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Ted Cruz is Rand Paul's most dangerous foreign policy critic
Washington Examiner ^ | MARCH 11, 2014 AT 2:07 PM | Philip Klein

Posted on 03/11/2014 7:11:13 PM PDT by SoConPubbie

If Sen. Rand Paul has any hope of capturing the Republican presidential nomination in 2016, he'll have to convince the conservative base he can be trusted on foreign policy -- which is exactly why Sen. Ted Cruz is his most dangerous critic.

Though they have often been allies on domestic policy, anybody paying close attention knew that there was always a big gulf on foreign policy issues between Cruz, R-Texas, and Paul, R-Ky.

Whereas Cruz has a much more traditional Reaganite view of a strong role for America in the world, Paul seeks to advance his father's brand of non-interventionism, which advocates a more restrained U.S. role on the world stage. So it shouldn't come as any surprise that these disagreements have spilled into the open over the past week, with Cruz emphatically stating that he doesn't agree with Paul on foreign policy and Paul insisting Cruz mischaracterized his views.

It's important to keep in mind the broader historical context here. Though there has always been a subset of conservatives who have supported a more restrained, non-interventionist foreign policy, that generally hasn't been a mainstream view within the Republican Party. Over the course of two presidential campaigns, Rand's father, Ron Paul, raised his profile, but was never an actual threat to win the nomination, in no small part because his foreign policy views were out of sync with much of the party.

After winning his Senate seat in the 2010 Tea Party wave, Rand's challenge was to try to make his father's views more acceptable within the party and mount a more credible presidential campaign. To accomplish this, he's tried (with mixed success) to avoid the type of outrageous statements and controversies that doomed his father. At the same time, he's built up a following on fighting for limited government on domestic issues.

His best chance of making headway in a presidential race is to leverage the trust conservatives have for him on domestic issues to make his foreign policy views easier for conservatives to accept. If it's him debating foreign policy with the likes of New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie or other figures favored by the party's establishment, it would be much easier for Paul to muddy the waters. He could essentially argue, "Of course, big government establishment RINOs would smear my foreign policy views, because they're frightened of having a true conservative win."

That's much harder to do with Cruz in the picture. Cruz has at least as much credibility as Paul with the conservative base -- if not more. Whether or not Cruz runs, having him in the media amplifying the criticism of Paul's foreign policy views would make Paul's already difficult job of trying to appeal to a wider electorate that much harder. He cannot dismiss Cruz as just another establishment RINO trying to sabotage the candidacy of a genuine conservative. Anything Paul does to assert that he really believes in a strong role for the U.S. in global affairs risks alienating his father's energetic supporters, who favor a more restrained foreign policy. Anything he does to shore up support among this core group of his father's supporters would then feed into the criticism being lobbed by Cruz.

There's been a false impression created that Paul's non-interventionist views are gaining traction within the GOP. This idea has been based on trying to find superficial areas of agreement among Republicans (on issues such as opposing U.S. military action in Syria) that obscure fundamental disagreements. As I wrote in a column in September, a lot of conservative national security hawks opposed military intervention in Syria -- not because they shared Paul's views, but because they are more skeptical than neoconservatives of making democracy promotion a key tenet of foreign policy, and feared action would benefit Islamic militants. This is why Cruz opposed intervention at the time.

My working assumption has been that Paul isn't a serious threat to be the GOP presidential nominee in 2016, and his recent dust-up with Cruz only reaffirms that view.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Syria; US: Kentucky; US: New Jersey; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: 2014election; 2016election; 911truther; chrischristie; cruz; election2014; election2016; kentucky; libertarians; newjersey; rand; randpaul; randpaultruthfile; ronpaultruthfile; syria; tedcruz; texas
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"If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures." - Alexander Hamilton

 

"We don't intend to turn the Republican Party over to the traitors in the battle just ended. We will have no more of those candidates who are pledged to the same goals as our opposition and who seek our support. Turning the Party over to the so-called moderates wouldn’t make any sense at all." -- President Ronald Reagan

 

"A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper is always a virtue; but moderation in principle is always a vice." - Thomas Paine 1792

 

"It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." - Samuel Adams

 

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1 posted on 03/11/2014 7:11:13 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: SoConPubbie; exnavy; MarMema; skinkinthegrass; Bikkuri; o2bfree; 12th_Monkey; 230FMJ; TWhiteBear; ..
Ted Cruz Ping!

If you want on/off this ping list, please let me know.

Please beware, this is a high-volume ping list!
2 posted on 03/11/2014 7:11:37 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie; Jim Robinson
Mr. Jim Robinson's words are all I need to know:

Therefore, we wholeheartedly support the Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive strikes on known terrorist states and organizations that are believed to present a clear threat to our freedom or national security. We support our military, our troops and our Commander-in-Chief and we oppose turning control of our government back over to the liberals and socialists who favor appeasement, weakness, and subserviency. We do not believe in surrendering to the terrorists as France, Germany, Russia and Spain have done and as Kerry, Kennedy, Clinton and the Democrats, et al, are proposing.

Go Ted go! Go Jim go!

3 posted on 03/11/2014 7:17:33 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: SoConPubbie

Good grief. This Cruz vs. Paul dust up is the biggest non-event of the year so far. It’s very murky as to where they disagree, and it’s sooooooooooo obvious that the GOPe wants them feuding, or at least portrayed that way. They overlap on a wide array of issues, and are both hated by McCain (which is a HUGE plus for both). I don’t think Rand Paul can be the nominee for several reasons, and neither of them has any experience as a chief executive. They will both add greatly to the debate (along with Sarah Palin), but will not be the guy. In fact, they will both add more to the debate than the eventual nominee. In the meantime it would be nice if they would return their attention to the idiot who’s currently running the country into the ground.


4 posted on 03/11/2014 7:22:22 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: SoConPubbie

The choice of words by Philip Klein such as:
**** “dangerous critic’”and
**** “- - - isn’t a serious threat to be the GOP presidential nominee in 2016 - - - “
reveal the Left Stream Media bias of Philip Klein.


5 posted on 03/11/2014 7:22:33 PM PDT by Graewoulf (Democrats' Obamacare Socialist Health Insur. Tax violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: SoConPubbie

I don’t trust the Pauls. Weak on foreign policy, weak on the borders, weak on defending marriage.


6 posted on 03/11/2014 7:23:06 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
I don’t trust the Pauls. Weak on foreign policy, weak on the borders, weak on defending marriage.

You're right Jim, on all accounts where Paul is concerned.
7 posted on 03/11/2014 7:23:53 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: cdcdawg
They overlap on a wide array of issues, and are both hated by McCain (which is a HUGE plus for both). I don’t think Rand Paul can be the nominee for several reasons, and neither of them has any experience as a chief executive.

Neither did Lincoln.
8 posted on 03/11/2014 7:24:48 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: Jim Robinson

“I don’t trust the Pauls. Weak on foreign policy, weak on the borders, weak on defending marriage.”

My thought exactly. So I am concerned that CPAC was way more interested in Paul than Cruz. At least if you gauge popularity via their straw poll.


9 posted on 03/11/2014 7:25:46 PM PDT by vette6387
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To: vette6387

The Ron Paul organization has always been good at rallying the younger hot doggies to CPAC. That’s as far as it goes though.


10 posted on 03/11/2014 7:31:08 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: re_nortex

Would love to hear JR’s position on pre-emptively attacking Iran for their terrorist funding and the national security threat they possess.


11 posted on 03/11/2014 7:33:35 PM PDT by sagar
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To: SoConPubbie
Ted Cruz and Rand Paul going toe-to-toe in the Republican Primaries:

A RINO's dream come true!

12 posted on 03/11/2014 7:35:01 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: Jim Robinson

I have the same worries.

That said, a Cruz/Paul ticket would pull in a chunk of the Hispanic block, all of the Paulbots, and the vast majority of conservatives.


13 posted on 03/11/2014 7:35:37 PM PDT by Bobalu (Happiness is a fast ISR)
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To: sagar; Jim Robinson
Would love to hear JR’s position on pre-emptively attacking Iran for their terrorist funding and the national security threat they possess.

Rather than asking me, why not ask the boss? Good FReepers make a point to ping whomever is being discussed in a post. You've been here longer than me and that's a longstanding tradition of being a good guest here in Mr. Robinson's venue.

14 posted on 03/11/2014 7:37:30 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: cdcdawg
In the meantime it would be nice if they would return their attention to the idiot who’s currently running the country into the ground.

Why?

To what purpose?

It's not about Obama. It's not about defense.

I already know that they think or say our could do to "stop" Obama. Big deal. I'm interested in their take on what they think "Republican" should mean.

I hope I'm wrong, but ... Romney or somebody like him is going to rise like a vampire again in 2016. The primaries will make sure of it. Unless the GOP makes a 180. But no -- the conversation has to be about a weasel fraud like Obama.

Just sayin', be prepared for that "surprise."

15 posted on 03/11/2014 7:38:40 PM PDT by Finny (Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path. -- Psalm 119:105)
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To: cdcdawg

Just curious if you’re aware that Dr. Rand Paul owned and managed his own medical specialty practice?

I don’t disagree with your main point, in that I won’t be surprised if neither Cruz nor Paul ends up as the nominee from the conservative/liberatarian side of the aisle.

It’s clear neither will ever have full support fom the GOP-e and they’ll keep the pot stirred and the conservative circular firing squad well supplied with ammo.


16 posted on 03/11/2014 7:41:07 PM PDT by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: who_would_fardels_bear
A RINO's dream come true!

Not when they sucked up all the air in the room, so to speak and there are multiple RINOs running against them.

Furthermore, this is a necessary discussion.

Rand tends to throw up less than honest proposals because he is trying to keep his base, Libertarians, close to his side while trying to maintain the illusion he is also a conservative.
17 posted on 03/11/2014 7:42:06 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: re_nortex

Should never have allowed Iran to develop nukes. There’s going to be hell to pay for that.


18 posted on 03/11/2014 7:42:20 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Finny

Bashing Obama is nearly an end unto itself. That said, they are both outstanding critics of the President and his ideology. His views will live on after he is done. They need to be thoroughly discredited, and Paul and Cruz are both really good at it. There’s not a dime’s worth of difference between Hillary and Barack. Keep pounding him and pissing off the McCains of the world as a bonus.

The GOPe candidate of choice will be Christie or Bush. If we get a groundswell of grass roots support, maybe Rick Perry or Scott Walker could catch on fire and give us some hope. I would love to see either of them paired with Sarah Palin, but I’m probably dreaming.


19 posted on 03/11/2014 7:51:33 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: re_nortex

There is ocean size difference between going after terrorists with special units such as the Navy Seals and starting wars with sovereign nations without conclusive evidence of WMD’s. For example spending 2 Trillion dollars borrowed from China and Japan to attack Iraq was an ocean size folly. A country with debt bigger than GDP has no business protecting oil supplies to China and Japan from middle-east with borrowed money from China and Japan. It is plain stupid.


20 posted on 03/11/2014 7:56:32 PM PDT by entropy12 (If you did not vote, you helped elect the community organizer from south side of Chicago.)
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To: bigbob

Yes, I’m aware of Rand’s bio, and I think it’s great. There far too many lawyers in Congress. Senators have not generally made Presidents, much less good ones. I don’t think Rand can be the nominee because of his gay marriage comment (which I thought was hilarious), the Southern Avenger (which I don’t hold against either of them), and his desire to reign in the Fed. That last one means that he probably is barred from winning. It would be awesome for somebody else to win, then sick Rand on the Fed. Somebody needs to turn over a few tables there.

I like Cruz a lot. He is probably the most eloquent presenter of conservatism not named Rush Limbaugh. He would slaughter any possible Demo opponent in a debate. He is still something of a political newcomer on the national scene, has no executive experience, and has possible eligibility issues that the press will harp on non-stop.

Our best bet will be from the crop of governors, not including Bruce Springsteen’s BFF.


21 posted on 03/11/2014 8:04:16 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: entropy12
For example spending 2 Trillion dollars borrowed from China and Japan to attack Iraq was an ocean size folly.

Under the fearless leadership of President George W. Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney as well as our brave military, Iraq was vanquished in short order. And indeed "we fought them over there so we don't have to fight them here" was a winning strategy. Regardless of some of the shortcomings of the Bush/Cheney team, America was kept safe under their watch.

The fiasco of Iraq started under the obama regime and it goes without saying that the terrorism held in check by President Bush and his administration flourished once hussein bama and his corrupt pro-muzzie cronies took office.


22 posted on 03/11/2014 8:11:20 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: SoConPubbie

Cat-fight, ‘Meow’


23 posted on 03/11/2014 8:19:24 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : 'You can keep your doctor if you want. I never tell a lie ')
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To: sickoflibs

What do you have against Cruz?


24 posted on 03/11/2014 8:20:21 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ansel12

RE :”What do you have against Cruz?”

Meow,,,,


25 posted on 03/11/2014 8:21:22 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : 'You can keep your doctor if you want. I never tell a lie ')
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To: re_nortex

The attack on Iraq would be justified if we had surplus money in the treasury. We are a bankrupt outfit by any generally accepted standard of accounting. To borrow money from China which we can not pay back and leave it on the heads of our younger generations is immoral, stupid and moronic. Trying to convert Muslim nations to democracy is a fool’s paradise.


26 posted on 03/11/2014 8:22:16 PM PDT by entropy12 (If you did not vote, you helped elect the community organizer from south side of Chicago.)
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To: SoConPubbie

Typically neocon article. Now their strategy, apparently, is to try to split the Tea Party. Cruz and Paul aren’t that far apart on foreign policy. They’re both advocates of a national-interest based foreign policy. There are some degrees of difference on where you draw the line over involvement, but not much difference even on that.


27 posted on 03/11/2014 8:24:08 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: sickoflibs

You think he’s a cat?

I see you denigrate Cruz on many threads, there must be more to it than that.


28 posted on 03/11/2014 8:24:58 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: entropy12

Our GIs will be thrilled to know that you want them to fight our battles inside the cities of countries that we aren’t war with, without near support, and in small teams of 10 and 20 men.

They’ll really respect you for thinking of their survival.


29 posted on 03/11/2014 8:28:05 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: entropy12
Well, of course it was hussein obama who ruined the plans in place with regard to Iraq. Notably, had Sarah Palin (and the guy she ran with back in 2008) won, the Bush/Cheney program would have continued and we'd be doing "drill baby drill" over there and reaping the rewards from the Iraq oil fields.

But obama ruthlessly and illegally seized power and then did a cut and run operation undoing the longterm Iraq strategy.

30 posted on 03/11/2014 8:31:38 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: ansel12
RE :”I see you denigrate Cruz on many threads, there must be more to it than that.”

Oh you do do you?

Meow, catfight.

I got butter on my popcorn.

31 posted on 03/11/2014 8:32:55 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Obama : 'You can keep your doctor if you want. I never tell a lie ')
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To: SoConPubbie

The GOP-e and many libertarians share this belief and that's why's so many are falling out of favor with the conservative-right base, IMO.

32 posted on 03/11/2014 8:34:17 PM PDT by Ron H. (Ted Cruz for President in 2016.)
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To: ansel12

Our GI team of just a dozen men did just great in killing the head serpent hiding in Abotabad, Pakistan. Very quick,
deadly effective and very cost effective.


33 posted on 03/11/2014 8:35:18 PM PDT by entropy12 (If you did not vote, you helped elect the community organizer from south side of Chicago.)
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To: entropy12

34 posted on 03/11/2014 8:42:04 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: entropy12

All it took was 10 years of searching killing and hunting and defeating nations and establishing bases and staging areas and keeping Pakistan scared.

It was just like the movies, put on some face paint and dozen man teams can carry all the international weight of our military needs, and travel the world taking out Saddam Husseins and dictators and their command staffs, and their naval forces, and nuclear assets, and armies.

War is over, we have commando teams, we should have sent in a team to keep Iran from going nuke, maybe we can use them to prevent Chinese military expansion.


35 posted on 03/11/2014 8:49:50 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: SoConPubbie

Well we all knew Rand and Ted would have to square off at some point.. They both want to be President and there is only one vacancy.


36 posted on 03/11/2014 9:02:48 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: ansel12

China is killing us economically. We import much more than export to them. Then we borrow more from them to protect oil supplies to them through the straits of Hormuz. They are our new masters because of money, not weapons. But financially not very astute people will not understand this.


37 posted on 03/11/2014 9:09:54 PM PDT by entropy12 (If you did not vote, you helped elect the community organizer from south side of Chicago.)
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To: Georgia Girl 2

Well, they can form the ticket together.


38 posted on 03/11/2014 9:10:39 PM PDT by entropy12 (If you did not vote, you helped elect the community organizer from south side of Chicago.)
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To: Jim Robinson
I also don't trust the Paul's, on Israel, as some conservative Christians took Rand along on a trip to the Holy Land to introduce him to the people, the leaders, everything that believers want to protect because that's what the scriptures tell us, but never heard him utter a word in favor of defending the only democracy in the Middle East.

Ron Paul is especially untrustworthy on Israel and I've yet to hear anything from Rand that makes me feel he doesn't fall from the same tree.

39 posted on 03/11/2014 9:11:34 PM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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To: vette6387

The audience seemed very interested in legalizing drugs, which the Paul’s favor or rather having no war on drugs or even treating drugs as alcohol, which definitely pleased the CPAC attendees.


40 posted on 03/11/2014 9:15:15 PM PDT by zerosix (Native Sunflower)
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To: entropy12

Go start a thread on that.


41 posted on 03/11/2014 9:15:19 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: vette6387

Here, you can see how meaningless it is.

1976 Ronald Reagan
1980 Ronald Reagan
1984 Ronald Reagan
1986 Jack Kemp
1987 Jack Kemp
1993 Jack Kemp
1995 Phil Gramm
1998 Steve Forbes
1999 Gary Bauer
2000 George W. Bush
2005 Rudy Giuliani
2006 George Allen
2007 Mitt Romney
2008 Mitt Romney
2009 Mitt Romney
2010 Ron Paul
2011 Ron Paul
2012 Mitt Romney
2013 Rand Paul
2014 Rand Paul


42 posted on 03/11/2014 9:17:56 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: entropy12

Would’nt that be great? It will never happen but a good thought.


43 posted on 03/11/2014 9:24:46 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: SoConPubbie

I see the neo-cons are out gunning for Paul again.


44 posted on 03/11/2014 9:25:23 PM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb

I didn’t think that Jim Robinson was a neo-con, I thought he was a conservative, and you are a libertarian.


45 posted on 03/11/2014 9:31:59 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: ansel12
You might want to read What’s a Neoconservative?

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/whats-a-neoconservative/

And for your information I am a Constitutional Conservative aka classical liberal not a libertarian. And you are a liar for calling me one.

46 posted on 03/11/2014 9:41:51 PM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: jpsb

So Jim is a neo-con according to you, and I wasn’t lying about you being libertarian, I just can’t keep up with all the ways you guys make up things and titles and descriptions for yourselves to fight conservatism.

Flowery descriptions and grand titles to push liberalism.


47 posted on 03/11/2014 9:47:04 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Libertarianism offers the transitory concepts and dialogue to move from conservatism, to liberalism)
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To: Jim Robinson

“I don’t trust the Pauls. Weak on foreign policy, weak on the borders, weak on defending marriage.”

And IIRC Paul senior was a bitter critic of Ronald Reagan.


48 posted on 03/11/2014 9:48:54 PM PDT by Pelham (If you do not deport it is amnesty by default.)
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To: ansel12

The only person making stuff up is you. I can’t help it if you are to dense to read and comprehend the meaning of words.


49 posted on 03/11/2014 9:52:17 PM PDT by jpsb (Believe nothing until it has been officially denied)
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To: SoConPubbie
"My working assumption has been that Paul isn't a serious threat to be the GOP presidential nominee in 2016, and his recent dust-up with Cruz only reaffirms that view."

I concur.

50 posted on 03/11/2014 9:55:19 PM PDT by matthew fuller (No, I don't miss GWB- I miss Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld.)
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