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Ukraine Warns Of 'Full Scale' Invasion As Russia Moves Its Artillery Close To The Borders
Daily Mail ^ | March 12, 2014

Posted on 03/12/2014 1:06:43 PM PDT by Strategy

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To: JimSEA

Those people were there for a very long time. They’re not new residents. I believe many of them have been there at least three generations. What’s different now is that Putin is using the same tactic that Hitler used regarding Germans outside of Nazi Germany. That is, he creates a situation where there is unrest, as he’s done in Ukraine with his puppet who was overthrown. Then, Putin, perforce as he’d have us believe, comes to the rescue. Sure, it’ll fool some people. Certainly, his fan club here, the Putinistas are fooled, but not many are fooled in Europe. It’s been a real wake up call for Europe; they see how feckless Obama is and they see how cynical Putin is. Possibly, this will get them to break out their pocketbooks and buy the types of weapons needed to protect themselves. In addition, it’s time for the US and its business to show the nations that care to be energy independent how to do it. We have the technology and must find the will. This will do more to break Putin and peacefully end Putinanista-ism than anything else available, like sanctions. Sanctions targeted at Putin’s crony capitalist pals will help. But it’s energy independence that will beat Putin. Never was the need more urgent.


51 posted on 03/12/2014 2:21:18 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: Marguerite

Where in Russia are you from?


52 posted on 03/12/2014 2:21:59 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: No One Special

Life’s burdens are many these days...I am so glad I have a close-knit family, a strong and supportive church, and a wonderful community to live in! I thank God for my blessings throughout the day and hesitate to ask for other things when I see/hear of so many others who are in greater need or more desperate situations.

I am not a soothsayer or a visionary, but I can see how things are lining up in the world and it is not a rosy perspective. I can’t afford the luxury of living in la-la land so I probably tend to be more realistic and even pessimistic than others. Oh, well, I know how God plans for it to end since I do read my Bible! :) That gives me great comfort...


53 posted on 03/12/2014 2:23:17 PM PDT by sassy steel magnolia
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To: Strategy

Ah, how Ukraine wishes they hadn’t given up all their nukes right about now.


54 posted on 03/12/2014 2:24:57 PM PDT by montag813
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To: sassy steel magnolia
I would feel much safer if US troops were on our southern border and we sent home our invaders and kept them out.

The Ukrainian thugs poked the bear in the eye and now want us to fight for them? We have our own country that needs saving.

55 posted on 03/12/2014 2:26:19 PM PDT by grania
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To: Marguerite

The issue is that you seem more than ready to have many die (not you of course) for Putin’s glory. I have followed your postings, and I don’t know what you are exactly, but a real American, certainly not.

Nice try changing the subject, comrade.


56 posted on 03/12/2014 2:27:19 PM PDT by Agog
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To: Marguerite

Every time I hear someone say that Reagan was not a great president, I want to ask them how they would end the USSR without firing a shot?


57 posted on 03/12/2014 2:29:41 PM PDT by Delta Dawn (Fluent in two languages: English and cursive.)
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To: elhombrelibre

That’s all you know? Accusing everyone who doesn’t share your views to be either Russian, Serb, Libyan or any other nationality you fathom to be your “enemy”

I’m not from Russia, doofus, but I don’t want your crazy, inept president to start a nuclear war in Europe. What’s the US beef with Ukraine anyway, how is that its bloody business?
Don’t you think that is high time America stop meddling in other countries’ affairs? Hasn’t it bomb enough countries to “save” them?


58 posted on 03/12/2014 2:30:07 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite

“In the current crisis facing Ukraine, however, it is clear that U.S. government leaders are using the Memorandum as the basis for claims that Russia is acting illegally, and that, therefore, there must be some kind of response by the other signers of that agreement, if not from the international community in general. Thus, the official U.S. position is that the Memorandum is, in fact, legally binding.”

http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2014/03/constitution-check-does-a-1994-diplomatic-agreement-commit-the-u-s-to-defend-ukraine/

we can try to have it both ways but Putin won’t let that happen nor will Ukraine. If we back down, we are weak. If we push him, we are weak. It is a terrible situation for Ukraine, Europe and the rest of the world to be in.

It’s like being in an old Western saloon waiting for the guy who’s observed someone cheating to start the action going by calling the cheater out, the others at the table get angry and guns start going off...only there is no strong sheriff to come set to right all the wrongs.


59 posted on 03/12/2014 2:32:08 PM PDT by sassy steel magnolia
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To: grania

“I would feel much safer if US troops were on our southern border and we sent home our invaders and kept them out.”

Hear, Hear!


60 posted on 03/12/2014 2:34:57 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: grania

yes, our southern border is indeed as open as a friendly neighbor’s back door! But we will not see military stationed along that perimeter ever. We might get an enhanced DHS or Obummer’s national civilian force (amped up with former military equipment and vehicles) patrolling it...but I highly doubt it.

I bet some of the poking of the Russian bear was at the instigation of both Russian and American intel agents who were trying to push the internal struggles to the forefront. Only our weak president underestimated the very sly Russian president. After all, we didn’t really do anything for Georgia, and Putin knows it. This is a poker game that he is winning at the moment...


61 posted on 03/12/2014 2:37:35 PM PDT by sassy steel magnolia
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To: Marguerite

Oh, so you are not an American. That’s cool. But I guess I touched a nerve exposing you, not that your poor syntax and grammar doesn’t show you’re not a native English speaker. That’s cool too. And I’m sure with your cheer leading for Putin and your calloused remarks about the Ukrainians you’re just a disinterested good Samaritan trying to save the world from nuclear war. Keep up the good work, comrade.


62 posted on 03/12/2014 2:38:10 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: elhombrelibre

Well Sai.


63 posted on 03/12/2014 2:39:32 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: JimSEA

Well said.


64 posted on 03/12/2014 2:40:40 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: sassy steel magnolia

“It’s like being in an old Western saloon”

Except that it isn’t. Lock up Kerry on his yacht and send Obama on an extended vacation to Hawaii. This crazy brawling escalation must be stopped already. They are not acting like statemen , but as petulant teenagers...


65 posted on 03/12/2014 2:40:52 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: elhombrelibre; Marguerite

Elhombre has a specialty; I’ve run into it before.

Topic doesn’t even matter really.


66 posted on 03/12/2014 2:41:45 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: JimSEA

Isn’t she a hoot. Where’d they find her to do their propaganda work, or him for that matter. “Comrade Marguerite, we have great mission for earnest former soviet communist. You must go on US American type message board, comrade. Teach foolish American people to love President for Life Putin. Use your special English learned in watching America cinema. That is all, comrade.”


67 posted on 03/12/2014 2:45:05 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: little jeremiah

Thanks, LJ.


68 posted on 03/12/2014 2:46:19 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: Strategy

The same characters repeat history, even in U.S. politics. “Low information” political sentiments here were similar immediately before each of the first world wars and the First Cold War. International bullies led by tyrants do what they do again and again. Here we go again—Cold War II (the real CWII) and maybe much worse to follow.

Here’s some info with a map and a table for those interested in learning.

Corruption Perceptions Index 2013
“ranks countries and territories based on how corrupt their public sector is perceived to be.”
http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2013/results/


69 posted on 03/12/2014 2:48:42 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Marguerite

I think the situation is escalating faster than any of us other than Putin can imagine!

Unfortunately unless we have our own revolution here, we are stuck with Obummer until the next election (if we actually have one—could imagine a false flag that causes him to start martial law and cancel elections). As for Kerry, yep, he does us no favors...nor did Hilarious Clinton...and I thought Great Britain’s Chamberlain was a lily. Where have all the strong leaders gone that knew right from wrong, dared to speak up and stand for the truth? Instead we have a president trying to sell to the millenials a bad healthcare law, a boob of a VP who constantly puts his feet in his mouth, mr milk toast Harry Reid, wide eyed and crazy Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the nuts lying, lying, lying and spending, spending, spending.

Are we screwed or what???!!!


70 posted on 03/12/2014 2:50:08 PM PDT by sassy steel magnolia
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To: dartuser

The U.S. will soon say that Kosovo independence must be overturned?

Why?

Because when Albanians desired independence, the West said that Albanain desire for independence trumped Serbia’s right to territorial sovereignty. Now that Crimeans desire independence (and 58% of Crimeans are Russian) surely the West will say that Crimean desire (or Eastern Ukranian desire for independence for Western Ukraine) will trump Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty. Surely...

/s.


71 posted on 03/12/2014 2:53:05 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Marguerite
Here is a nice documentary for you on Putin. I'm sure you'll watch it and enjoy it. It's about how he came to power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpiZw1R8w-c

72 posted on 03/12/2014 2:53:26 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: tcrlaf
Well, Rules for Radicals are impotent when you don't have leverage over the adversary. The whole concept of Rules is to use existing laws against the law abiding.
73 posted on 03/12/2014 2:54:52 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I recall seeing the Kosovars in Albania where they’d fled. I recall the ethnic cleansing of Milosevic and the foolish war he took his nation into. It was their third war. First he fought the Slovenians and lost. Then, he lost against the Croats. Then, he went to war with the Kosovars in Kosova to protect the Serbs. Of course, they managed to push the unarmed Kosovars out. As the Serbs took the towns, they blew up the houses by turning on the gas ovens and then after enough gas had escaped they’d throw grenades into the homes and the house would blow up and the roof would come off. So yes, I can see why you’d be sarcastic. But what I cannot see is that any Russians in Crimea or in Ukraine have been forced out of their country and their homes in Ukraine. But an exact or even close comparison doesn’t matter, does it?


74 posted on 03/12/2014 2:59:00 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: dartuser

Ukraine is a deadbeat country that can’t pay its gas bills even at 50 % discount. Not a country to go to war over.


75 posted on 03/12/2014 3:01:47 PM PDT by sunrise_sunset
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To: elhombrelibre; All

Logically fallacious Emotional Appeal from you.

NATO violated the 1973 War Powers act, and NATO’s “defensive” charter, even though Serbia was not a threat to NATO member nations.

If the U.S. doesn’t say “return Kosovo to Serbia,” then we will be called hypocrites. If we don’t stand up to Putin we will be seen as weak.


76 posted on 03/12/2014 3:08:02 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: goldstategop
And if Putin decides to take over half of Ukraine ....

Half?

In for a lamb, in for a sheep. Who's going to tell him 'no'?

77 posted on 03/12/2014 3:08:33 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: sefarkas
Who signed on for Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons?

Slick.

78 posted on 03/12/2014 3:10:08 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
it was against the developing tyranny of the Russian puppet

While developing a tyranny here at home?

79 posted on 03/12/2014 3:21:56 PM PDT by Count of Monte Fisto (The foundation of modern society is the denial of reality.)
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To: Marguerite; elhombrelibre
I’m not from Russia, doofus, but I don’t want your crazy, inept president to start a nuclear war in Europe. What’s the US beef with Ukraine anyway, how is that its bloody business?

So how's the weather in Moscow, comrade?

80 posted on 03/12/2014 3:31:43 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Uh, yeah, Obama is a real hero for freedom.


81 posted on 03/12/2014 3:39:01 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

How is that a reply to anything I wrote?


82 posted on 03/12/2014 3:41:10 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: 353FMG

” Have they tried accusing Putin of racism yet?

Perhaps that will work in international affairs as much as it works at home.”

accusations of “homophobia” didn’t seem to work either...


83 posted on 03/12/2014 4:18:36 PM PDT by Reverend Wright ( Josey Wales asks: How is it with stains ?)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
I thought it was appropriate to the line:

If the U.S. was involved in anything, it was against the developing tyranny of the Russian puppet.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

84 posted on 03/12/2014 4:19:51 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: dartuser

The nineties are calling, they want their Kenyan goofball back.


85 posted on 03/12/2014 5:22:39 PM PDT by PA-RIVER
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To: lentulusgracchus; sefarkas
Who signed on for Ukraine to give up its nuclear weapons?

Slick.

It was a very good idea at the time and its still a very good idea. A corrupt bankrupt nuclear power is not good for the Eurasia or the Europe.

86 posted on 03/12/2014 5:31:19 PM PDT by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
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To: Resolute Conservative

Tell Vladimir I’m more flexible in my pink panties after my next election.


87 posted on 03/12/2014 5:39:09 PM PDT by PA-RIVER
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To: sassy steel magnolia

WOW...scairy, but so eloquent post...I fear you may be so right. During WW II we had strong,patriotic young men who were ready to fight to protect this country...Now we have so few honorable men who are brave and answer the call. And the families during the 30’s and forties were strong, believed in God and country and could survive a depression and World War..Rosie the Riveter is now replaced by Beyonce wannabe’s.
Lord, have Mercy on us.


88 posted on 03/12/2014 6:02:13 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie
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To: elhombrelibre

Good points!


89 posted on 03/12/2014 6:06:31 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie
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To: sassy steel magnolia

with wisdom comes vexation....


90 posted on 03/12/2014 6:07:38 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie
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To: sassy steel magnolia

Oh please they already have the Universal Service Draft order waiting on Charlie Rangel’s desk from this time last year.

Like other WW they will draft people and I do mean people ...as it is a Universal Service Draft.

They’ve been dying to do this for over a decade, they just need their ‘reason.’


91 posted on 03/12/2014 6:09:17 PM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed...)
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To: Strategy; Fennie

Are you two related?


92 posted on 03/12/2014 6:16:46 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Strategy

Artillery shakes the earth...Makes people crazy thinking the world is coming to an end. For many it does. Even on the friendly end it’s down right scary.


93 posted on 03/12/2014 8:03:32 PM PDT by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: dartuser
An old report (2007), but goes a long way to explaining Vlad. Surprisingly frank, especially since it was shown on CBC (aka PravdaKanada). Link
94 posted on 03/12/2014 9:17:57 PM PDT by A Formerly Proud Canadian (I once was blind, but now I see...)
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To: cuban leaf

I think Americans often fall into the trap of thinking the Russian army has not changed since 1942. The idea that the Russians still use human wave tactics using soldiers with no rifles and masses of antique armor is simply no longer true. That is North Korea, not Russia. Putin commands a modern military that for all its flaws decisively won three wars over the last decade and is full of battle hardened veterans.

Crimea was classic blitzkrieg using a combined push of sleeper units, special forces, navy, airpower, infantry, fifth column traitors, and a massive propaganda campaign (so successful that it is routinely echoed on FR). They caught the West with their pants down and achieved a significant and even bloodless military victory. Sure, Russians are still behind us in technology, but the idea that these are untrained peasants, with one gun per squad, that need to be shot at from behind to advance is false.


95 posted on 03/12/2014 9:22:01 PM PDT by BurningOak (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2830849/reply?c=1)
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To: Strategy; grania; caww
"The secretary of Ukraine's National Security and National Defence Committee Andriy Parubiy claimed Russia has 80,000 troops, 280 tanks and 170 aircraft massed on the border ready to invade."

Russia’s Defense Ministry has given permission for a surveillance flight by Ukraine over Russian territory near the border between the countries. Kiev had claimed Moscow was building up its military presence there. Russia and Ukraine are entitled to surveillance flights over each other's territories following the Open Skies treaty signed in 1992. “We have decided to allow such a flight. We hope that our neighbors are assured that there is no military activity that threatens them on the border.”

Russia Deputy Defense Minister Antonov vehemently denied a statement Tuesday by Igor Tenyukh, defense minister for the Kiev coup-appointed government, that Russia had amassed more than 220,000 troops, 1,800 tanks and over 400 helicopters in regions adjacent to eastern Ukraine.

"I would dissuade Mr Tenyukh from adding fuel to the fire of the crisis, which is what he appears to be doing."

http://t.co/G7c5nHtbvz

96 posted on 03/12/2014 10:28:06 PM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I don’t even think the Serbians want Kosovo now as long as those Serbs who live there are safe. Have you ever been there?


97 posted on 03/12/2014 10:53:05 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

It’s typical that when you criticize Putin you’re accused of being in favor of Obama. It’s as if some of the Putinistas believe that we must be for one form of statism and the cult of personality. While many of us thing it’s obvious we should reject both Putin and Obama and that neither is in anyway a conservative. That truism is beyond the ken of the Putinista true believers.


98 posted on 03/12/2014 10:56:20 PM PDT by elhombrelibre (Free Ukraine. Free Venezuela. Free Syria. Free Iran. Free the USA.)
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To: Marguerite

Maruerite...I’ve been hours on line about Ukraine..EU...IMF and the political and action groups... who are all moving more than quickly to undergird Ukraine and give it’s Gov. recognition. Billions are marked to go to these guys!

Here’s a taste of what the USA is going to do....one government committee to go there after another (who we will fund!) Just get a look see at this!

Increased U.S. Cooperation with Ukraine

Fact Sheet
Office of the Spokesperson
Washington, DC
March 12, 2014
Share
Ukraine is facing a moment of historic challenge and historic opportunity. In the coming months, the Government of Ukraine will need to take steps to restore economic stability and to conduct free, fair, and inclusive presidential elections to allow the Ukrainian people to choose their own future.

During Prime Minister Yatsenyuk’s visit to Washington today, we discussed specific steps the United States is taking to support Ukraine at this critical time, including the $1 billion loan guarantee we are working with Congress to provide, and the package of technical and other assistance we are preparing, to meet Ukraine’s priority needs. Specific U.S. assistance measures and initiatives discussed today include the following:

Reaffirming our Partnership

We intend to resume activities of the Strategic Partnership Commission at the Ministerial level with the goal of deepening the U.S.-Ukrainian Strategic Partnership in the areas of nuclear security and nonproliferation, political dialogue and rule of law, energy security, security cooperation, and science and technology.

The Department of Commerce will organize a U.S.-Ukraine Business Summit in Washington, DC that will bring together senior-level USG and GOU officials, U.S. companies with investments in Ukraine, and leading economic and legal experts on the Ukrainian market, to discuss how to increase economic growth in Ukraine and deepen our bilateral commercial relationship.

The Department of Commerce, working together with the State Department and USTR, will develop an Innovation Council that will focus on creating the eco-system required to accelerate entrepreneurship and develop the legal culture and infrastructure for innovation in Ukraine.

Special Envoy for International Energy Affairs Carlos Pascual will visit Kyiv this month for a meeting of the Energy Security Working Group, which will focus on efforts to boost Ukraine’s energy security, including energy efficiency and the development of alternative energy sources.

The Department of Defense will hold U.S.-Ukraine Bilateral Defense Consultations with Ukrainian counterparts in Kyiv within the next month.

A senior-level Department of Commerce delegation will travel to Kyiv to conduct relationship-building with key GOU officials, streamlining future bilateral work on market access cases, pending investments, and means for addressing systemic issues affecting our bilateral commercial relationship.

We will hold a meeting of the bilateral Trade and Investment Council through the U.S. Trade Representative’s Office to address barriers to trade and investment and explore expanding commercial ties, boosting the investment climate.

Immediate Assistance

Support for the May presidential elections. The United States will double its planned assistance to support electoral law reform to improve election administration, provide election monitoring, and promote robust involvement by a strong and independent civil society and media.

Department of Defense (DoD) personnel will organize a Humanitarian Assistance Planning Conference with the Ukrainian Armed Forces. DoD will provide Meals Ready to Eat (MREs) to the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Support for asset recovery efforts. Department of Justice and FBI teams are already in Ukraine to provide strategic advice and capacity building to locate the proceeds of corruption looted by former officials. The State Department also will offer additional assistance and technical expertise for bilateral and multilateral efforts to facilitate Ukraine’s efforts to recover these assets located in overseas financial institutions.

New technical support to help Ukraine with immediate economic management challenges. The United States is providing expertise to help the Ukrainian Ministry of Finance and Central Bank navigate near-term economic challenges. The Department of Treasury has already deployed an expert advisor and the United States stands ready to provide additional assistance to meet Ukraine’s near-term economic and financial management needs.

Enhancing People-to-People Contacts

The Department of State will expand funding for the inaugural year of the U.S.-Ukraine Fulbright Science and Technology Education Program (”STEP”), a pilot project that will fully fund the travel and studies of a select group of Ukrainian graduate students at U.S. universities in the 2014-2015 academic year.

The Global Undergraduate Exchange Program will double the number of Ukrainian students for the 2014-15 academic year.

Over 50 additional future leaders of Ukraine will be eligible for short-term exchanges and professional experiences in the United States in critically important fields.

The United States will establish an Alumni Innovation Grant Competition for Ukrainian alumni of U.S. Government exchange programs to allow the best alumni to launch ideas that will benefit their country’s future.


99 posted on 03/12/2014 11:21:43 PM PDT by caww
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To: AU72
Holding that many assets active in place is very expensive. Putin probably has a timetable

It costs Putin nothing to drive ten or twenty artillery pieces back and forth along the border. They have no targets to shoot at, and they have no offensive value that I can comprehend. However they have plenty of value to scare the new government in Kiev - the government that has no experience in governing and that has no support from the Ukrainian Army (and that has no Ukrainian Navy at this point.) This activity is just to fill time before Crimea can vote on a referendum that is scheduled for March 16, in about 3 days from now. Its results are easy to predict, if opinion polls in Crimea make any sense. Crimea may be given considerable trade preferences.

Once that happens, the new government in Kiev will have to explain to the remaining (so far) Ukraine how they managed to lose Crimea. It's not a good plan for a politician to begin the reign with a major loss. Ukraine may easily lose several other Eastern provinces; if that happens, Crimea and Russia will be connected with a land corridor. It is not unreasonable to think that this may happen - Ukraine is so poor (due to mismanagement, not due to lack of resources or of educated workers) that merely joining Russia already boosts the income of the population. After the dust settles, Westerners will only have their historical territories, and they will be surrounded by people who have centuries of animosity against them due to the complicated nature of many land grabs in the last 1,000 years.

100 posted on 03/12/2014 11:57:38 PM PDT by Greysard
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