Ukraine: Who's doing the sniping?

SCGNews

[varmintman]

Apparently going viral tonight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fWkfpGCAAuw

[icwhatudo]

Interesting. Worth a look.

[A Formerly Proud Canadian]

This tells me all I need to know about Podpolkovnik Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

[A Formerly Proud Canadian]

This tells me all I need to know about Podpolkovnik Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.

[A Formerly Proud Canadian]

Wrong link, please see post# 4.

[varmintman]

How believable it is, I don’t know. Nonetheless in order for it not to be believable, you almost have to believe that George Soros, Victoria Nuland, John Iscariot McCain and Bork Obunga are good people....

[FreeReign]

The conversation was Estonian Foreign Minister Paet reporting to Ashton what some doctor named Olga told him.

Paet and the Estonian government denies that it is his point of view.

So find this doctor named Olga and find out if she is telling the truth or lying.

The video doesn't make this clear.

And it goes on from there with other misinformation.

[Hostage]

Misstatement of facts throughout. For example, claiming China is responsible for keeping US economy afloat with their money. China no longer buys US debt; they have been getting out of US bonds for some time now.

What keeps the US government awash in dollars is QE, not China.

[WhiskeyX]

False propaganda using half truths to create a boatload of lies.

[Mount Athos]

This guy puts slick presentation and authoritative voice over a mixture of interesting less known facts, half truths, and outright falsehoods.

He is conspiracy oriented, which isn’t automatically discrediting for a subject like Ukraine, but this guy has history of sloppiness with facts.

The first part is clearly phony, the call only establishes they have good reason for believing the same snipers shot both cops and protesters.

That’s very interesting and surprising information, but not the same as saying the new coalition hired them. Who hired them? Don’t know. Ask “who benefits”

Concerns about Svoboda are well founded. Anti jew, anti minority, etc.. This guy should have admitted they are only a smaller part of the coalition. Excluding them completely disenfranchises the representation for millions of people and gives Russia permanent dominance.

If they’re going to talk about ugliness of Svoboda, and influence of the west, why not also talk about legitimate concerns with party of regions, bribery and corruption? Big money and influence from Russian oligarch and government?
Corruption is epic on both sides.

[BlueDragon]

I should have made a thread concerning this article-----> http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/prominent-ukrainian-doctor-is-no-ordinary-revolutionary/article17384018/

On another thread days ago I posted this extract from that article;

She has already been the subject of one dirty trick. This week someone leaked a telephone conversation between the Estonian Foreign Minister and EU Foreign Affairs chief Catherine Ashton, which suggested that the doctor had said both protesters and police used snipers during last month’s clash. The revelation caused an uproar and called the protest movement into question.

Dr. Bogomolets insisted that she did not indicate that protesters used snipers. She simply relayed to the Estonian minister what she saw that day – protesters shot in the head and heart. “What I saw were people who were killed by snipers and only on [protesters’] side.”

That article came about as follow up to the accusation arising from the alleged 'hacked' conversation --- where this person "Olga" is supposed to have told the Estonian Prime Minister what he claims. Obviously, something went awry, for Dr. Bogomolets is on record as insisting she did not say what this person Urmas Paet claims(?) she said.

For a bit more background, there was a previous widely reported item, from Feb.18 this year, when things really began to heat up, and the Berkut switched from previously using 'rubber' bullets, like this;

and from Jan. 20 Financial Times article [below]

found here also

switching from those type of things, water cannon, tear gas, etc, to using conventional ammunition, with this Dr. Bogomolets being quoted on Feb 18 Ukraine protesters 'shot with metal bullets'

See how well the Kremlin spins things opposite than they are? They have to, to justify sending in the Russian Army to "protect" the Crimea -- from "protesters" which oppose (among other things) being under Russian thumb. As WhiskeyX put it;

False propaganda using half truths to create a boatload of lies.

[Mount Athos]

Your message is as blindly one sided as the article posted here, but on the other side.

Why pretend the “protesters” were as gentle as lambs, when they were systematically burning police with molotovs, throwing heavy objects and beating them with clubs?

Why mention police escalating by using stronger ammo, without mentioning protesters were also increasingly using guns?

What should the police have done against the protesters firing guns at them in this video:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=34e_1392746107

[varmintman]

This guy puts slick presentation and authoritative voice over a mixture of interesting less known facts, half truths, and outright falsehoods.

Bullshit. This stuff is perfectly straight up and yet appears to have been blacked out to such an extent in Western media that both Drudge and the FR forum missed it. A simple Google search on "Paet ashton snipers" will turn up as much as you want.

Our government has found net another bunch of barbarians to support.

[varmintman]

She has already been the subject of one dirty trick. This week someone leaked a telephone conversation between the Estonian Foreign Minister and EU Foreign Affairs chief Catherine Ashton, which suggested that the doctor had said both protesters and police used snipers during last month’s clash.

She did not claim that both cops and protesters had their own snipers; she said that the same snipers were killing both cops and protesters, you can listen to it yourself (starts around 8:20 of the video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ZEgJ0oo3OA8

[BlueDragon]

I didn't say "the protestors were as gentle as lambs", nor in any way portrayed them to be so.

How about dealing with what I did show -- like Dr. Bogomolets being badly misquoted.

Start there, then we can go on to some of the other. In fact --- in the link I provided, Bogomolets HERSELF provides some additional counter-point as to what she sees as the not-so-good among the political "side" of things the "protestors" almost by default (in opposing the corrupt Yanukovych) were forced to support as alternative to Yanukovych, his cast and crew of thieves, and Russia --who had been backing Yanukovych.

Why mention police escalating by using stronger ammo, without mentioning protesters were also increasingly using guns?

Because that's the way it went down -- then was lied about, with nobody on the Berkut side of the equation taking responsibility (Yanukovych ran away, when it didn't work, even if he himself did not order it)-- and it is looking like Yanukovych and the Russians have been attempting to blame-shift themselves entirely into being "the good guys".

Ask those in Kiev, who is worse. Ask Dr. Bogomolets.

I don't know that the protestors had all that many guns. I saw a only a few previously, and in various news sources, not any that I can recall prior to there being deaths on the "protestors" side of things, particularly late in Feb.

After the gloves came off and the Berkut went heavy, then there were pics of the protesters with a few guns. I saw a shotgun or two, a handgun, and a few air rifles (which can injure or even kill, in the right hands). The scoped rifle seen in the clip you gave link for --- I am pretty sure is an air rifle.

I know these are;

While the Berkut had been using these-- since some time in Jan., after "protest" itself was outlawed by Yanukovych.

By Feb. 18, the Berkut had started with the conventional ammo, early in the morning, I think. Prior to that...some protestors had been killed...and maybe a small number of Berkut? Around about the 18 of Feb., that's when the protesters suffered gunshots by the hundred (a couple of hundred +, maybe more) with 70-80 being killed outright.

You can show me different, if you like.

[BlueDragon]

Listen mR. -- that video doesn't have the Dr. herself saying anything-- if it's the same one that's been going around with the 'hacked' phone call between the Estonian Prime Minister and an EU official. The Estonian in that one, is giving second-hand hearsay evidence...which is refuted by the article I gave link for. Deal with it.p> I provided link where she is quoted by a news agency as saying contrary to "she said that the same snipers were killing both cops and protesters" but that's a neat trick you pulled ---sending me to a youtube vid where I have to "sign in".

SCREW THAT.

[Mount Athos]

The only thing your comments tell me is that you are blindly biased as the fellow who wrote this article.

Who hired the snipers at the end? How do you know?

The standard investigative technique is to ask “who benefits”.

Well, who benefited from the snipers killing people?

The rapidly seen result was the unconstitutional replacement of the democratically elected leader of Ukraine, replaced by a western backed interim leader.

Which benefited the new coalition, and their western supporters.
That’s not conclusive, but it certainly is grounds for legitimate suspicion.

Yet somehow you don’t even consider the possibility that it was them.
I don’t pretend to know who hired them. You do.

Why is your presentation so one sided, showing only concern for protesters and none at all for police?
You ok with them being burned alive by molotovs, hit with heavy rocks, beaten with clubs, and shot?

[BlueDragon]

You are still failing to deal with what I did bring --- while making up all sorts of motives for what I have not.

Once again, I'll mention that the Dr.'s testimony provides some counterpoint.

Try going to that article and reading it.

I hear her loud and clear. That should show that I'm not as 'biased' as you are saying.

Besides --- in a situation not without some complexity --- must I write an extensive balanced thesis with each comment?

Just where do YOU get off, seeming to demand that I do so?

[varmintman]

Listen mR....

Stopped reading at that point.

[BlueDragon]

Stopped reading? What a COWARD.