Skip to comments.Nato jets to monitor Ukraine border
Posted on 03/10/2014 11:10:50 AM PDT by McGruff
Nato is to deploy reconnaissance planes in Poland and Romania to monitor the Ukrainian crisis.
It gave the go-ahead for the flights on Monday, a Nato spokesman said.
"All Awacs [Airborne Warning and Control System] reconnaissance flights will take place solely over alliance territory," the official said.
It comes as Russia cements its control of Ukraine's Crimea ahead of Sunday's referendum to join Russia. Ukraine and the West say this is illegal.
In the latest move on Monday, armed men - said to be Russian troops and local militias - seized a military hospital in Crimea.
The attackers marched into the hospital in the regional capital Simferopol, threatening staff and some 30 patients.
Pro-Russian troops are also blockading Ukrainian troops across Crimea.
Moscow has officially denied that its troops are taking part in the blockades, describing the armed men with no insignia as Crimea's "self-defence" forces.
The government in Kiev - as well as the US and EU - accuse Russia of invading Ukraine, in violation of international law.
Nato said the surveillance flights would "enhance the alliance's situational awareness".
Last week, the organisation said it was reviewing all co-operation with Russia and stepping up its engagement with the government in Kiev.
Unrest in Ukraine erupted in November after former President Viktor Yanukovych's last-minute rejection of a landmark EU deal in favour of a bailout from Russia.
Mr Yanukovych was ousted last month, and a new government has been voted in by the Ukrainian parliament which Russia says was a "coup".
NATO observation planes.
Watch out, Vlad.
Next come the drones if you don’t watch it.
He’ll ship more nuclear material to Iran and more weapons to Syria. You see, as his Putinistas here tell it, Putin is a swell friend of Christianity.
No move required by Vlad for this meaningless gambit. It is in essence not a move.
They are pretending to act
Obama keeps sticking little appendages into Russia’s face....
but Putin just laughs of course.
These spy planes will have pretty good sidelines seats to watch Russia finish its takeover of Ukraine (for better or worse), that’s about it.
Which we will be watching anyway from our spy satellites right from on high, directly above the action.
The more military actions the US gets into, the more the establishment
of the GOP and Dems lose public support.
IMHO, the “cat is out of the bag”, as more and more people start to see through the politics and see the bare ugly face of using the US military in wars that are not related to national defense.
We are inviting blood bath with our pin-pricks.
All NATO is doing is monitoring Soviet (I mean Putinista) action. Putin’s bed wetting supporters on FReeRepublic will crack and cry here, but steady people should not let this minor measure bother them.
There are loyalty issues in the Ukrainian military, that are sure to complicate issues should they come to blows with Russia. Many units will defect to Russia, and many will not have the stomach to fight (Especially those from the East).
In Russia, military assets come to you.
You should go work for the Ukrainian government. Unless you already do.
that’s insane and provocative. we are not enemies of Russia and/or Ukraine. neither are we allies.
Fly into Russian air space and we could be at war. Stupid...just stupid...
This is not about troops and materiel ratio. Russia’ economy will crumble under the weight of war, occupation and having to feed the occupied territories population. For Russia it will be a war of aggression, for Ukraine -the war of liberation. Not everybody in Russia has the stomack for it. Us does not have to get involved militarily.
The tank number is interesting to me. Ukraine is very “heavy” on paper.
Of course, most of the Ukraine troops in the area will not fight.
This is a civil war. We would be wise to stay out of it.
None of that Francis Gary Powers stuff.
And you should work for the Putin government, unless you already do.
O-M-G! Those Nato guys are true idiots. I don't see HOW they will "monitor the Ukrainian crisis", especially the South and Eastern russophone Ukraine, by flying over Poland and Romania. They can't even read a geographical map!
They will only "monitor" the nazi groups, strongly implemented in Lwov region, near the Poland border. More cretinous Nato gesticulation: "I'll show you! I'll send 5 more planes and a division of wild geeze!" ROFLMAO.
“They are pretending to act”
Puffing and huffing hot air.
Your still thinking obsolete, this is the age of 4th generation warfare. Its why Russia lost in Afghanistan.
The key is the people - if they are willing to fight it will be too costly for Russia like it was in Afghanistan despite their military superiority.
“The worst thing we can do is move military assets close to the Ukraine border.”
Hey, don’t provoke him ! Beside it’s not his fault, he had difficult childhood. And he looks so sexy in his shirtless pictures !
It's not provocative if you just do it and would be considered routine.
I think what they're really saying is that it will be US AWACS while US aircraft are helping train the Poles and flying CAP further north.
In my opinion, we are doing this solely for Poland and NATO, not for Ukraine. Poland is worried and invoked the NATO treaty. We’re reminding Russia that Poland is “[NATO] alliance territory” (which it certainly is). The Ukrainians will need to take care of themselves, I don’t see us coming to their aid anytime soon.
“thats insane and provocative”
LOL ! Incredible stuff.
If we can stay the hell out of this long enough, Russia may well collapse the UN. And the EU as power blocs. WITHOUT killing half the continent. Which we would ALL benefit from.
Anyone ever consider that? Anyone ever consider that is why Barry and McCain are so hell bent on getting us involved?
This is more for show than blow...
First, I’m guessing the E-3s for this mission will be drawn from the NATO AWACS wing at Gilenkirchen, Germany—total of 18 aircraft. Two are normally deployed to Afghanistan, and they usually keep an aircraft in Norway or Sicily to reduce over-crowding on the ramp, and to give the crews a paid vacation. So, no more than 15 aircraft for the mission, and when you factor in maintenance, other deployments and similar factors, the number of jets is no more than a dozen. Enough for 24 hour ops over Poland, but there are some “limits” when it comes to the NATO E-3 force.
First, the alliance doesn’t want Vlad to shut off the gas pipelines or take any other drastic measures, so the AWACS orbit will be well back of the Polish border. Effective range of the E-3 radar is less than 300 miles—about half the distance from Krakow to Kiev. In other words, Russian air activity in eastern Ukraine and the Crimea will be outside the coverage of a NATO E-3 over Poland.
It’s also worth remembering that NATO AWACS is a composite force, with crews and support personnel from throughout the alliance. Most of them are unionized and they will only work so much. I was an aircrew on a USAF battle management platform during the Balkans operation in the 1990s. We were a one-of-a-kind squadron with only a handful of aircraft and crews, yet we maintained 1-2 orbits a day with less than half the resources of NATO AWACS. And we were overland Bosnia (with only limited data on the whereabouts of Serb SA-6 batterys), while the E-3s stayed over the Adriatic or Hungary.
One Saturday morning, we were on-station over Bosnia when we heard the “overnight” NATO AWACS extended on their orbit. They finally hit bingo fuel and had to return to Germany, with no replacement on the Hungary orbit. That left the British E-3 (Adriatic orbit) to run the show. I flew a couple of missions with those guys on my various rotations and the Brits were very, very good. Most had decades of ground-based radar experience and tours in NATO AWACS, so their controllers were excellent.
We assumed that the “missing” AWACS had some sort of maintenance problem that kept it on the ground, and when it finally arrived on station (about five hours late), nothing was said. We later found out the reason behind their delay; a lot of the NATO crew members from the “less reliable” members of the alliance (i.e., anyone who wasn’t American, British, German or Dutch) had been grumbling about the heavy workload so they staged a “wild cat strike” on the Saturday mission. Most of the mission crew simply didn’t show up, so they patched together a crew of Americans, Brits and Germans to fly the mission.
It’s that kind of mindset that guides most NATO AWACS operations. One of the guys I flew with was a career AWACS type who went to Gilenkirchen after years at Tinker. He reported in to an empty orderly room on a Thursday afternoon. Come back next Monday, said the admin NCO (a Belgian), “we’re busy.”
I’m sure the appearance of NATO AWACS has Putin absolutely terrified.
Great background info. Thanks.
He doesn't make a fool of America, he makes a fool of the RATs.
Elect a Constitutional conservative President, and a TEApublican Congress and see what happens around the world.
This is only a good first step. And not a guaranteed reality at that.
This is a bottom-up country, always has been. What the people decide to have happen is what will happen, despite whatever delusions of Godhood any current Oval Office jockey may be afflicted with. And the people may be starting to build momentum toward an Article V Convention of the Several States. This is appearing to be the only option available to the people to right the ship of state.
Pravda is suggesting loyalty issues, but they are not in widespread evidence even in the Crimea, which is majority Russian (as opposed to merely Russian-speaking). Ukrainian military units in the Crimea remain under central government control. They're not fighting probably under strict government orders because they'd be annihilated since they are (1) behind enemy lines, (2) outgunned and (3) outnumbered. They remain in the Crimea as symbols of Ukraine's continued claim to the territory. The majority ethnic Ukrainians in the east might lean one way or another vis-a-vis foreign relations, but just as Russian-speaking Israelis are ultimately loyal to Israel, even if they might favor Russia in the foreign policy realm, Russian-speaking Ukrainians should have few issues as regards their allegiance to the Ukrainian state. Note that Pravda's assertion that the entire Ukrainian Navy had defected to Russia was wrong.
Are you of Russian origin? If so, I understand the tribal reflexes. For anybody else who follows geopolitics closely, it's clear that the Russian seizure of the Crimea has the potential to become the second iteration of the German seizure of the Sudetenland. Like many of the old and large imperial powers (including China and Iran), Russian has its native tradition of "mission civilisatrice" - a world-conquering tradition to bring civilization to the benighted heathens, while drenching the Russian state/sovereign in martial glory. Man does not live by bread alone, and this was why Germany embarked on WWI and WWII at a time when Germany was the most productive, on a GDP per capita basis, major country in Europe.
- Obama has UN dreams - Samantha Power, Cass Sunbeamstein -
- leading/losing from behind
Does this provide the western part of Ukraine with a way to direct its interceptors towards incoming Russian bogeys on a timely basis? Assuming the Russians kick off an invasion of eastern Ukraine and start by knocking off Ukraine's ground-based radar installations with HARM-type munitions.
I wonder how the Ukrainians in US will feel/act if US goes back on their word.
OTOH, if US decides to back out of their agreement to protect Ukraine, USA should return/replace all the weapons Ukraine gave up.
No. barry and Mccain are bound by an agreement to protect Ukraine. it's that simple.
If it were that simple then none of this constitutional usurping would be going on here at home...since they are bound by respective Constitutional powers.
Of course they never seem to let THAT stop them so I don’t forsee a foreign treaty making a lot of difference, do you? Really?
Agreed. This is the European Union’s gig.
Clever way to take over a mass of land. Look like you’re going to take over 2, then give one back. Everyone breathes a sigh of relief and you get the area (Crimea) that you wanted.
Well, one of the first things that would have to happen is they would have to pledge and perform a huge firing/turnover and reduction in all bureaucracy.
A decertification of the unions would be nice .
Healthcare in Crimea as such:
If ill and sent to hospital, your family must bring linens, food, medicines for patient. Hospital provides only bed.
Many are writing it was Pro-Russian activists who forced their way into a military hospital in Crimea.
Journalists should be asking Brussels about the French flights to/from NATO bases in Turkey, over Crimea, & into/out of Ukraine.
Ukraine’s Defense Ministry said a group of about 20 pro-’Russian activists’ from the so-called ‘Crimea self-defense squads’ had broken into the military hospital in the region’s main administrative city, Simferopol, and thrown out its chief.
In a later statement, it said the hospital chief was back at work after negotiations but added the premises were being blockaded ‘by the activists’.
However a CNN team that traveled to the hospital found it very quiet, with no one around. A guard on duty said he had not heard or seen anything unusual and that there was no senior official to speak with as Monday was a public holiday.
Russia, meanwhile, accused far-right groups Monday of “conniving” with the new authorities in Ukraine.
In a statement, the Russian Foreign Ministry condemned “lawlessness” in eastern Ukraine and accused the West of being silent over violence and detentions taking place against Russian citizens,
“Im sure the appearance of NATO AWACS has Putin absolutely terrified.”
He has more important business to attend to, like welcoming the cosmonauts who landed in Kazakhstan after a stay of more than six months aboard the International Space Station.
Russians Oleg Kotov, Sergei Ryazansky and NASA astronaut Mike Hopkins touched down in their Soyuz capsule at 32:4 GMT outside Dzhezkazgan in Kazakhstan.
Would Obama, in retaliation for Crimea, forbid NASA to participate to ISS missions? That will show him, Putin, who’s the “boss”! I remind you that the US manned and unmanned missions to ISS rely exclusively on Russian rocketry.
The problem from the get go is Journalists and citizens alike cannot tell one group from the other....and there are many active in Ukraine...they just assume it's Putins Russian Military or The Ukranian Military when in fact it's often neither..
Above is Crimea’s Prime Minister’s Army taking their oath.
Another American, Richard Mastracchio, is now manning the ISS with the Russian Mikhail Tyurin and the Japanese Koichi Wakata.