Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Investigators Suspect Missing Airlines Plane Flew On for Hours (Update!)
The Wall Street Journal ^ | March 13, 2014 | Andy Pasztor And Jon Ostrower

Posted on 03/13/2014 1:56:01 PM PDT by CedarDave

Investigators Believe Plane Flew On for Total of Up to Five Hours

U.S. investigators suspect that Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 stayed in the air for up to four hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, according to two people familiar with the details, raising the possibility that the plane could have flown on for hundreds of additional miles under conditions that remain murky.

The investigators believe the plane flew for a total of up to five hours, according to these people, based on analysis of signals sent by the Boeing 777's satellite-communication link designed to automatically transmit the status of certain onboard systems to the ground.

Throughout the roughly four hours after the jet dropped from civilian radar screens, these people said, the link operated in a kind of standby mode and sought to establish contact with a satellite or satellites. These transmissions did not include data, they said, but the periodic contacts indicate to investigators that the plane was still intact and believed to be flying.

Corrections & Amplifications U.S. investigators suspect Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 flew for hours past the time it reached its last confirmed location, based on an analysis of signals sent through the plane's satellite-communication link designed to automatically transmit the status of onboard systems, according to people familiar with the matter. An earlier version of this article incorrectly said investigators based their suspicions on signals from monitoring systems embedded in the plane's Rolls-Royce PLC engines and described that process.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: iran; malaysia; mh370; waronterror
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-97 next last
Full article title:

U.S. Investigators Suspect Missing Malaysia Airlines Plane Flew On for Hours

1 posted on 03/13/2014 1:56:01 PM PDT by CedarDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

Okay, this helps some. That bit about the engines transmitting for four more hours was denied early on by RR and Boeing but it still spread like wildfire.

This thing could well be on land somewhere. Note, I didn’t say it landed but simply that it could be ashore somewhere.


2 posted on 03/13/2014 1:59:14 PM PDT by FAA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

Uhn huh

And there are records of unconfirmed blips from the other air radars in the area.

We had no assets in the area that recorded anything?

Okay...


3 posted on 03/13/2014 1:59:39 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FAA

The key to this “mystery” is to find it, before it finds us.


4 posted on 03/13/2014 2:01:05 PM PDT by C210N (When people fear government there is tyranny; when government fears people there is liberty)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

I get the feeling there is MUCH more going on here than the Malaysian Government wants to say.

Not being said in the hyperbolic western press is that the government went after, and convicted, several opposition leaders on what many believe are trumped-up charges, from Sodomy to Sedition, in the last few months.


5 posted on 03/13/2014 2:02:09 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FAA

I read a report earlier that said there were only two 30-minute engine data transmissions - around take off and approaching cruising altitude.


6 posted on 03/13/2014 2:05:45 PM PDT by CedarDave (Obama - "That's the good thing as a President, I can do whatever I want" (02/10/14 declaration))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave
I keep thinking that this sounds similar to the Payne Stewart incident, where a sudden decompression of the cabin happened, immediately killing everyone on board. However, that doesn't explain why the transponder was turned off.

Where is Columbo when we need him?

7 posted on 03/13/2014 2:06:14 PM PDT by GreenHornet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FAA

If they can determine which satellites and a time stamp, they should be able to deduce course direction.


8 posted on 03/13/2014 2:08:37 PM PDT by CedarDave (Obama - "That's the good thing as a President, I can do whatever I want" (02/10/14 declaration))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave
4 hours at 500 mph — incredibly large search area
9 posted on 03/13/2014 2:11:00 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave
Look for it at a remote landing strip in I R A N......................
10 posted on 03/13/2014 2:12:21 PM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave
I read a report earlier that said there were only two 30-minute engine data transmissions - around take off and approaching cruising altitude.

That is exactly what Malaysian Airways has reported - there were two and only two data transmissions that they knew about - takeoff and cruise. They know of no others - the speculation is contagious.

Those engines don't transmit continuously - they transmit at significant events or every 30 minutes.

Not sure if there's a way to turn that off from the cockpit. If there is, then the hijacking theory still has legs.

If not, then there's no way to fly for 4+ more hours without that data being transmitted, and no reason (that I can see) for RR or Boeing or Malaysian Airways to cover it up.

that means nosedive or massive explosion.

11 posted on 03/13/2014 2:13:07 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

They probably already have, but are not telling us because it would have global ramifications.............I R A N..........Hacked Drone..................sound familiar?

Imagine if the world found out that ALL 777 or similar aircraft could be electronically hijacked with no warning........


12 posted on 03/13/2014 2:14:34 PM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: GreenHornet
I keep thinking that this sounds similar to the Payne Stewart incident, where a sudden decompression of the cabin happened, immediately killing everyone on board. However, that doesn't explain why the transponder was turned off.

Investigators of the Payne Stewart incident never concluded the speed of the decompression - whether it was slow or rapid. A commercial airliner's oxygen systems are automatic and should deploy when the cabin pressure exceeds a certain altitude - something not required of private jets. They also deploy for the pilots. At 35,000' the time of useful consciousness is from 30 to 60 seconds.

A rapid decompression could reduce that by half, though, if air is forced out of the lungs due to the decompression - source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_useful_consciousness

13 posted on 03/13/2014 2:15:21 PM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Has anyone seen my tagline? It was here yesterday. I seem to have misplaced it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

That’s at least 3500 miles. Not bloody likely, considering they’d have to fly over India, who might notice.


14 posted on 03/13/2014 2:16:02 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: IYAS9YAS
I keep thinking that this sounds similar to the Payne Stewart incident, where a sudden decompression of the cabin happened, immediately killing everyone on board. However, that doesn't explain why the transponder was turned off. Investigators of the Payne Stewart incident never concluded the speed of the decompression - whether it was slow or rapid. A commercial airliner's oxygen systems are automatic and should deploy when the cabin pressure exceeds a certain altitude - something not required of private jets. They also deploy for the pilots. At 35,000' the time of useful consciousness is from 30 to 60 seconds.

A rapid decompression could reduce that by half, though, if air is forced out of the lungs due to the decompression - source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_useful_consciousness

Thanks for the info.I'm just speculating here, and will be the frst to admit I know very little about aviation. This whole situation is just very bizarre.

15 posted on 03/13/2014 2:21:44 PM PDT by GreenHornet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

The FAA’s worldwide will probably have the ATC/ADS-B transponders and CPDLC locked down can’t be turned off by the crew, it will be almost impossible to steal a big airplane in the future.


16 posted on 03/13/2014 2:27:55 PM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

Nailed it.


17 posted on 03/13/2014 2:28:04 PM PDT by Rich21IE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: FAA

Here is a link to the WSJ’s streaming coverage - very useful updates:

http://stream.wsj.com/story/malaysia-airlines-flight-370/SS-2-475558/?mod=MAstream


18 posted on 03/13/2014 2:28:35 PM PDT by CedarDave (Obama - "That's the good thing as a President, I can do whatever I want" (02/10/14 declaration))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

I think Boeing and Rolls Royce would categorically deny everything just in case their equipment was at fault. Lawsuits could cost them…how much for all those passengers? In the billions?


19 posted on 03/13/2014 2:28:50 PM PDT by Veto! (Opinions freely dispensed as advice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GreenHornet
I keep thinking that this sounds similar to the Payne Stewart incident, where a sudden decompression of the cabin happened, immediately killing everyone on board.

I also recall that Greek airline accident about ten years ago when the cabin pressurization got set on "manual," and caused everybody on board to black out. Since the autopilot was set, the aircraft just continued to fly until it ran out of fuel and crashed. Of course in that case they were still able to track the plane.

20 posted on 03/13/2014 2:29:33 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

Too far.


21 posted on 03/13/2014 2:29:57 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

i am beginning to believe someone stole it. explains no crash, no transponder. pity the folks on that plane.


22 posted on 03/13/2014 2:31:19 PM PDT by Donnafrflorida (Thru HdredscottIM all things are possible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Izzy Dunne
If not, then there's no way to fly for 4+ more hours without that data being transmitted, and no reason (that I can see) for RR or Boeing or Malaysian Airways to cover it up.
That means nosedive or massive explosion.

That's pretty much my take on it; something catastrophic along those lines; obviously the most logical conclusion. They should be able to estimate where the wreckage is and do a thorough search and eventually find what's left. I have a feeling that there's some incompetence going on here; that people have looked in the right area, missed or overlooked things, and then concluded that they wouldn't have to search that area again.

23 posted on 03/13/2014 2:34:02 PM PDT by Mr Ramsbotham (Laws against sodomy are honored in the breech.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

If the airplane’s satellite link was working, why wasn’t the Rolls-Royce engine health monitor also working?


24 posted on 03/13/2014 2:34:19 PM PDT by cynwoody
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave
This was just posted on twitter: PzFeed Top News ‏@PzFeed 1m BREAKING NEWS: #MH370 sent signals to satellite for hours, Malaysia Airlines wasn't subscribed to the service
25 posted on 03/13/2014 2:34:45 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xone

Not enough fuel?...........


26 posted on 03/13/2014 2:35:31 PM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: GreenHornet

Where is Tom Clancy I say? =)


27 posted on 03/13/2014 2:35:46 PM PDT by Patriot Babe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: GreenHornet

Exactly..dead people can’t turn off transponders..and you have to be extremely knowledgeable about planes to do so, so the pilots(Or someone else, like a hijacker) had to have turned them off..remember, all of the 9/11 hijackers, the second they took control of those planes what is the first thing they did, turn OFF the transponders


28 posted on 03/13/2014 2:36:22 PM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

Iran would be out of range and they already have access to large aircraft. It would have to be a smaller terrorist group with control over a remote airstrip large enough for a 777. Then they would need to be able to refuel it if they are going to use it as a weapon.


29 posted on 03/13/2014 2:39:10 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: GreenHornet

>> decompression ... happened, immediately killing everyone on board...

Well, it doesn’t “immediately kill”. TUC - time of useful consciousness is altitude dependent. At 35,000 feet, you can go from 30 to 60 seconds before you enter la-la land. A rapid decompression (i.e. a BIG hole in the fuselage) can cut that time in half. But still plenty of time to get over the “WTF was that?” and put on the mask.

FAA regulations require one pilot to wear the O2 mask above FL350 (35,000’). This is routinely ignored by aircrews.


30 posted on 03/13/2014 2:39:22 PM PDT by QBFimi (/...o.o/.o...ooo/...o.o...o/ooo/...o.o/.o/ooo.//o..o./.o.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

So here is a what if scenario question.

If you wanted to bring down the entire airline industry and terrorize the global flying population for islamic terrorist purposes, why not hijack a redeye airliner, fly it westward under the cover of darkness, land it somewhere in an islamic country, and start beheading the passengers, one by one after several days? And start posting the videos on Youtube?

I know it sounds crazy but i just went through nineteen threads on the airliners.net forum and the fact that this was a redeye does not seem to get a lot of attention. The passengers would never know they were over a huge body of water of water in the dead of night. During the day people would start asking questions and raise hell.

The whole scenario of the 777 crashing somewhere does not jive with the transponder being turned off. I can’t help but think that we have an entire new terror scenario here.


31 posted on 03/13/2014 2:40:50 PM PDT by bergmeid
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: hamboy
The FAA’s worldwide will probably have the ATC/ADS-B transponders and CPDLC locked down can’t be turned off by the crew, it will be almost impossible to steal a big airplane in the future.

My question is, why wasn't this done after 9-11? I don't see a reason to ever shut off the transponder while the plane is moving...why is there a manual switch?
32 posted on 03/13/2014 2:41:24 PM PDT by rottndog ('Live Free Or Die' Ain't just words on a bumber sticker...or a tagline.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: hamboy

Doubtful, from my view. If that system is causing a fire or electrical overload, you have to have the capability to shut it off. That’s why all these systems have off switches anyway... safety. Doesn’t matter if its the O2 system, if it is a risk to the safety of the aircraft, there has to be a know to disable it.


33 posted on 03/13/2014 2:41:51 PM PDT by Aqua225 (Realist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Moonman62

It’s a big world out there............................


34 posted on 03/13/2014 2:42:40 PM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: bergmeid

B I N G O ..................................


35 posted on 03/13/2014 2:43:34 PM PDT by Red Badger (LIberal is an oxymoron......................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: cynwoody
If the airplane’s satellite link was working, why wasn’t the Rolls-Royce engine health monitor also working?

Exactly UNLESS they were separate services. See post 25.

36 posted on 03/13/2014 2:45:32 PM PDT by CedarDave (Obama - "That's the good thing as a President, I can do whatever I want" (02/10/14 declaration))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Aqua225; hamboy; rottndog

know->knob


37 posted on 03/13/2014 2:45:37 PM PDT by Aqua225 (Realist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger

Added about 700 miles to the trip to Beijing. It’s about an 1.5 hours over the planned trip at cruise airspeed. But the plane took off, wasted an hour at least before heading west. If it dropped much below 30K, the planning data really cuts the range. Its 3200 miles to Iran.


38 posted on 03/13/2014 2:47:12 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: GreenHornet
Thanks for the info.I'm just speculating here, and will be the frst to admit I know very little about aviation. This whole situation is just very bizarre.

You're welcome.

I don't know much either, but have learned some from fellow Freepers in-the-know. You're absolutely correct, it is out there.

39 posted on 03/13/2014 2:48:17 PM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Has anyone seen my tagline? It was here yesterday. I seem to have misplaced it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Sarah Barracuda
you have to be extremely knowledgeable about planes to do so

Just someone who was trained to do it. Don't even have to tell them why, just do it.

40 posted on 03/13/2014 2:48:52 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

How deep is the deepest part of the Indian Ocean?


41 posted on 03/13/2014 2:49:18 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: IYAS9YAS

“Investigators of the Payne Stewart incident never concluded the speed of the decompression - whether it was slow or rapid. A commercial airliner’s oxygen systems are automatic and should deploy when the cabin pressure exceeds a certain altitude - something not required of private jets. They also deploy for the pilots. At 35,000’ the time of useful consciousness is from 30 to 60 seconds”

You are not familiar with FAA certification standards. I am type rated in several types of “private” jets and they all have automatic oxygen mask deployment. On the other hand, pilot’s oxygen masks do NOT deploy automatically. Pilot’s have quick donning oxygen masks.


42 posted on 03/13/2014 2:50:47 PM PDT by CFIIIMEIATP737
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: bergmeid
why not hijack a redeye airliner, fly it westward under the cover of darkness, land it somewhere in an islamic country, and start beheading the passengers, one by one after several days?

What country?

43 posted on 03/13/2014 2:51:02 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Aqua225

At least the ADS-B should be locked down, forget the squawking.


44 posted on 03/13/2014 2:51:32 PM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: rottndog
I don't see a reason to ever shut off the transponder while the plane is moving...why is there a manual switch?

Never been a pilot I'd guess. It is powered by the plane's electrical system, subject to fire, isolate so you have power for other systems.

45 posted on 03/13/2014 2:52:47 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: CFIIIMEIATP737
You are not familiar with FAA certification standards. I am type rated in several types of “private” jets and they all have automatic oxygen mask deployment. On the other hand, pilot’s oxygen masks do NOT deploy automatically. Pilot’s have quick donning oxygen masks.

Thank you for the correction.

46 posted on 03/13/2014 2:52:48 PM PDT by IYAS9YAS (Has anyone seen my tagline? It was here yesterday. I seem to have misplaced it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: CedarDave

Without any electronic contact in any way shape or form?


47 posted on 03/13/2014 2:55:07 PM PDT by SkyDancer (I Believe In The Law Until It Intereferes With Justice.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: QBFimi

“Well, it doesn’t “immediately kill”. TUC - time of useful consciousness is altitude dependent. At 35,000 feet, you can go from 30 to 60 seconds before you enter la-la land. A rapid decompression (i.e. a BIG hole in the fuselage) can cut that time in half. But still plenty of time to get over the “WTF was that?” and put on the mask.”

Right idea, wrong terms. The big hole would lead to an explosive decompression, not a rapid decompression.


48 posted on 03/13/2014 2:55:19 PM PDT by CFIIIMEIATP737
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Veto!

Aircraft and engine manufacturers have own engineers working alongside with any airline’s maintenance sites as consultants or technical representatives. They have access to everything from ACARS data, on-board and maintenance diagnostics, etc., Mr. Hussein, the Malaysia transport minister, may not be aware of.


49 posted on 03/13/2014 3:04:12 PM PDT by hamboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: tcrlaf

I’m afraid that false accusations, particularly of sodomy, have been SOP since Mahathir’s time.


50 posted on 03/13/2014 3:05:00 PM PDT by JimSEA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-97 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson