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Nato jets to monitor Ukraine border
BBC ^ | 10 March 2014

Posted on 03/10/2014 11:10:50 AM PDT by McGruff

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Your move Vladimir.
1 posted on 03/10/2014 11:10:50 AM PDT by McGruff
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To: McGruff

NATO observation planes.

Watch out, Vlad.

Next come the drones if you don’t watch it.


2 posted on 03/10/2014 11:12:45 AM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: McGruff

He’ll ship more nuclear material to Iran and more weapons to Syria. You see, as his Putinistas here tell it, Putin is a swell friend of Christianity.


3 posted on 03/10/2014 11:14:26 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: McGruff

No move required by Vlad for this meaningless gambit. It is in essence not a move.

They are pretending to act


4 posted on 03/10/2014 11:16:05 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: McGruff
Yesterday I heard an analyst say yesterday we are 2 steps from WWIII. The worst thing we can do is move military assets close to the Ukraine border. We don't have 5% of what's needed to deter Putin militarily and his likely response is a build up on his side.
5 posted on 03/10/2014 11:18:55 AM PDT by AU72
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To: McGruff

Obama keeps sticking little appendages into Russia’s face....
but Putin just laughs of course.

These spy planes will have pretty good sidelines seats to watch Russia finish its takeover of Ukraine (for better or worse), that’s about it.

Which we will be watching anyway from our spy satellites right from on high, directly above the action.

BFHD.


6 posted on 03/10/2014 11:21:05 AM PDT by faithhopecharity (")
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To: AU72
Kind of scary. They wouldn't last long on their own.


7 posted on 03/10/2014 11:23:57 AM PDT by McGruff (Republicans need to show Obama some RSPECT.)
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To: AU72

The more military actions the US gets into, the more the establishment
of the GOP and Dems lose public support.

IMHO, the “cat is out of the bag”, as more and more people start to see through the politics and see the bare ugly face of using the US military in wars that are not related to national defense.


8 posted on 03/10/2014 11:25:53 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: McGruff
The correlation of forces is why the Soviet Union backed in Cuba in 1962, Kruschev hoped for a fait-accompli but got caught.

We are inviting blood bath with our pin-pricks.

9 posted on 03/10/2014 11:27:08 AM PDT by AU72
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To: McGruff

All NATO is doing is monitoring Soviet (I mean Putinista) action. Putin’s bed wetting supporters on FReeRepublic will crack and cry here, but steady people should not let this minor measure bother them.


10 posted on 03/10/2014 11:35:59 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: McGruff

There are loyalty issues in the Ukrainian military, that are sure to complicate issues should they come to blows with Russia. Many units will defect to Russia, and many will not have the stomach to fight (Especially those from the East).


11 posted on 03/10/2014 11:37:52 AM PDT by Thunder90 (All posts soley represent my own opinion.)
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To: AU72
The worst thing we can do is move military assets close to the Ukraine border.

In Russia, military assets come to you.

12 posted on 03/10/2014 11:38:13 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: elhombrelibre
All NATO is doing is monitoring Soviet (I mean Putinista) action. Putin’s bed wetting supporters on FReeRepublic will crack and cry here, but steady people should not let this minor measure bother them.

You should go work for the Ukrainian government. Unless you already do.

13 posted on 03/10/2014 11:41:50 AM PDT by McGruff (Republicans need to show Obama some RSPECT.)
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To: McGruff

that’s insane and provocative. we are not enemies of Russia and/or Ukraine. neither are we allies.


14 posted on 03/10/2014 11:45:47 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: McGruff

Fly into Russian air space and we could be at war. Stupid...just stupid...


15 posted on 03/10/2014 11:47:04 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: McGruff

This is not about troops and materiel ratio. Russia’ economy will crumble under the weight of war, occupation and having to feed the occupied territories population. For Russia it will be a war of aggression, for Ukraine -the war of liberation. Not everybody in Russia has the stomack for it. Us does not have to get involved militarily.


16 posted on 03/10/2014 11:48:50 AM PDT by Mi-kha-el ((There is no Pravda in Izvestiya and no Izvestiya in Pravda.))
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To: Sacajaweau
I think I'm turning into an isolationist. If Ukraine wants to be part of the European Union let them send their sons and daughters to Ukraine's defense. Bring our troops home.
17 posted on 03/10/2014 11:51:57 AM PDT by McGruff (Republicans need to show Obama some RSPECT.)
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To: McGruff

The tank number is interesting to me. Ukraine is very “heavy” on paper.

Of course, most of the Ukraine troops in the area will not fight.

This is a civil war. We would be wise to stay out of it.


18 posted on 03/10/2014 12:09:10 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: McGruff
"All Awacs [Airborne Warning and Control System] reconnaissance flights will take place solely over alliance territory,"

None of that Francis Gary Powers stuff.

19 posted on 03/10/2014 12:11:04 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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To: 1rudeboy

LOL!


20 posted on 03/10/2014 12:20:13 PM PDT by Toddsterpatriot (Science is hard. Harder if you're stupid.)
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To: McGruff

And you should work for the Putin government, unless you already do.


21 posted on 03/10/2014 12:23:30 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: McGruff
"Nato is to deploy reconnaissance planes in Poland and Romania to monitor the Ukrainian crisis."

O-M-G! Those Nato guys are true idiots. I don't see HOW they will "monitor the Ukrainian crisis", especially the South and Eastern russophone Ukraine, by flying over Poland and Romania. They can't even read a geographical map!

They will only "monitor" the nazi groups, strongly implemented in Lwov region, near the Poland border. More cretinous Nato gesticulation: "I'll show you! I'll send 5 more planes and a division of wild geeze!" ROFLMAO.

22 posted on 03/10/2014 12:57:33 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: bert

“They are pretending to act”

Puffing and huffing hot air.


23 posted on 03/10/2014 12:59:49 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: McGruff

Your still thinking obsolete, this is the age of 4th generation warfare. Its why Russia lost in Afghanistan.

The key is the people - if they are willing to fight it will be too costly for Russia like it was in Afghanistan despite their military superiority.


24 posted on 03/10/2014 1:21:57 PM PDT by Mechanicos (When did we amend the Constitution for a 2nd Federal Prohibition?)
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To: AU72

“The worst thing we can do is move military assets close to the Ukraine border.”

Hey, don’t provoke him ! Beside it’s not his fault, he had difficult childhood. And he looks so sexy in his shirtless pictures !


25 posted on 03/10/2014 1:26:53 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: McGruff
One has to wonder why the hell they're advertising this.

It's not provocative if you just do it and would be considered routine.

I think what they're really saying is that it will be US AWACS while US aircraft are helping train the Poles and flying CAP further north.

26 posted on 03/10/2014 1:30:34 PM PDT by Mariner (uely)
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To: Mariner

In my opinion, we are doing this solely for Poland and NATO, not for Ukraine. Poland is worried and invoked the NATO treaty. We’re reminding Russia that Poland is “[NATO] alliance territory” (which it certainly is). The Ukrainians will need to take care of themselves, I don’t see us coming to their aid anytime soon.


27 posted on 03/10/2014 1:45:31 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
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To: Sacajaweau

“that’s insane and provocative”

LOL ! Incredible stuff.


28 posted on 03/10/2014 1:59:26 PM PDT by Grzegorz 246
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To: McGruff

If we can stay the hell out of this long enough, Russia may well collapse the UN. And the EU as power blocs. WITHOUT killing half the continent. Which we would ALL benefit from.

Anyone ever consider that? Anyone ever consider that is why Barry and McCain are so hell bent on getting us involved?


29 posted on 03/10/2014 2:00:28 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: MUDDOG

This is more for show than blow...

First, I’m guessing the E-3s for this mission will be drawn from the NATO AWACS wing at Gilenkirchen, Germany—total of 18 aircraft. Two are normally deployed to Afghanistan, and they usually keep an aircraft in Norway or Sicily to reduce over-crowding on the ramp, and to give the crews a paid vacation. So, no more than 15 aircraft for the mission, and when you factor in maintenance, other deployments and similar factors, the number of jets is no more than a dozen. Enough for 24 hour ops over Poland, but there are some “limits” when it comes to the NATO E-3 force.

First, the alliance doesn’t want Vlad to shut off the gas pipelines or take any other drastic measures, so the AWACS orbit will be well back of the Polish border. Effective range of the E-3 radar is less than 300 miles—about half the distance from Krakow to Kiev. In other words, Russian air activity in eastern Ukraine and the Crimea will be outside the coverage of a NATO E-3 over Poland.

It’s also worth remembering that NATO AWACS is a composite force, with crews and support personnel from throughout the alliance. Most of them are unionized and they will only work so much. I was an aircrew on a USAF battle management platform during the Balkans operation in the 1990s. We were a one-of-a-kind squadron with only a handful of aircraft and crews, yet we maintained 1-2 orbits a day with less than half the resources of NATO AWACS. And we were overland Bosnia (with only limited data on the whereabouts of Serb SA-6 batterys), while the E-3s stayed over the Adriatic or Hungary.

One Saturday morning, we were on-station over Bosnia when we heard the “overnight” NATO AWACS extended on their orbit. They finally hit bingo fuel and had to return to Germany, with no replacement on the Hungary orbit. That left the British E-3 (Adriatic orbit) to run the show. I flew a couple of missions with those guys on my various rotations and the Brits were very, very good. Most had decades of ground-based radar experience and tours in NATO AWACS, so their controllers were excellent.

We assumed that the “missing” AWACS had some sort of maintenance problem that kept it on the ground, and when it finally arrived on station (about five hours late), nothing was said. We later found out the reason behind their delay; a lot of the NATO crew members from the “less reliable” members of the alliance (i.e., anyone who wasn’t American, British, German or Dutch) had been grumbling about the heavy workload so they staged a “wild cat strike” on the Saturday mission. Most of the mission crew simply didn’t show up, so they patched together a crew of Americans, Brits and Germans to fly the mission.

It’s that kind of mindset that guides most NATO AWACS operations. One of the guys I flew with was a career AWACS type who went to Gilenkirchen after years at Tinker. He reported in to an empty orderly room on a Thursday afternoon. Come back next Monday, said the admin NCO (a Belgian), “we’re busy.”

I’m sure the appearance of NATO AWACS has Putin absolutely terrified.


30 posted on 03/10/2014 2:08:44 PM PDT by ExNewsExSpook
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To: ExNewsExSpook

Great background info. Thanks.


31 posted on 03/10/2014 2:34:24 PM PDT by MUDDOG
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Comment #32 Removed by Moderator

To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
Send Lurch to someplace to make a continuing fool of himself and America?

He doesn't make a fool of America, he makes a fool of the RATs.

Elect a Constitutional conservative President, and a TEApublican Congress and see what happens around the world.

33 posted on 03/10/2014 3:29:24 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: ROCKLOBSTER
Elect a Constitutional conservative President, and a TEApublican Congress and see what happens around the world.

This is only a good first step. And not a guaranteed reality at that.

This is a bottom-up country, always has been. What the people decide to have happen is what will happen, despite whatever delusions of Godhood any current Oval Office jockey may be afflicted with. And the people may be starting to build momentum toward an Article V Convention of the Several States. This is appearing to be the only option available to the people to right the ship of state.

34 posted on 03/10/2014 5:45:58 PM PDT by Tonytitan
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To: Thunder90
There are loyalty issues in the Ukrainian military, that are sure to complicate issues should they come to blows with Russia. Many units will defect to Russia, and many will not have the stomach to fight (Especially those from the East).

Pravda is suggesting loyalty issues, but they are not in widespread evidence even in the Crimea, which is majority Russian (as opposed to merely Russian-speaking). Ukrainian military units in the Crimea remain under central government control. They're not fighting probably under strict government orders because they'd be annihilated since they are (1) behind enemy lines, (2) outgunned and (3) outnumbered. They remain in the Crimea as symbols of Ukraine's continued claim to the territory. The majority ethnic Ukrainians in the east might lean one way or another vis-a-vis foreign relations, but just as Russian-speaking Israelis are ultimately loyal to Israel, even if they might favor Russia in the foreign policy realm, Russian-speaking Ukrainians should have few issues as regards their allegiance to the Ukrainian state. Note that Pravda's assertion that the entire Ukrainian Navy had defected to Russia was wrong.

35 posted on 03/10/2014 6:20:14 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: McGruff
I think I'm turning into an isolationist.

Are you of Russian origin? If so, I understand the tribal reflexes. For anybody else who follows geopolitics closely, it's clear that the Russian seizure of the Crimea has the potential to become the second iteration of the German seizure of the Sudetenland. Like many of the old and large imperial powers (including China and Iran), Russian has its native tradition of "mission civilisatrice" - a world-conquering tradition to bring civilization to the benighted heathens, while drenching the Russian state/sovereign in martial glory. Man does not live by bread alone, and this was why Germany embarked on WWI and WWII at a time when Germany was the most productive, on a GDP per capita basis, major country in Europe.

36 posted on 03/10/2014 6:34:00 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: exit82

- Obama has UN dreams - Samantha Power, Cass Sunbeamstein -

- leading/losing from behind


37 posted on 03/10/2014 6:37:01 PM PDT by devolve (- Tell Vladimir after my erection I have more FLEXIBILITY -- I need more SPACE - BHO Jr -)
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To: ExNewsExSpook
This is more for show than blow...

Does this provide the western part of Ukraine with a way to direct its interceptors towards incoming Russian bogeys on a timely basis? Assuming the Russians kick off an invasion of eastern Ukraine and start by knocking off Ukraine's ground-based radar installations with HARM-type munitions.

38 posted on 03/10/2014 7:14:02 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: SunStar
"The Ukrainians will need to take care of themselves, I don’t see us coming to their aid anytime soon."

I wonder how the Ukrainians in US will feel/act if US goes back on their word.

OTOH, if US decides to back out of their agreement to protect Ukraine, USA should return/replace all the weapons Ukraine gave up.

39 posted on 03/10/2014 7:29:22 PM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: Norm Lenhart
"If we can stay the hell out of this long enough, Russia may well collapse the UN. And the EU as power blocs. WITHOUT killing half the continent. Which we would ALL benefit from. Anyone ever consider that? Anyone ever consider that is why Barry and McCain are so hell bent on getting us involved?"

No. barry and Mccain are bound by an agreement to protect Ukraine. it's that simple.

40 posted on 03/10/2014 7:34:33 PM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

If it were that simple then none of this constitutional usurping would be going on here at home...since they are bound by respective Constitutional powers.

Of course they never seem to let THAT stop them so I don’t forsee a foreign treaty making a lot of difference, do you? Really?


41 posted on 03/10/2014 8:01:43 PM PDT by Norm Lenhart
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To: McGruff

Agreed. This is the European Union’s gig.

Clever way to take over a mass of land. Look like you’re going to take over 2, then give one back. Everyone breathes a sigh of relief and you get the area (Crimea) that you wanted.


42 posted on 03/10/2014 8:16:16 PM PDT by JudyinCanada
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To: Tonytitan
This is only a good first step. And not a guaranteed reality at that.

Well, one of the first things that would have to happen is they would have to pledge and perform a huge firing/turnover and reduction in all bureaucracy.

A decertification of the unions would be nice .

43 posted on 03/10/2014 8:20:44 PM PDT by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: Marguerite

Healthcare in Crimea as such:

If ill and sent to hospital, your family must bring linens, food, medicines for patient. Hospital provides only bed.


44 posted on 03/10/2014 10:20:50 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Many are writing it was Pro-Russian activists who forced their way into a military hospital in Crimea.

Journalists should be asking Brussels about the French flights to/from NATO bases in Turkey, over Crimea, & into/out of Ukraine.


45 posted on 03/10/2014 10:36:06 PM PDT by caww
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To: McGruff

Ukraine’s Defense Ministry said a group of about 20 pro-’Russian activists’ from the so-called ‘Crimea self-defense squads’ had broken into the military hospital in the region’s main administrative city, Simferopol, and thrown out its chief.

In a later statement, it said the hospital chief was back at work after negotiations but added the premises were being blockaded ‘by the activists’.

However a CNN team that traveled to the hospital found it very quiet, with no one around. A guard on duty said he had not heard or seen anything unusual and that there was no senior official to speak with as Monday was a public holiday.

Russia, meanwhile, accused far-right groups Monday of “conniving” with the new authorities in Ukraine.
In a statement, the Russian Foreign Ministry condemned “lawlessness” in eastern Ukraine and accused the West of being silent over violence and detentions taking place against Russian citizens,

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/10/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html


46 posted on 03/10/2014 10:45:35 PM PDT by caww
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To: ExNewsExSpook

“I’m sure the appearance of NATO AWACS has Putin absolutely terrified.”

He has more important business to attend to, like welcoming the cosmonauts who landed in Kazakhstan after a stay of more than six months aboard the International Space Station.

Russians Oleg Kotov, Sergei Ryazansky and NASA astronaut Mike Hopkins touched down in their Soyuz capsule at 32:4 GMT outside Dzhezkazgan in Kazakhstan.

Would Obama, in retaliation for Crimea, forbid NASA to participate to ISS missions? That will show him, Putin, who’s the “boss”! I remind you that the US manned and unmanned missions to ISS rely exclusively on Russian rocketry.


47 posted on 03/10/2014 10:47:42 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Zhang Fei
Crimea ’s pro-Russian prime minister assembles 'his own army' in response to "the presence of illegal armed groups...... pro-Russian 'self defence unit' take an oath to Crimea government.

The problem from the get go is Journalists and citizens alike cannot tell one group from the other....and there are many active in Ukraine...they just assume it's Putins Russian Military or The Ukranian Military when in fact it's often neither..


48 posted on 03/10/2014 10:52:57 PM PDT by caww
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To: caww

Above is Crimea’s Prime Minister’s Army taking their oath.


49 posted on 03/10/2014 10:53:45 PM PDT by caww
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To: All
Russians Oleg Kotov, Sergei Ryazansky and NASA American astronaut Mike Hopkins, who came back aboard the Soyuz TMA-10M spaceship, look happy to be back on Earth, after spending several months on ISS.

Another American, Richard Mastracchio, is now manning the ISS with the Russian Mikhail Tyurin and the Japanese Koichi Wakata.

50 posted on 03/10/2014 10:57:40 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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