orthodox; usefulidiots; waronterror
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The dirty little secret of these Ultra-Orthodox enclaves is they have some of the highest rates of Welfare use of any demographic group.
1 posted on 03/10/2014 5:51:07 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Ping for your interest.


2 posted on 03/10/2014 5:55:03 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: C19fan

Sound like useful idiots to me. Obama voters. Am I missing something?


3 posted on 03/10/2014 5:56:35 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: C19fan
'These kids, a lot of them don't know how to hold a gun. They don't know what physical warfare is,' said Long Island rabbinical student Shmuel Gruis.

That's the whole point of Basic Training.

4 posted on 03/10/2014 5:57:46 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: C19fan

I never understood the deal where the Jewish men sit on their asses studying Torah while the women get to make the money and figure out how to feed the children.

These young boys going into the Army could be the making of them. I think the Netanyahu brothers are very appealing.


5 posted on 03/10/2014 5:57:58 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Mercat

Orthodox Jews typically vote conservative. They are certainly not “useful idiots” for BHO. They are protesting the drafty in Israel.


6 posted on 03/10/2014 5:58:30 AM PDT by Blennos
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To: C19fan

If they plan on living in NYC, why should they care what goes on in Israel?

If they wish to make Aliyah, then they should be willing to defend Eretz Israel from the rapacious wolves that surround her.

If these folks had been actual Israelites in the time of Joshua, I believe that G-d would have had very little patience with them.


7 posted on 03/10/2014 5:58:32 AM PDT by left that other site
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To: Mercat

You’re spot on.


8 posted on 03/10/2014 5:58:54 AM PDT by piroque ("In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act")
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To: C19fan
The dirty little secret of these Ultra-Orthodox enclaves is they have some of the highest rates of Welfare use of any demographic group.

Here? They do in Israel.

9 posted on 03/10/2014 6:00:45 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: yldstrk
I never understood the deal where the Jewish men sit on their asses studying Torah while the women get to make the money and figure out how to feed the children. These young boys going into the Army could be the making of them.

I wonder if it's the ultra-orthodox women who are the main supporters of that status quo? It keeps the men out from under foot, and makes them dependent "mama's boys".

One thing that military life does, is it shows a young man that he can live independently from Mom and Dad's control.

10 posted on 03/10/2014 6:05:14 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Mercat
You're missing a lot of detail.

These are the Satmar, one group of Hasidic Jews - as distinguished from the Lubavitchers, the Bobovers, the Skverers and other Hasidic groups.

They are arguably the largest group, and their official teaching is that the State of Israel should not exist.

While this does not stop them from taking enormous amounts of public assistance from the government, they object to serving in the armed forces of that same government.

There is a more extreme faction that is not part of the Satmar but has members who have been affiliated with it called the Neturei Karta - this group actively collaborates with Hamas to destroy the State of Israel.

It is a longstanding theological dispute, at the heart of which is the belief that only the Moshiach (Messiah) can restore Jewish government in Israel, that secular government is an abomination.

Among Hasidim, mileage varies on this theory.

11 posted on 03/10/2014 6:05:42 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: PapaBear3625

Here too.


12 posted on 03/10/2014 6:06:29 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: left that other site
If they plan on living in NYC, why should they care what goes on in Israel?

Many of them are Israeli citizens as well as US citizens. Many of the people in this crowd were born in Israel. Every single one of them has close family in Israel.

Many of them want to study at yeshivas in Israel, and where they study and whom they study under has a big impact on who and how well they are able to marry.

If they go to Israel to study at those yeshivas, the Israeli Defense Forces could just draft them in and put their education on hold.

Their entire lifestyle and career path, they feel, is being threatened.

13 posted on 03/10/2014 6:10:23 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

That would be lovely for them if Israel were not fighting a daily battle for its mere survival.


14 posted on 03/10/2014 6:13:08 AM PDT by left that other site
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To: PapaBear3625
These kids, a lot of them don't know how to hold a gun. They don't know what physical warfare is,' said Long Island rabbinical student Shmuel Gruis.
As was the case with their grandfathers in 1930s' Germany. Time to quit being a victim and learn how to hold a gun. Radical Islam will treat you no better today than the Nazis treated your relatives 70 years ago.
15 posted on 03/10/2014 6:16:54 AM PDT by artichokegrower
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To: yldstrk

I’ve read editorials which describe it as some Orthodox misunderstanding the mandates to study Torah to mean you can do it to the exclusion of working and supporting your family, as well as some using it as an excuse to avoid military service and live off the state.

Israel cannot afford to have a growing chunk of the male population sitting on its butts, refusing to defend the nation or support the tax base.


16 posted on 03/10/2014 6:23:48 AM PDT by tbw2
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To: C19fan

I watched a recent documentary about how those thousands live off the dole in Israel and do not contribute anything to the country that they reside in.


17 posted on 03/10/2014 6:23:52 AM PDT by KeyLargo
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To: PapaBear3625

Basic training...

” ‘We’re all united against military service for religious men in Israel because it doesn’t allow for religious learning,’ “

Learn it now, or learn it later at the hands of a Muslim “teacher” swinging a sword.


18 posted on 03/10/2014 6:34:08 AM PDT by moovova
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To: wideawake
These are the Satmar, one group of Hasidic Jews - as distinguished from the Lubavitchers, the Bobovers, the Skverers and other Hasidic groups. They are arguably the largest group, and their official teaching is that the State of Israel should not exist. While this does not stop them from taking enormous amounts of public assistance from the government, they object to serving in the armed forces of that same government.

OK, so the Israeli government could just tell them: have it your own way. While you can live here, you are responsible for your own security -- Israeli army elements will no longer protect your community, plus no more public assistance for you.

19 posted on 03/10/2014 6:37:09 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: C19fan

It’s easy to sit in NYC and demand that Israel turn it’s tiny population into sheep.


20 posted on 03/10/2014 6:37:45 AM PDT by ryan71 (The Partisans)
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To: left that other site
That would be lovely for them if Israel were not fighting a daily battle for its mere survival.

Again, they do not support the existence of Israel as a state.

The survival of the Israeli government is not a priority for them.

To their way of thinking, they survived a caliphate in Israel for 1200 years, on and off, and they can do it again.

21 posted on 03/10/2014 6:39:24 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: tbw2
I’ve read editorials which describe it as some Orthodox misunderstanding the mandates to study Torah to mean you can do it to the exclusion of working and supporting your family, as well as some using it as an excuse to avoid military service and live off the state.

Somehow, I don't think this could have been their lifestyle 200 years ago. Before the mid-20th Century, everybody's situation, of whatever religion, was "work or starve" (unless you had inherited a lot of assets).

22 posted on 03/10/2014 6:39:57 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PapaBear3625
Here's the problem: the Satmar formally frown on taking public assistance and on voting as being too participatory.

Of all the groups, they take proportionally the least public assistance.

So they are a large chunk of the population who believe in acting as if the government did not exist.

23 posted on 03/10/2014 6:50:27 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: PapaBear3625
Somehow, I don't think this could have been their lifestyle 200 years ago.

It was, but the pyramid has flattened.

There always was a scholar class supported by the rest, but over time the membership in that class seems to have expanded to embrace a larger and larger portion of the population.

24 posted on 03/10/2014 6:52:22 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: C19fan

Orthodox Jews go right past psalm 144: Blessed be the Lord my rock, who teacheth my hands to war, and My fingers to fight.

CC


25 posted on 03/10/2014 6:57:09 AM PDT by Celtic Conservative (tease not the dragon for thou art crunchy when roasted and taste good with ketchup)
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To: PapaBear3625

PapaBear, you love blaming everything on women.

I am female, just fyi and no, these poor Orthodox women right now are cleaning every room, every cabinet, every pocket to free them of all traces of leaven for Passover. They are exhausted. They would be happy if the teenage boys worked. They would be overjoyed if their husbands worked.


26 posted on 03/10/2014 7:06:54 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Mercat

Are they just protesting for the men in the mother land? I’m sure they will not be deported?


27 posted on 03/10/2014 7:08:29 AM PDT by angcat
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To: wideawake
Thanks widey.

This demonstrates what "ultra-Orthodox" Jews can do when they're really upset about something. So why aren't they doing this over "gay marriage" and similar issues? Once upon a time they actually did (back when homosexuality was universally condemned).

One reason for this quietism is of course that so-called "ultra-Orthodox" Jews are a very withdrawn group. They live in their own (quite literally Theocratic) world and are most concerned with getting along with whoever happens to be in power. In their world, these social issues don't yet exist (though the left wing of "Modern Orthodoxy" is pushing). The Israeli draft law impacts them directly.

Rabbi Yehuda Levin remarked in one of his videos that the religious Zionists in Israel (who come from Modern Orthodoxy) are more critical of the Israeli government than US "ultra-Orthodox" Jews of the US government.

28 posted on 03/10/2014 7:09:00 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: C19fan

If these are the types where me or my beloved family are not worth one of their fingernails, well then the hell with them let the IDF use them for practice.


29 posted on 03/10/2014 7:10:11 AM PDT by junta ("Peace is a racket", testimony from crime boss Barrack Hussein Obama.)
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To: moovova
We’re all united against military service for religious men in Israel because it doesn’t allow for religious learning

OK, so draft some ultra-orthodox rabbis, and have them conduct classes after duty hours. Term of service is three years, so as an accommodation to the Haredi, let them serve reduced hours (to permit study), but increase the term to 5 years.

Personally, I think an underlying reason why the ultra-orthodox leadership objects, is that the military enables soldiers to form friendships and relationships with people outside the group they had been brought up in, which would make it much easier for ultra-orthodox young men to leave the ultra-orthodox community.

30 posted on 03/10/2014 7:11:15 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: wideawake

Parasites.


31 posted on 03/10/2014 7:16:31 AM PDT by CodeToad (Keeping whites from talking about blacks is verbal segregation!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
One reason for this quietism is of course that so-called "ultra-Orthodox" Jews are a very withdrawn group. They live in their own (quite literally Theocratic) world and are most concerned with getting along with whoever happens to be in power. In their world, these social issues don't yet exist (though the left wing of "Modern Orthodoxy" is pushing). The Israeli draft law impacts them directly.

Which is why (as I posted in #30) I think the REAL underlying objection to having their young men and women go into the IDF, is that they would spend three years outside that little world, bunking with non-orthodox, seeing non-orthodox of the opposite sex, and making friends and contacts outside their community.

This would make it a lot easier for an ultra-orthodox young man to leave the community if he decided he didn't want to live there any more, and would have friends who could make it easy to get established in non-orthodox Israel.

32 posted on 03/10/2014 7:19:47 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: C19fan

Not only are a lot on welfare, but they protest Israeli’s
use of the draft, in a far away country, instead of in
Israeli. Brave. and they were behind a police barricade.


33 posted on 03/10/2014 7:22:10 AM PDT by tillacum
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To: yldstrk
these poor Orthodox women right now are cleaning every room, every cabinet

Good. And while on a break, they can make somebody a sandwich.

34 posted on 03/10/2014 7:37:03 AM PDT by humblegunner
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To: humblegunner

yes, while the men sit around studying Torah and Kaballah


35 posted on 03/10/2014 7:38:04 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: Mercat

Stupid Jews.


36 posted on 03/10/2014 7:47:50 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: wideawake

They might not support the state of Israel, but they seem happy to reap the benefits of studying there, working there, and enjoy the protection of the government. much like their Arab neighbors, I am afraid.

I understand what you are saying, but I do not sympathize. Sorry.


37 posted on 03/10/2014 7:50:37 AM PDT by left that other site
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To: left that other site
Oh, I'm not advocating sympathy.

I was just trying to point out how tangled up the whole situation is.

38 posted on 03/10/2014 7:58:00 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

I thought the other groups were also to varying degrees anti-Zionist. Though nothing is terribly clear.

The best way of looking at this is probably at surface value, that they oppose the draft because they are caught up in a sectarian ghetto mentality, and know that if their children see other situations (and “the big city”), they won’t want “to go back to the farm.”

But it’s a losing argument from two perspectives. The first is that having a military and keeping order are the two primary functions of government. If they don’t support the military, they have reneged on the social contract.

The other reason is that yes, while there will be attrition of some of their children, others will return, and likely with ideas that will revitalize their communities.


39 posted on 03/10/2014 8:01:30 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (WoT News: Rantburg.com)
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To: CodeToad

Do you support or oppose the US domestic policy of a volunteer army?


40 posted on 03/10/2014 8:02:13 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: C19fan
So is this why Charlie Rangel has been pushing for reinstating the draft?
41 posted on 03/10/2014 8:04:38 AM PDT by Just mythoughts (Jesus said Luke 17:32 Remember Lot's wife.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy; Zionist Conspirator
If they don’t support the military, they have reneged on the social contract.

The Satmar do not believe in a social contract, a concept which they would associate with the secularism of the Enlightenment.

They believe in a covenant between themselves and the Almighty, and they reject any entity or organization that they think interferes with their observance, including the government.

The other reason is that yes, while there will be attrition of some of their children, others will return, and likely with ideas that will revitalize their communities.

They do not believe that any ideas that come from sources outside of their community have any vitalizing effect on them.

If it comes down to it, they would rather pay jizyah again than have the Israeli government intrude upon their personal lives.

42 posted on 03/10/2014 8:07:19 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: tillacum
but they protest Israeli’s use of the draft, in a far away country, instead of in Israeli.

They are protesting in Israel too.

43 posted on 03/10/2014 8:12:01 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Oh it is EXTREMELY tangled.

Here is an Israeli Joke from about 35 years ago.

(QUESTION) Why is it illegal to make love on the sidewalk in Israel?

(ANSWER) Because, as soon as you start, 90 people will approach you and tell you that you are not doing it correctly.


44 posted on 03/10/2014 8:21:23 AM PDT by left that other site
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To: artichokegrower
Very few of the German Jews victimized by Hitler were ultra-orthodox. Many indeed had served under the Kaiser in WWI. But Hitler eliminated the private ownership of firearms for everyone in Germany well before Kristalnacht.

Most of the 6 million Jews slaughtered by the Nazis were from Eastern Europe, often poor, rural (shtetl) villagers who knew little of the outside world. Those who came from sizeable cities and towns often had no military experience, no different from the majority of non-Jews. For the most part, they were confined to ghetto-type living before the war, and relatively easy to round up.

Yet there was resistance of all kinds, usually too little, too late. See Warsaw ghetto uprising for example, or better yet read up on Maj. General Sidney Schachnow, the only American Army general who was also incarcerated as a child in a concentration camp. (He is a founder of today's Special Forces.)

It is puzzling to me as well how most American Jews do not support the Second Amendment, especially with Israel having its IDF dispell any notion that prayer alone will keep you safe.

45 posted on 03/10/2014 8:40:49 AM PDT by masadaman
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To: yldstrk
these poor Orthodox women right now are cleaning every room, every cabinet, every pocket to free them of all traces of leaven for Passover. They are exhausted. They would be happy if the teenage boys worked. They would be overjoyed if their husbands worked.

There's a goyim term for such women: suckers.

46 posted on 03/10/2014 8:42:41 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: masadaman
It is puzzling to me as well how most American Jews do not support the Second Amendment, especially with Israel having its IDF dispell any notion that prayer alone will keep you safe.

I'm thinking that it has become part of Jewish culture that a strong central government is their protector against any anti-Jewish local hostility.

The essence of the 2nd Amendment is to ensure that local people retain their ability to counter-act a too-powerful government.

47 posted on 03/10/2014 9:09:10 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: onedoug

ping


48 posted on 03/10/2014 9:21:44 AM PDT by windcliff
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To: windcliff

#36


49 posted on 03/10/2014 9:24:45 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: wideawake

I support a volunteer army, but if we were Israel surrounded by and attacked by enemies daily, I would put conditions on being a citizen to include defending the nation.

I know a guy who is Swiss, born and raised, but is Israeli as well. He was very happy to have served his 2 years even though he identifies as Swiss more than Israeli. Many of these people do not live in Israel but want the privileges of it, such as Israeli passports. What have they done to earn it?

I believe no nation should ever conscript and do not desire Israel or the US to do so, but if foreign living persons want the privilege of having Israeli passports they should be required to do something for them.


50 posted on 03/10/2014 9:30:31 AM PDT by CodeToad (Keeping whites from talking about blacks is verbal segregation!)
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